Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

We all know that (according to Quran) GOD’s system throughout history is essentially unchangeable. The message of worshiping GOD alone has always been same and those who set up idols (statues, people, their egos, other gods, etc.) are out of GOD’s grace. I’m sure we can all agree on this.

The Quran speaks often about the children of Israel disregarding GOD’s commandments in the Torah. These examples are given to us so that we may learn from previous generations. The children of Israel were given so many miracles, yet they still worshiped a golden calf besides GOD. It goes to show that if people are insincere, it does not matter how many proofs they are shown, they are veiled, they are blinded. The fact that they can disbelieve after watching the Red Sea parting shows a universal weakness of humankind. It shows that we do not like to submit to our Creator’s decrees. It shows how egotistical the human is by nature. It is no wonder we are commanded to kill our egos in the Quran.

[Quran 2:54] Recall that Moses said to his people, “O my people, you have wronged your souls by worshiping the calf. You must repent to your Creator. You shall kill your egos. This is better for you in the sight of your Creator.” He did redeem you. He is the Redeemer, Most Merciful. We know the message is the same. So where did the Jews go wrong? The Torah explains this best when Moses spoke to the Israelites.
[Deuteronomy 4:1] Israel, listen to the RULES AND LAWS I’M GOING TO TEACH YOU. FOLLOW THEM…

[Deuteronomy 4:2] DO NOT ADD to what I’m commanding you. DO NOT SUBTRACT FROM IT EITHER. Instead, OBEY THE COMMANDS OF THE LORD your GOD that I am giving you.
Many years later, the Jewish scholars (rabbis) began collecting oral traditions (practices and sayings) falsely attributed to Moses through ‘hearsay’. These books are called the Jewish Mishnah. Then, Rabbis’ added their expert commentaries. This is called the ‘Gemarrah’. Together these books make up the Jewish Talmud. The Talmud takes precedence over the Torah (God’s revelations) for religious guidance and rules. The scholars justified using the Talmud for the following reasons:
“…without the Talmud, we would NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND passages in the Hebrew Bible” Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph

" …anyone who does not study the Talmud CANNOT understand Scripture." Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph
It is these books (mishnah & Gemarrah or the Talmud) that caused the children of Israel to reject Jesus, the Messiah. For example, look what happened when the Jewish Scholars questioned Jesus why his disciples DID NOT follow the ORAL TRADITIONS of the Talmud (actions & sayings falsely attributed to Moses). [Bible…..Mark 7:6-13] Jesus replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship GOD in vain; their **TEACHINGS ARE MERELY HUMAN RULES. **You have let go of the COMMANDS OF GOD and are HOLDING ON TO HUMAN TRADITIONS." And he continued, "You have a fine way of setting aside the COMMANDS OF GODOBSERVE YOUR OWN TRADITIONS! in order to Thus you nullify the word of GOD BY YOUR TRADITION that you have HANDED DOWN.
Now, we all know what they did to Jesus. They rejected the him for commanding them to worship GOD alone by upholding GOD’s revelations only and rejecting all other sources of guidance.

Then, 325 years later at the conference of Nicence, the Christian scholars invented the Trinity doctrine that officially deified Jesus. Something never preached by him. In fact, the Bible shows very clearly that Jesus is not GOD, but they chose to uphold the Trinity. Thus, the Christians did the same thing as the children of Israel. They followed ‘other’ sources of religious guidance. The Quran even says this happened. Although, try telling a Jewish or Christian they are following fabrications and they will get very angry.[Quran 9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.
When Muhammad was given the Quran, the Jews and Christians rejected him and the Quran because they did not want to abandon their traditions. It gave them too much power in the worldly life. Knowing what happened with the Jews and Christians, what does the Quran say?

[Quran 6:38] ...We** did not leave anything out of this book.**..

[Quran 18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of YOUR LORD’s SCRIPTURE. NOTHING SHALL ABROGATE HIS WORDS, and you SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.
It is clear what muslims are supposed to follow. It was the same for the Christians and Jews and they created new doctrines by scholars based on rumours. Approximately, 200 years after Muhammad’s death, Islamic scholars began collecting oral traditions (sayings and actions) that are said to be from Muhammad. These books are called ‘Hadith and Sunnah’ of Prophet Muhammad.
[6:112] We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

[6:113] This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.*

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete,* in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
[Quran 45:6] These are GOD’s revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which HADITH other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?
[45:7] Woe to every FABRICATOR, GUILTY.
In Hebrew, these books could be called ‘Mishnah and Gemarrah of Prophet Muhammad’. The Islamic equivalent of the Talmud. They did the exact same thing as the Jews. Now we can appreciate even more why the Quran talks so much about the children of Israel’s disregard of God’s revelations and commandments.
Many islamic scholars believe they need hadith and sunnah because they have to obey the prophet. Yes, but obeying the prophet is obeying GOD’s revelations.
[Quran 69:43-46] A revelation from the Lord of the universe. HAD HE UTTERED ANY OTHER TEACHINGS we would have PUNISHED HIM. We would have STOPPED THE REVELATIONS to him.
Ironically, even their Hadiths forbid Hadith.
The Prophet said, “DO NOT write down anything from me EXCEPT THE QURAN.” [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Muslim]

This Hadith states that the Prophet maintained his ANTI-HADITH STAND UNTIL DEATH. [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 192]
In fact, on the Day of Judgment, Muhammad will say… [Quran 25:30] …"My Lord, MY PEOPLE HAVE DESERTED THIS QURAN****.
They even try to justify the ‘Sunnah’ by claiming it is the only way Muslims know how to perform the daily contact (salat) prayers. Even though, their Sunnah books does not show to do it correctly. All it says is that Muhammad corrected somebody, but never says what he corrected. If they looked in the Quran they would realize ALL RELIGIOUS PRACTICES came through Abraham, NOT Muhammad.
[Quran 16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) TO FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF ABRAHAM, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

[Quran 21:72-73] And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous. We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and HOW TO OBSERVE THE CONTACT PRAYERS (Salat)
In other words, the contact prayers (Salat) were well established before Muhammad. In fact, this is further confirmed by the fact that Sura 1 (al-fateha) which is needed to do salat, was the fifth revelation, and in the 3rd revelation (sura 73), verse 20 muslims are told to “observe the contact prayers (Salat)”. This reaffirms the fact that salat prayers were already in practice before the Quran was revealed. However, many muslims who follow the Islamic Talmud (hadith & sunnah) reject this information the same way the Jews rejected the Torah, and the Christians the Bible.
*(God addressing Muhammad) *
[Quran 17:73-77] They almost diverted you from the revelations we have given you. They wanted you to fabricate something else, in order to consider you a friend. If it were not that we strengthened you, you almost leaned towards them just a little bit. Had you done that, we would have doubled the retribution for you in this life, and after death, and you would have found no one to help you against us. They almost banished you from the land to get rid of you, so they could revert as soon as you left. This has been consistently the case with all the messengers that we sent before you, and you will find that our system never changes.
So, if following the ‘words of men’ is forbidden for Jews and Christians. Then, it is forbidden for Muslims because GOD’s law is unchangeable.

Most muslims reject what the Quran says or any argument like the above because the common belief by most muslims is that no human can understand the Quran. Thus, turn to human rumours collected by humans falesly attributed to Prophet Muhammad in order to understand the Quran. This is EXACTLY what the children of Israel did with the Jewish Talmud *(hadith & Sunnah of Moses & scholars)*. Again, if the Quran was studied they would learn that GOD is the teacher of the Quran (55:1-2) and that…

[54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
[54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
The question really comes down to this…**who do you trust? ****GOD and HIS proven revelations **or **fabricated rumors **falsely attributed to Muhammad 200 years after he died? If your religious focus is GOD alone, the choice will naturally be GOD’s words, if your religious focus is Muhammad, you choice will be the words of the prophet’s enemies (Hadith & Sunnah). GOD willing, you will be guided to see the truth of this.

Here are some videos to help you see the truth of the Quran.
http://vimeo.com/channels/god
(I cannot post links yet, so you’ll have to copy and paste it into your browser)
Peace
submitmj

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

You will have to do more than just copy/pasting to prove what you're saying.

I like many believe Sunnah is an integral part of Islam. Quran is indeed the supreme scripture, and only word of Allah (swt) sufficient enough for all believers, but Sunnah is living according to Quran.

Here's an excerpt from Prophet Muhammad (S.a.w.) Last Semon:

[quote]
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
[/quote]

Peace
teggy

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

PS: What you're saying may apply to some hadiths which are seen with skepticism and lack authenticity, but beyond that is hard to say. Most authentic hadiths are accepted widely because they do not contradict the Quran.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

:smack:

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

LOL ^ exactly

I understand you believe I am far astray for putting my trust in the WOrd of GOD over the words of men. If I am so astray and incorrect, show me your proof in Quran that I am wrong? Show me one single verse that says to uphold another source of religious guidance besides Quran. In fact, since GOD’s system is unchangeable, show me one verse in the Old Testament and New testament that says to uphold anything other than the WORD of GOD alone?

Hadith & Sunnah are arabic words that mean “oral actions and sayings” or simply ‘Oral Traditions’. Therefore, in Hebrew hadith and Sunnah would be called the ‘Mishna & Gemarrah’ of prophet Muhammada or the Islamic Talmud…And all muslims know that is what screwed everything up for the children of Israel and GOD has condemned those who do not follow their scripture for human rules. So, I say again…Hadith & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad are NOT from prophet Muhammad. They are third and fourth party fabrications that came almost 200 years after the Prophets death.

All I ask is for you to show your proof FROM QURAN that it is ‘okay’ to uphold other sources of religious guidance, NOT hadith and sunnah because they are NOT from GOD.

Peace
submitmj

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

sumbitmj, can you please fix the posts when you paste the text, leaving the previous tags on makes it extremely hard to read.

Thank you.

PS: Like i said, will have to do more than copy/paste to convince anyone. :) Not a poke at you, but a genuine factor.

I did not know how to remove those tags. GOD willing, it won't happen again. Although, if an argument is solid with a very strong Quranic basis, it should not matter where it came from as the verses can be verified by anybody with a Quran. Although, you will find the vast majority of my posts are my own.

Peace

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^Plz read the rules of forum in the sticky thread. Copy pasting long articles from other sites is not allowed and people hardly read such threads. It would be better if you post your own righting and concisely.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Islam-Submission-Introduction,definition, discussion, debate, laws, justice, human rights, history, terrorism, Jihad, women, Jews, Jesus, Christianity-Quran, Koran, Qur’an, Quranic topics, Index, Browser, several translations, discussions, debates, A
Hadith and Sunna in Islam (Submission). Best source for information about Islam on the Internet Hadith and Sunna in Islam (Submission)- Ahadith-Sunnah-Quran, Qur’an, Koran-information-laws-legal-justice-translation-English Allah-God-Muhammed-Mohammed

this is your source

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Excellent post, even if it is copy-pasted from somewhere else.

Saying that God's words in the Quran are equal or even lower than the status you give to the Hadith is nothing more than picking man's word over God's. If you truly believe the Quran is God's words, then by definition, nothing in it can be wrong. However, you can't say the same for anything that was penned down by man through an oral tradition. I wish we had a tape that visualized and audio recorded everything the Prophet did and said, so there would be no dispute over what is truly Sunnah, but we dont have that.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^Very surprised you say that , the author of this article is an amateur his arguments are superficial , logic circular , and from a neutral point of view his approach is polemical.

he uses historical and hadith sources when they suit him , and when they go against him he twists verses of Quran out of context to prove his point.
Similarly he relies on a series of half-truths which might convince a few simpletons.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

examples of all the above?

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

If you truly believe the Quran is God's words, then by definition, nothing in it can be wrong. However, you can't say the same for anything that was penned down by man through an oral tradition

[/QUOTE]

okay since u seem to be so LOGICAL

let me ask you this
How can you say Quran is 100% authentic ? answer not by faith but by Evidence
Do we have a Quran existing today that we can prove independently without resorting to any sources that it was complied by the Prophet ?
What do we know about the man who gave us the Quran from Quran ALONE ?

why does he bother quoting from historical sources when they rely on similar mechanism for authenticity as hadith ( with minor variations)

Again I dont mean to deny that there was no fabrication of hadith by muslims ( some sahaba included btw) but to discredit the ENTIRE hadith enterprise and Sunnah on the basis of this ( the evidence of this forgery is present in hadith sources too) is like making mountains out of molehills.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Not when those molehills lead to inexcusable crimes against women being condoned by muslim men, not when those molehills cause widespread discrimination against women and marginalization of women in society, not when these molehills are used to incite young angry men into killing innocents in the name of Jihad.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^ why do u have such a single tract mind ?
exploitation of women is a seperate issue ( and endemic to almost all patriarchal societies to varying extent ) its true that religion is used by musilms to justify this just as christians used it before to burn witches or hindus their widows
but thats not the issue here plz answer the questions i raised



you seem to agree with him just cus he seems to offer arguments that fits your agenda

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

[QUOTE]

show me one verse in the Old Testament and New testament that says to uphold anything other than the WORD of GOD alone?

[/QUOTE]

since when do we consider these books as untainted ?
your arguments are surprisngly similar to the born again christians

[QUOTE]

Hadith & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad are NOT from prophet Muhammad.

[/QUOTE]

u treat hadith as its one specific literary work ....its actually the a whole range of historical works, against which works do u have a problem be specific ?

plus many of the historians were hadith masters too , so by this logic we should reject ibn athir, ibn hajar, tabari, ali madaini etc.
Inaddition hadith masters rely on many pure historians for their source ( yaqubi,waqidi, ibn kalbi) so why should they be neccesarily doubted ? since u have no problem accepting works of historians

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

Peace All esp. submitmj

This view can easily be shown to be erroneous I do not intend to go into detail here:

submitmj you posted this :

[quote]

The question really comes down to this......who do you trust? **GOD and HIS proven revelations **or **fabricated rumors **falsely attributed to Muhammad 200 years after he died? If your religious focus is GOD alone, the choice will naturally be GOD's words, if your religious focus is Muhammad, you choice will be the words of the prophet's enemies (Hadith & Sunnah). GOD willing, you will be guided to see the truth of this.
[/quote]

First of all this dichotomy is not accurate at least it is not a fair one. There are many non-fabricated sayings of Muhammad (SAW) that we have trust in.

The major fallacy here is one of transmission. It is assumed that because Al-Qur'an al-Majid is the Word of Allah (SWT) it is more reliable (as an authentic source) than any hadith. The confusion is that the Word of God as an Authority is of course higher than the word of man, but the transmission of the Word of God i.e. the method by which we have obtained the Qur'an is in exactly the same manner we have received hadith. That they both have been transmitted to us by our predecessors.

The Sahih hadith have the SAME strength of transmission as the verses of the Qur'an in that they are both Tawatur. (Transmitted through multiple unbroken chain narrations). The method by which we authenticate the verses of the Qur'an is the same method for hadith. However, when it comes to extracting and exacting meaning then the Qur'an is of course a higher authority and this distinction needs to be realised.

The next level of rebuttal is that to extract meaning from the Qur'an itself has an etiquette and methodology that is being thrown out by the 'submitters'. This is to present the argument of conflict between hadith and Qur'an without attempting to question ones own initial take on the meaning and by assuming that the meaning acquired by the modern reader is in any way greater than the meaning exacted for the same verses by the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) or the Companions or even the Salaf. Rather there are hadith which contextualise ayat of the Qur'an and they should be given greater authority over ones own brainchild interpretation. Why? Because they are like the Qur'an authentic and the Qur'an refers to seeking knowledge from Muhammad (SAW). Tradition is a formula for proof also. Tradition has been that scholars are addressed for clarification. This tradition is not baseless because the Sahabah have been recorded as seeking clarification from RasulAllah (SAW) so there is in effect an unbroken chain of scholars which are authority greater than our own interpretations of scripture.

For sure to submit means not only to obey Allah (SWT) but to do so without condition. Filtering the Qur'an through our own minds is not therefore submission because it negates the method by which the best Muslims operated.

Then there is a stranger dichotomy of a vain attempt to separate those who love God from those who love Muhammad (SAW) ... These two are not separable. The ones who love God will love what He Loves i.e. RasulAllah (SAW) and the ones who love Muhammad (SAW) will love what he loves i.e. Allah (SWT). To love Allah (SWT) verily we must love and obey Muhammad (SAW) and that is the manner by which we can attain true Guidance. It was not the Sunnah of Allah (SWT) to reveal His Qur'an as a book on pages, He did so through the heart of Muhammad (SAW) and in turn through the hearts of men - and there it remains preserved.

Muhammad (SAW) was selected as a teacher for us and so we have his teachings to benefit us today. These are not false stories ... rather those who claim so have their own agendas and only echo their own inabilities to truly submit to Allah (SWT).

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

@PSYAH and DAS REICH

if recording of hadith is allowed then why Abu Bakr burnt a lot of them and Umar forbid writing them. Either the shaikhan were wrong or the Bukhar, et al were incorrect.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Re: Hadith & Sunnah is forbidden by Quran

^and your point is that Islam should not have reached you! If you are so fed up with your deen then why do you not flee from it without actually having to dirty your hands with such flawed arguments. Do not think that I am putting words in your mouth, this is what your statement imply. No hadith mean, no Islam would have reached us, PERIOD! Why are shia against writing down the ahadith?

@gudi & @subm

why do you trust the Qur'an, meaning it is persevered? Is it because the Qur'an says that trust me? If so, how do you know what Qur'an says in fact is correct and not written by men?