Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Society Religion & Philosophy
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You make claims like this when I have not taken anything out of context and you know it. Nevertheless, I put a post earlier that has been conveniently avoided. If you say I am taking things out of context, please answer my questions below.

Do you believe GOD when HE tells you the Quran is easy to learn?

[54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

Do you believe GOD when HE tells you HE is the teacher of Quran?

[55:1] The Most Gracious.
[55:2] Teacher of the Quran.

Do you believe GOD when HE says Muhammad was forbidden from giving his own explanations?

[75:16] Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
[75:17] It is we who will collect it into Quran.
[75:18] Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
[75:19] Then it is we who will explain it.

Do you believe GOD when HE says Muhammad was forbidden from issuing any religious teachings?

[69:40] This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
[69:41] Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
[69:42] Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
[69:43] A revelation from the Lord of the universe.
[69:44] Had he uttered any other teachings.
[69:45] We would have punished him.
[69:46] We would have stopped the revelations to him.

Do you believe what GOD is telling you or not?

The answer to the hadith & Sunnah questions rests on whether you believe GOD's revelations or not. It is really as simple as that. If you do not believe GOD you will turn to men. If you do believe GOD you will turn to Quran alone like Muhammad did. After all, the Quran is all Muhammad had to follow.

Peace
submitmj

Bait Bazi - September 2013
Bait Bazi - September 2013
102

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

submitmj please tell us:

1) Are you a so called Muslim?
2) Are you a christian?
3) Are you a jew?

After knowing these questions, we will be able to go further.

103

I follow and uphold the Quran alone the same way prophet Muhammad did. Therefore, I am Submitter (muslim in Arabic) according to the Quranic definition of what a muslim is.

Peace
submitmj

104

Then, if you are a muslim and submitter, please tell us:

1) How to pray according to Quran?
2) How to do hajj according to Quran?
3) How to fast according to Quran?
4) How to pay Zakat?

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Good question, Apple. I'm wondering the same thing...especially the point about namaz. Most of the Muslims are not giving top priority to hadith.......because they know that Quran cannot be compared to Allah's book. However, we do know that some hadith are less authentic and sound than others. People are not replacing the Quran with hadith.......rather authentic hadith can be used SUPPLEMENT our knowledge that we get from Quran. It will interesting to see how submitmj answers this question.

I just read an article saying that Allah taught Abraham the procedure for salaat, fasting, hajj, etc.....and that this knowledge was preserved and passed on by Abraham and his descendants from generation to generation. Now......in this case.........it means that knowledge can spread through **word of mouth. **So....isn't that what hadith and Sunnah are based on?

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Yes brother/sister!

These are actually Khawarej and Mu'tazela who want to put doubts in Islam and to divert the Muslims away from Islam. This is their target actually. Once they are able to remove the love of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) from our hearts then it is easy for them to move forward.

But InshAllah they will never succeed.

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^ Apples........you quoted my post before I could make a correction in it. I had by mistake typed that hadith receives top priority over Quran. What I had meant to say was that Quran receives top priority because it is Allah's word......and authentic hadith/sunnah can be used to supplement knowledge we get from the Quran. And I made that correction in my post a few moments ago.

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He has some interesting things to say but I am not too interested about the historic debate as I am about the contradiction between the Quran and the teachings of the sects.

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you cannot take things in vacumn and create a logic out of it , historical debate is at the heart of this question.It cannot be avoided

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Then i look and compare that with what the sects teach and it is a HUGE difference.
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the differences are mainly with regards to leadership of ummah.Differences in rituals are minor.Some of them are cultural,Furthermore simply having differences of opinion does not prove that both parties are wrong.Scholars past and present have been broadminded to accomadate other view points

[QUOTE]
Especially when it comes to freedom, and individuality. I noticed the differences come mainly regarding these areas. If you wanted to create an orthodoxy and a theocracy and wanted to make it binding, the Sunnah can do that. You can never achieve that with the Quran. The Quran has no orthodoxy except in monotheism and righteousness and has no theocracy accept when the need arises and does not emphasize it.
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Creating a theocratic state is the fundamental principal of Islam, thats the thing the Prophet did in medina ...he was the political leader, statesman, general , taxcollector and preacher.This example was lost after 30yrs sadly but that does not mean that its not part of the deen.

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you know ur logic is so similar to born again christians
Do you believe Jesus to be your savior yes or no ?

You have conveniently avoided my question ...is there any place for context in Quran ? or is the Quran to be followed like a robotic instructional manual ? if thats the case follow these verses here

8:60] You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.

9:14 Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers

*8:13*** That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment. 8:14 That (is the award), so taste it, and (know) that for disbelievers is the torment of the Fire. 8:15 O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.

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they are worse than khawij and mutazila they atleast were honest in their intentions for the most part.

This is just a thinly veiled conspiracy to destroy the concept of khilafa amongst muslims so that islam becomes impriosned to the mosque alone.'

Such people are Mushriks

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Your ignorance of Quran is demonstrated by such questions. ALL religious duties came through Abraham, NOT Muhammad. Muhammad was enjoined to follow the religion of Abraham which is why Quran consistently speaks of other messengers (ie: Jesus) doing their salat, zakat etc.

[16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

[21:72 -73] And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous. We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and HOW TO OBSERVE THE CONTACT PRAYERS (Salat)

So, clearly the religious duties were well established before Muhammad came. Although, I'm sure you will bash this statement too. However, it is not me you are mocking, it is GOD's revelations you disbelieve. The Quran is VERY clear the religious practices came via Abraham, whether you believe it or not.

Let me ask you a question.....Show me a hadith or Sunnah demonstrating how to perform the complete salat prayers? Exactly, you can't. Again, this brings us back to the same question. Who do you trust? GOD or humans?

submitmj

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Don't go here and there. Just answer my questions one by one in the light of Quran. What is the prophet Ibrahim(PBUH) way of PRAYERS, Fasting, Hajj and Zakat and how do you know about that????????????

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FROM THE QURAN! Don’t you read it?!?

[14:35] Recall that Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols.

[14:36] "My Lord, they have misled so many people. As for those who follow me, they belong with me. As for those who disobey me, You are Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[14:37] "Our Lord, I have settled part of my family in this plantless valley, at Your Sacred House. Our Lord, they are to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), so let throngs of people converge upon them, and provide for them all kinds of fruits, that they may be appreciative.

[14:38] "Our Lord, You know whatever we conceal and whatever we declare - nothing is hidden from GOD on earth, nor in the heavens.

[14:39] "Praise be to GOD for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers.

[14:40] "My Lord, make me one who consistently observes the Contact Prayers (Salat), and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.

The proof that Salat was already established through Abraham is found in 8:35, 9:54, 16:123, & 21:73. This most important duty in Islam (Submission) has been so severely distorted that the contact prayers (Salat) have become a practice in idolatry for the vast majority of Muslims. Although the Quran commands that our contact prayers must be devoted to God alone (20:14; 39:3, 45), today’s Muslims insist on commemorating “Muhammad and his family” and “Abraham and his family” during their prayers. This renders the prayers null and void (39:65).

I’ve answered you question with Quranic evidence the religious duties came via Abraham, and I can assure you he was not saying in his Shahada ‘Muhammad is the messenger of GOD’ because Muhammad wasn’t born yet.

Now, answer my question…. Show me the hadiths & Sunnah that demonstrates how to perform the salat prayers? Show your proof if you are truthful.

peace
submitmj

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^ submitmj can you show us how abraham pbuh performed his prayers ?

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I've answered you question with Quranic evidence the religious duties came via Abraham,

[/QUOTE]

That was not the question, we all agree that Muhammad pbuh brought the same religion as was brought by other Prophets but with minor variations.

but HOW these prayers were peformed by other prophets ? show us the nuts and bolts and the evidence for that

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Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Hadith

and more
http://muttaqun.com/aboutsalah.html

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You only talked about Salat and that also you didn’t mention how prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) Prayed Salat???All you mentioned are his “DUA”

Also please my other questions??? unanswered.

One of other fellow brother has answered your question but still more will come inshaAllah.

You can find detailed explanation about prophetic salah here:

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Thanks brother for your efforts. JazakAllah khair fiddunya wal akhira. Aamin.

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There is no mention of "how to pray" in the Torah and Gospel or Quran. We have this however:

*Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Those who are with him **are hard against the unbelievers merciful one to another. **You see them bowing, prostrating, seeking blessing, bounty and good pleasure (of God). Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel: as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows strong and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them it may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage(48:29)*

Genesis 17:1-4 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for Me, behold, My covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Deuteronomy 5:6-9 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before Me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 **Thou shalt not bow down thyself **unto them nor serve them...

Psalm 95:6 O come, **let us worship and bow down: let us kneel **before the Lord our Maker.

Revelations 7:11-12 And all the** angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and **fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Joshua 7:6-7** And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until eventide,** he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. 7 And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast Thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side of the Jordan!

Numbers 16:20-22 And the Lord spake unto** Moses and Aaron*, saying, 21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. 22 **And they fell upon their faces,* and said, O God, the God of spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt Thou be wroth with the all of the congregation?

Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron **went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, **and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the Lord appeared unto them.

Matthew 26:36-39 Then cometh Jesus **with them unto a place called Gesthemane, and saith unto his disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be very sorrowful and heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death; tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, **and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou Wilt.

Then the **man bowed down and worshipped **the Lord. (Genesis, 24:26)

...So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 29:30)

and I** bowed down and worshiped **the Lord. I praised the Lord…(Genesis, 24:48)

.... Then the people bowed down and worshipped...did just what the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron. (Exodus, 12:27-28)

and they believed. And when they heard that the Lord was concerned about them and had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshipped. (Exodus, 4:31)

and bowed down...three times, with his face to the ground. (1 Samuel, 20:41)

Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, "Amen! Amen!" Then they bowed down and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground. (Nehemiah, 8:6)

Abram bowed with his face touching the ground...(Genesis, 17:3)

When Abraham's servant heard what they said, he bowed down to the ground before the Lord. (Genesis, 24:52)

Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshipped. (Exodus, 34:

When** Moses heard this, he fell facedown**. (Numbers, 16:4)

the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty,** who falls prostrate**, and whose eyes are opened. (Numbers, 24:4)

Then** Joshua bowed to the ground **in reverence...(Joshua, 5:14)

When all the people saw this, **they fell prostrate **and cried, "The Lord—He is God! The Lord—He is God!"(1 Kings, 18:39)

when I bow down in the temple...may the Lord forgive your servant for this. (2 Kings, 5:18)

**they bowed low and fell prostrate **before the Lord. (1 Chronicles, 29:20)

**they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshipped **and gave thanks to the Lord...(2 Chronicles, 7:3)

... the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshipped... ordered... to praise the Lord. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed their heads and worshipped. (2 Chronicles, 29:29-30)

Then he **fell to the ground in worship **and said: “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.” (Job, 1:20-21)

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Good, so we agree the religious duties came from Abraham and that Prophet Muhammad was enjoined to follow the religion of Abraham. Therefore, the salat prayers done by Prophet Muhammad, Jesus, Moses (all messengers) would have been performed the same way as Abraham performed it.

Are you saying that these hadiths/sunnah above are explaining the correct way of performing salat? The way Abraham and all previous messengers did?

Peace
submitmj

120

Yes! We do believe that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) followed prophet Ibrahim (PBUH). And yes we do believe that that the way we are told in Hadiths about Salat is the correct way. MY question is very straight forward: Why you are not answering that?

How our Prophet Muhammad knew the way Prophet Ibrahim was praying Salat???
How he knew, how Prophet Ibrahim fasted??? How he Knew, Prophet Ibrahim performed Hajj????