Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817: Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, **he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it.* Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. *
*I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. **And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.' **Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son of Marry was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.' (O people!) I have been informed that a speaker amongst you says, 'By Allah, if 'Umar should die, I will give the pledge of allegiance to such-and-such person.' One should not deceive oneself by saying that the pledge of allegiance given to Abu Bakr was given suddenly and it was successful. No doubt, it was like that, but Allah saved (the people) from its evil, and there is none among you who has the qualities of Abu Bakr. Remember that whoever gives the pledge of allegiance to anybody among you without consulting the other Muslims, neither that person, nor the person to whom the pledge of allegiance was given, are to be supported, lest they both should be killed. *

Ayesha also testified to a missing verse Umar mentioned in shaih bukhari (on stoning)

"When the verses Rajm [Stoning] and ayah Rezah Kabirdescended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper while we were mourning."

  1. Sunan Ibne Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Published Karachi.
  2. Musnad Imam Ahmad, Volume 6, Page 269, Published Beirut.
  3. Taweel Mukhtalif Al hadees, Page 310, Published Beirut

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. **There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was:"Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased."**
(Sahih Bukhari 4.69):

Malik's Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.8.26:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from al-Qaqa ibn Hakim that Abu Yunus, the mawla of A'isha, umm al-muminin said, *"A'isha ordered me to write out a Qur'an for her. She said, 'When you reach this ayat, let me know, "Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah."' **When I reached it I told her, and she dictated to me, 'Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.' A'isha said, 'I heard it from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.'"*

Malik's Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.8.27:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that Amr ibn Rafi said, "I was writing a Qur'an for Hafsa, umm al-muminin, and she said, *'When you reach this ayat, let me know, "Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah."' When I reached it I told her and she dictated to me, 'Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.****'"*

This is an attempt to validate stoning adulterers and the 5 prayers, both never mentioned in the Quran but was made into Shariah Law by the sects.

In fact some Sunni hadiths say 200 verses of Surat Ahzab is missing.

Al-Muttaqi 'Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book "Mukhtasar Kanz al-'Ummal" printed on the margin of Imam Ahmad's Musnad, Volume 2, page 2, in his hadith about chapter 33, said that Ibn Urdawayh reported that Hudhayfah said:* 'Umar said to me 'How many verses are contained in the chapter of al-Ahzab?' I said, '72 or 73 verses.' He said it was almost as long as the chapter of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it there was the verse of stoning***.

Suyuti narrates from Hadhrath Ayesha:
**"During the life of the Prophet (s), Surah Ahzab was read with 200 verses, when Uthman collected the verses we only found that amount that is found in the current Qur'an".
Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 180, al Itqan Volume 2 page 25

Now the Sunnis here will suddenly change their views about the Quran's completeness now they know Sunni sources itself says the Quran we have today is missing verses.

Look who is talking!

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Although I dont subscribe to the Koranist view as stated in this thread, however, i am quite clear on the ambiguities and confusions that ahadith create. If the God revealed and Prophet (SAW) declared that the religion is complete then the religion is complete. All that followed was the agenda of power grabbers and manipulators.

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I hope you realize Hadith and Sunnah are just records of the Prophet's life and how lived, how he behaved, what he said, etc.

Again, most authentic and widely accepted Ahadith DO NOT contradict Quran, and those scholars who spent their entire lives studying Islam/Quran, and scrutinizing every peace of saying (Hadith) did their research in conjunction with the Holy Quran.

Quranists or whatever the fancy name maybe, must realize that Hadiths and Sunnah do not clash with Quran, rather are in agreement with it. Why is it so hard to accept that Sunnah is the essence of Quran when you apply it in your life.

When you follow the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), you are living according to Allah's will, and how Quran prescribes one to behave and live. It's not rocket science.

But these two jokers would have you discredit and totally disregard the way of Prophet, the very man who was chosen to deliver us the religion we adore today.

submitmj: Give it a rest man. It's apparent you just like to copy/paste out of context verses, and do not extend the courtesy to speak of the Prophet (s.a.w) in a manner any muslim would speak. You do realize we're urged to (s.a.w. or pbuh) everytime we say the prophet's name, right? Or does your "teacher" not tell you that? :)

So no one's buying your jumbled up version of Islam. Please, learn your Islam from scholars who have spent their lives studying the faith. You'd be doing yourself a great service.

May Allah guide you and your almost alike buddy. I pray for you both.

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I am not discrediting Prophet Muhammad, because hadith and sunnah ARE NOT FROM PROPHET MUHAMMAD!! They came well after he died. What came out of Muhammad's mouth was the QUran, NOT hadith and sunnah.

[QUOTE]

submitmj: Give it a rest man. It's apparent you just like to copy/paste out of context verses, and do not extend the courtesy to speak of the Prophet (s.a.w) in a manner any muslim would speak. You do realize we're urged to (s.a.w. or pbuh) everytime we say the prophet's name, right? Or does your "teacher" not tell you that? :)

[/QUOTE]

Your are correct. The teacher of the Quran (55:1-2), GOD, has commanded muslims not to make any distinctions among any of GOD's messengers. In addition, the teacher of the Quran (GOD) has made it very clear that any additional rules or laws outside of GOD's laws in Quran is a satanic innovation. Your law is not a law of GOD. Yes, we are to respect GOD's messengers, but there is no such Quranic law stating we have to say 's.a.w. or pbuh.

[QUOTE]

So no one's buying your jumbled up version of Islam. Please, learn your Islam from scholars who have spent their lives studying the faith. You'd be doing yourself a great service.

[/QUOTE]

[Quran 9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Salam, you are out of your mind. We can’t even understand the Holy Quraan without the Hadees. Please don’t mislead people. If you have any questions. Ask the Mufti on this link.
.:: Ask The Mufti :: Ask Your Sharai Questions ::.](http://mufti.faizaneattar.net/)

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It just maybe that beloved Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) spent his life delivering the message of Islam, and did not have enough time to write his own memoirs for individuals like you to take comfort in.

The rest of us are content with ahadith that are credible.

It just maybe that you've made yourself believe that Muslims are equating Sunnah and Hadith at the level of Quran. Get that confusion out of your mind. No one believes that, but a large majority of muslims DO follow the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad because like i said before, to follow in the way of and to live like the Prophet (s.a.w.) lived is living according to Quran.

Unless now you'll come out (though i wn't be surprised) and say that Prophet (s.a.w.) didn't exactly live according to Quran and Allah's will?

I am surely quit of you. Because it's like talking to a wall. You continue to parrot the same, and misinterpret verses of the holy Quran, and while doing so you also expect everyone to indulge in your circular arguments that are founded on a flimsy and flawed understanding.

The rest of your post was not worth responding to because again you're going out of the way to match what i said and pin it against verses of Quran. Nice try...

Timepass - September 2013
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You give so much love and praise to Prophet Muhammad, the created. Why don't you give that love and praise to GOD, the CREATOR. The Quran does say all praise belongs to GOD alone. You even put Muhammad in your Shahada thereby violating the first pillar of Islam as stated clearly in Quran 3:18.

[Quran 3:18] GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.

Of course, you will likely say I mistranslating this verse. However, it is a VERY clear verse, just like all the other verses I have posted to support the truth.

Question...Why do you mention Muhammad beside GOD in the Shahada?

[QUOTE]

Unless now you'll come out (though i wn't be surprised) and say that Prophet (s.a.w.) didn't exactly live according to Quran and Allah's will?

[/QUOTE]

Are saying that Muhammad was infallible? Are you saying Muhammad is perfect and, thus, did not make mistakes?

peace
submitmj

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Do you believe GOD when HE tells you the Quran is easy to learn?

[54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

Do you believe GOD when HE tells you HE is the teacher of Quran?

[55:1] The Most Gracious.
[55:2] Teacher of the Quran.

Do you believe GOD when HE says Muhammad was forbidden from giving his own explanations?

[75:16] Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
[75:17] It is we who will collect it into Quran.
[75:18] Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
[75:19] Then it is we who will explain it.

Do you believe GOD when HE says Muhammad was forbidden from issuing any religious teachings?

[69:40] This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
[69:41] Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
[69:42] Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
[69:43] A revelation from the Lord of the universe.
[69:44] Had he uttered any other teachings.
[69:45] We would have punished him.
[69:46] We would have stopped the revelations to him.

Do you believe what GOD is telling you or not?

Peace
submitmj

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Ladies and gentlemen, sisters and brothers, elderly and children!

Lets not give our misguided brother, who is obviously just trolling, an ear, for he and "pal" only seek to misguide and spread fitnah. We are commanded to revere Quran as the holiest and absolutely complete scripture. Until this day no one has been able to take up, or stand upto the challenge of Allah (swt) in the following verses of the holy Quran: And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it (min mithlihi) and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful. But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers. S. 2:23-24
Or do they say: He has forged it? Say: Then bring a chapter like this (mithlihi) and invite whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful. S. 10:38
Or, do they say: He has forged it. Say: Then bring ten forged chapters like it (mithlihi) and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful. S. 11:13
Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran (bimithlihi hatha al-Qurani), they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others. S. 17:88
Or do they say: He has forged it. Nay! they do not believe. Then let them bring an announcement like it (mithlihi) if they are truthful. S. 52:33-34

Muslims also must follow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) for He was the chosen man of his tribe, his people, to bring us the message of Islam. Give no attention to the trolls who come here trying to twist and misinterpret verses of Quran in hopes of misguiding muslims. The following verses of the same holy book make it absolutely clear to us to respect the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.). And by following the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) we seek to earn Allah's blessings and pleasure, and surely our reward lies with Allah alone. He alone is the judge of us all, and knows all that we do, and all that we hide in our chests.[INDENT] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. (An-Nisaa' 4:59)

He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds). (An-Nisaa' 4:80)

What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah. for Allah is strict in Punishment.(Al-Hashr 59:7)

Make not the calling among you of the Messenger as your calling one of another. Allah indeed knows those who steal away from among you, concealing themselves. So let those who go against his order beware, lest a trial afflict them or there befall them a painful chastisement. (An-Nur 24:63)
**
(*With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.)* (An-Nahl 16:44)

(But nay, by thy lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission.) (An-Nisaa' 4:65)

Please have no doubts that whatever this person claims is unforunately a result of misguidance. May Allah (swt) guide this brother/sister, and show him the correct path.

PS: See how easy it is to copy/paste. :)

[/INDENT]

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The Qur’an speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:

(a) Allah says: “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah…” (an-Nisa’: 80) Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger…” (an-Nisa’: 59)

(b) Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says: “…And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” (an-Nur: 63)

(c) Allah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” (an-Nisa’: 65)

(d) Allah commands His servants to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life…” (al-Anfal: 24)

(e) Allah also commands His servants to refer all disputes to him: “(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger…” (an-Nisa’: 59)

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"And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you;" (5:48)

Surely We have revealed the Book to you with the truth that you may judge between people by means of that which Allah has shown you; and be not an advocate on behalf of the treacherous." (4:105)

"And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit." (16:89)

"Allah is witness between you and me; and this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches." (6:19)

So the prophet settled matters and disputes based on the Quran. As far as everyday matters and specific matters then it was for those who were there with him just like those in charge of authority are for us now:

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

So the questions like booty distribution of settling matters on the ground this was for the prophet and other people designated for that. But I am talking about now and not back then when the prophet was alive. All the prophets are to be obeyed:

Al-Shuara(the poets) Chapter

105 The people of Noah rejected the apostles.

106 Behold, their brother Noah said to them: "Will ye not fear (Allah)?

107 "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust:

108 "So fear Allah, and obey me.

109 "No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds:

110 "So fear Allah, and obey me."

123 The 'Ad (people) rejected the apostles.

124 Behold, their brother Hud said to them: "Will ye not fear (Allah)?

125 "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust:

126 "So fear Allah and obey me.

127 "No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds.

128 "Do ye build a landmark on every high place to amuse yourselves?

129 "And do ye get for yourselves fine buildings in the hope of living therein (for ever)?

130 "And when ye exert your strong hand, do ye do it like men of absolute power?

131 "Now fear Allah, and obey me.

141 The Thamud (people) rejected the apostles.

142 Behold, their brother Salih said to them: "Will you not fear (Allah)?

143 "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust.

144 "So fear Allah, and obey me.

145 "No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds.

146 "Will ye be left secure, in (the enjoyment of) all that ye have here?-

147 "Gardens and Springs,

148 "And corn-fields and date-palms with spathes near breaking (with the weight of fruit)?

149 "And ye carve houses out of (rocky) mountains with great skill.

150 "But fear Allah and obey me;

160 The people of Lut rejected the apostles.

161 Behold, their brother Lut said to them: "Will ye not fear (Allah)?

162 "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust.

163 "So fear Allah and obey me.

176 The Companions of the Wood rejected the apostles.

177 Behold, Shu'aib said to them: "Will ye not fear (Allah)?

178 "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust.

179 "So fear Allah and obey me.

All the prophets are to be obeyed and all are an inspiration and an example to us but they all are humans and they all follow God's revelation:

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. 12.111

Here the Quran says about itself : "a detailed exposition of all things"

These verses you quoted do not validate taking anything that contradict the Quran or adds matters of deen the Quran never said. The hadith do contradict the Quran and do introduce religious laws not oitlined in the Quran. So what would be the purpose of the Quran then?

There is something I would like to add. When we say "Obey God and obey the messenger", this can only be done when God and His messenger are saying the same things. You can not obey the Quran and the sectarian Sunnah because they contradict one another. This is why Al Shafi believed the Sunnah abrogates the Quran but never vice versa. This means what they are really doing is just following THEIR Sunnah and not the Quran. You can't obey two sources that contradict one another.

Also not all Quranist are ideologues, many Quranist accept hadiths if it does not contradict the Quran. They just do not follow hadiths blindly. They compare them with the Quran. Many Quranist perform many of the rituals Sunnis perform, they just do not see it as the only way to worship God as the Quran recognized the Jewish community and the Christian community also. Rituals are a means to an end and not an end by itself:

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. 2.177

Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. 2.62

So it is not that all Quranist believe in one thing. Many Quranist accept hadiths, they just don't follow them like the sects do. Many Quranist pray 5 times a day, others pray 3 and others 2. It depends on how they interpret the Quran. But they all agree not to make something binding that the Quran did not spell out explicitly. Thats why Quranist tolerate each other much more than the sects do. Its not how your perform a ritual thats important but why and to whom. The pagans also prayed and offered sacrifices and performed pilgrimages, but they did it for other gods and not for God only.

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[QUOTE]

If you would look at the Risala of Imam Shafi you would know even after 150 years after the prophet nobody heard of the concept of Sunnah let alone hadith. Everybody knew the Quran and they also knew about the rituals like haj and salat etc. But they never heard of anything called Sunnah or hadith.

[/QUOTE]

I dont know how you can draw this conclusion the EXAMPLE of the Prophet was used as a precedent the day he died , and since then the khulafa rashideen used to justify their conduct based on the PRECEDENT left by the Prophet.
You can give it whatever name you want but that is the basis of sunnah. Writing hadith became more of an urgency when most hadith narraters began tio grow old and died.It was the disciples or pupils of notable companions who became the first hadith compilers.

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[QUOTE]

What came out of Muhammad's mouth was the QUran, NOT hadith and sunnah.

[/QUOTE]

Thats the big question how can you prove that except on the basis of blind faith alone ?

WHo was Muhammad (saw) ? where was he born ? how he lived ? how was his life like ? should we take then Quran as an instructional manual which can be taken literally and quoted out of context as needed ?

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Furthermore can the Quran only people tell us how Quran was compiled ( without relying on history and hadith )

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

I think vigoratus’s post above pretty much summed it all up.

The rest are just being cutters and pasters! Did that make sense ? :wink:

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Its not that simple because the people who narrate hadiths from the prophet in many Sunni hadiths are not his close companions or the ones with him for a long time. Abu Hurreira probably narrates more hadiths that the 4 caliphs and the muhajiroon combined. Their is also questions like what about the friday khutbah? We see only a couple of sentences for the supposed friday khutbah of the prophet even though he stayed in Medina for over 10 years. We also have ver few friday khutbahs from the 4 caliphs. Its not that simple. Plus the real question is the discrepancy between the Quran and the hadiths. I am not saying that all the hadiths are false, but all are not true and many sectarian teachings clearly had political and authoritative leanings. The Shia can claim the same thing your claiming and even with the closest disciples and companions they differ.

However what makes Shafi so unique was his concept of Sunnah was unknown to the masses. So to say that many of the students of early hadith writers or hadith narrators were passing away is also an admittance that it was never in the public sphere as the Quran was. You simply can not equate the Quran's distribution and availability in the masses with the hadiths. Shafi himself says that the knowledge of the Sunnah is in the hands of a few. But why would it be in the hands of the few? Did it get lost along the way? Why was it not preserved and made public as the Quran was? So these are all important questions but to me the main issue is the contradiction between the Quran and the hadiths.

Let me put it this way:

If I was to give the Quran to someone in an island and come to him after 30 years, what kind of Islam would he be following? Would he even be considered a Muslim by the sects? What role does the Quran play when the sects can introduce consensus the Quran did not participate in? What role is the Quran playing for these sects? So all these are important questions. We may never know the answer but to say that the Sunnah was understood like the Quran is clearly impossible as Al Shafi was not introducing the Quran to his audience but the hadiths. It is true that Al Shafi spoke of the rituals like salat and haj, but its hadiths that was an innovation at his time. The question he was answering could never be asked by a Sunni or Shia today because they would believe he apostated.

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[QUOTE]
Plus the real question is the discrepancy between the Quran and the hadiths. I am not saying that all the hadiths are false, but all are not true and many sectarian teachings clearly had political and authoritative leanings.
[/QUOTE]

I dont think any reasonable person would doubt that , infact the rise of hadith criticism itself shows that hadith compilers were themselves wellaware of this danger and took steps to safeguard them.

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

these are loaded questions may I recommend this link which replies to some of them
A Brief History Of Hadith Collection And Criticism: A Lecture By Dr. Jonathan Brown

there are books too many of them by western scholars which address this issue if you are interested I will post their names

How many languages you can speak ???
How many languages you can speak ???
How many languages you can speak ???
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[QUOTE]

If I was to give the Quran to someone in an island and come to him after 30 years, what kind of Islam would he be following? Would he even be considered a Muslim by the sects?

[/QUOTE]

if he follows Quran and believes in finality of Prophethood he is a muslim , thats the consensus of scholars.

Consider this vast majority of sunni scholars consider 12ers as muslims even though they might differ with them sharply in many many aspects of religion.But Qadiyanis and Ismailis are Not muslims ....
its not about oneupmanship ( atleast in theory) but about principles

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Yes but they would not consider that person a Muslim as most Sunni scholars do not consider Quranist as Muslims and the reason is the discrepancy between the Quran and hadith and these sects follow their hadiths.

As far as Brown, I have seen some of his lectures. He is not coming from a Quranic view point. He has some interesting things to say but I am not too interested about the historic debate as I am about the contradiction between the Quran and the teachings of the sects.

If a person was to take his deen from the Quran how would he understand it?

What is the profile of the prophet in the Quran?

What are the goals and intentions of the Quran?

Then i look and compare that with what the sects teach and it is a HUGE difference. Especially when it comes to freedom, and individuality. I noticed the differences come mainly regarding these areas. If you wanted to create an orthodoxy and a theocracy and wanted to make it binding, the Sunnah can do that. You can never achieve that with the Quran. The Quran has no orthodoxy except in monotheism and righteousness and has no theocracy accept when the need arises and does not emphasize it. But when it comes to topics about God and prophets and deeds and rituals and judgement day, the Quran pours a lot of ink. The Quran does pour a lot of ink on marraige howoever. Thats one thing I noticed. But there is no way you can create a state out of the Quran since its not a legal book and their is no way to form a rigid orthodoxy since the Quran does not seem interested in religious protocol and formal rituals.

Look at the verses of the Quran for yourself:

Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West;* but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic*. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. 2.177

That is the Quran's way.