Why do they hate us?

sTaLkEr · May 29, 2008, 3:27pm

Re: Why do they hate us?

^^ Honey, if you followed the thread, you're ONLY making a laughing stock out of yourself. So better stop pooping crap about Pak and focus your attention on the riots, insurgencies, caste/minority discrimination and church and mosque burnings "back home."

teggy · May 29, 2008, 4:53pm

Well then i'm glad Indians come here for comic relief. Funny thing though is, their posts don't show any such joy :(

vineshvk · May 29, 2008, 9:54pm

deedawar:

I regard your post as from someone who is unthankful and is in denial.

Othe poster has given you some examples however you would outrightly deny those as well.

Muslims gave many many gifts to this land including..

Historical builidings…(India is eating the fruit of these in terms of tourism)…
Cultural up-lifting..like elimination of cast system, language. poetry, music and musical instruments, art, handicrafts, games like polo, respect for women, marrying the widows, eliminating horrible religious act like Sati.
Making a Justice system..which was blind to cast, race or religion etc.

Madarsas and universities, artillary/cannons, soap, use of sulphur, medicines, elimination of mythology and false beliefs, postal system, water supply and sewage system…etc etc. (Locals would only knew to go to the jungle or open field and do the chores or take a bath in rivers like Ganga!!)

If muslims were not present in India…the country would have millions of monkeys, langoors, other animals roaming around the subcontinent and human would slowly become extinct..since locals believed killing an animal was sin!

Please read and read the books written by muslims like Alberuni, Ibne-Batoota, Babar, Jahangir etc.

Its true that all kingdomes do end sometimes for one or other reasons.

Read this..You are doing the same thing as in the article!!!

Home - Mode TheReligion

..the hatred against muslims has no boundaries.

How to Exterminate Muslims in India?
Dalit Voice, Editorial, May 16-31. 1999[FONT=‘Arial Unicode MS’]

Muslims ruled over Spain from 712 AD to 1492 AD for 780 years, yet today there are no Muslims in Spain though every aspect of Spanish life has a touch of Islam. Spanish language has many Arabic words, its music has an Arabic tone, its culture has more Arabic influence than the European, and proper nouns in Spanish often have the Arabic prefix al. From 1492, when the last bastion of Muslim political strength Grenada fell, the Muslims of Spain were on the decline and its culmination took place after 120 years when the last batch of Muslim die-hards left Spain in 1612. From that year, Islam vanished from the Spanish horizons.
A particular noteworthy point is that during this period of Islamic decline from Spain, the entire civilised world was ruled by Muslims. The Ottoman Turks had conquered Constantinople in 1553, and were ruling the entire Balkan Peninsula, Egypt was ruled by the powerful Mamiukes, Persia was at its political pinnacle under the Abbasi rulers, and India was ruled by the Moghals. Still Islam vanished from Spain and none of these great Muslim armies did anything to protect the Muslims of Spain. How Islam was ejected from Spain had been a subject of keen study by lndia’s Hindu Nazis in the 30s and 40s of this century. They studied this aspect to be copied in India and to counter this possibility, the Muslim leaders also studied this to prevent a repetition of the Spanish methods because Muslims (forming 11.35% of the population as per 1981 census) as lndia’s single largest minorities have become the biggest headache to the upper caste Hindus. But the present-day Muslims are totally ignorant of the history of Islamic decline in Spain and hence of the designs surrounding it.
Through this we intend to shed a little light on this subject so that the thinking section of the Muslims and their sympathisers may do some more research on this subject. As in India, Spanish Muslims had three categories: (i) the descendants of the original Arabs, (ii) descendants of Arab fathers and Spanish mothers and (iii) Christian converts to Islam. Immediately after the fall of Grenada many of the original Arabs to save their lives (not property, as they were not permitted to carry their wealth) left Spain to Tunisia and Morocco; many died on their journey by the attacking Christian hordes. Rest of the original Arabs who opted to live in Spain itself were subsequently branded ‘foreigners" (as in India) and destroyers of Spain. The other category of Muslims viz. the descendants of Muslim fathers and Christianmothers and converts from Christianity opted to live in Spain believing in the declaration of King Ferdinand that complete religious freedom would be guaranteed. (in India also, we are told that Muslims enjoy full religious freedom and minority rights). The attacks by Christian on their lives and property during the earlier years was pardoned as a temporary phenomenon.
Compare it with the development that took place in India after the partition (1947). But these attacks on Muslim life and property in Spain did not abate but continued for about 50 years with lesser intensity in a sporadic manner, just as it is happening in India today. In the earlier years, the Indian Muslims resisted and fought back. There were mini-battles in the streets, but gradually there were one-sided attacks and every time Muslims were the losers. Of late, the Hindu police itself is let lose to kill the Muslims in India.
While the organized Christian groups were committing such massacres, Ferdinand’s Govt, in Spain adopted the policy of eliminating Muslims from the services and adopting the following measures:-
Arabic was removed from administration,
schools attached to mosques were debarred from teaching academic and secular subjects like science, history, mathematics and philosophy. Only religious teaching could be imparted,
Lessons in history were faked by which the Muslim rule was dubbed as barbaric. Contribution of Muslims to the development of Spain was avoided,
Muslim houses were made objects of constant searching by police on allegations of arms hoarding and secret meetings,
Original Arab Muslims were projected as enemies of Christians and destroyers of Spain.
Christian converts were persuaded to reconvert to Christianity on the ground that their ancestors were forced to become Muslims and as there is no more coercion, they should revert to Christianity.
Muslims who were from Muslim-Christian parentage were branded as *******s and ridiculed and persuaded to revert to Christianity.
Marriages performed in the Islamic manner were directed to be registered with the judicial officers.
Islamic law was declared illegal. Every method followed in Spain is being experimented in India with better precision and timing.
Thus Muslims in Spain were made objects of ridicule, condemnation and continuous attack. Burning of Muslim houses and shops was encouraged to destroy their economy. Mock ceremonies of reconversion of Muslims to Christianity were held and publicized. In India, Hindu Nazis of all hues-Arya Samaj, Ramakrishna Mission, Vishwa Hindu Parishad etc,. are doing the same. The first two generation of Spanish Muslims adopted passive methods to save their religion by teaching Arabic to their children at home and mosques, and telling them orally about the realities but gradually they lost the zeal. When marriages were ordered to be celebrated only through Govt. agencies, Muslims in early stages performed dual marriages - one with the Govt. authorities and again privately in their homes in the Islamic manner. Gradually the second ceremony was given up as even such a private ceremony was banned.
During this period, Muslim masses gradually fell out of the grips of the Muslim leadership and Muslim elites started flocking to Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt where they were received with sympathy. Poor Muslim masses were left uncared for. This is exactly what is happening in India. The richer, English-educated Muslims are getting Brahminised. They have become imitators of upper caste Hindus as they live not in Muslim localities but in Hindu areas. The poor Muslims (they form 95% of the Muslim population) live in ghettos and being better followers of Islam, they are left high and dry. Hence they are getting killed in all anti-Muslim riots.
The seeds sown in the first half of the century in Spain started yielding results in the second half. There was no political leadership, no organization to protect Muslims and enlightened personalities to save the situation. Religious leaders knowing nothing but Islamic’ theology tried their best to save the situation, but against heavy propaganda by the Govt. agencies, lures and offers to reconverts, ignorance of Islamic values by the masses and sense of inferiority nurtured in the minds of Muslim masses were too big a force to be undone by the theologians. This needed a political leadership and an organization with arms to counter, but there was none. Those who spoke of invoking the help of Muslim powers of Turkey and Egypt were feared and exposed before the authorities (by the Muslims themselves) to be condemned. Without willing fighters, other Muslim powers could not help. Those who had settled in Turkey and Egypt advised the authorities there to desist’from such a thought as otherwise atrocities on Muslims of Spain would increase. An Ahmed Shah Abdaii was needed but th@'@ was none. And the Muslim masses joined the “mainstream” of Spanish life and the mullahs finding no job for their preaching gradually left Spain. And the last batch to leave Spain consisted of the diehard mullahs in 1612
In India also the political leadership of the Muslims became a tail of the Hindu parties led by the upper castes. Only the theological leadership like that of Moulana Hasan Ali Nadvi has tried to maintain the cultural identity of the Indian Muslims.
This “Spanish experiment” is being tried with greater energy and efficiency in India. Urdu, which is as Islamic in India as Arabic was in Spain, is being eased out. Muslims are voluntarily holding on to madrasas. English-educated richer Muslims are away from the Muslim masses. We saw this at the Tablighe Jamat International conference held in Bangalore (DV, March 15, 1985). They are not going to Muslim countries, but are taking refuge in their psychological and physical seclusion. Any move to organise them to protect the Muslim life and property is branded as communal. Any Muslim flirting, if not supporting the upper castes, is called a “nationalist Muslim”. The gulf between the Muslim masses and educated rich Muslims is widening every day. Mass killing of Muslims is considered something natural by the Muslim leadership itself. Whenever it is raised at international Islamic platforms such actions are called interference in the internal affairs of India. Muslims history is deleted from the syllabus. Names of Muslims who died for India are avoided. A great martyr who died for India like Tippu Sultan is unknown to youngsters, whereas the name of Tantia Tope, who fought not for India but for his pension, and Jhansi Laxmi Bai, who fought for her adopted son’s heirship to the throne, is brought on the lips of every Indian. No Muslim gets awards for his contribution to science, medicine, music, art or gallantry. Even those who fought from the ranks of the ruling Congress Party like Moulana Azad, Kidwai, Syed Mahmood, Humayun Kabir etc. do not have a road or extension named after them. But there are half-a-dozen in the names of each upper caste leaders in our towns and cities. History is being re-written. (“Falsifying Indian History”, DV editorial, April 16, 1985). Muslims are killed daily and their houses and shops burnt. The doors of the Army, police and administration are closed to them. And yet Muslim organizations to protect Islam are coming up like mushrooms. Everybody wants to protect Islam and nobody wants to protect Muslims. We are really worried.
A study of the Ruling Class policies reveals that it has great similarity with the one followed by Ferdinand and Isabelle in Spain. The only difference is that the Hindu upper castes are more sharp and sophisticated because of the limitations imposed in the 20th century by the checks exercisable by the United Nations Human Rights Charter and international public opinion.
The systematic and daily anti-Muslim riots resulting in loss of life and property, and above all the sense of fear in the hearts of every Muslim, elimination of the martial Muslims from the Defence, paramilitary and police forces and brahminising of these forces, closing the doors of appointments in Govt. services and public undertakings, Brahminisation of education and mass.media like radio, TV and advertisement, elimination of Urdu as official language from those areas which form the presentday States of Punjab, Haryana, UP, Bihar, parts of Madhya Pradesh, Maharastra, Andhra Pradhesh and Karnataka overnight in 1947-48, gradual closing of Urdu schools are all examples of positive anti-Muslim policies.
On the brahminical psychological warfare side comes the cries of Personal Law amendment, now diluted as common civil code, greatness of the Indian (Hindu) culture, projection of notorious anti-Muslim personalities like “Mahatma” Gandhi, B. G. Tilak, Madan Mohan Malaviya, Veer Savarkar, Lala Laipat Rai as heroes of India to belittle the contribution of Muslims for the development and progress of the country, re-writing of Indian history, describing Muslim professions like beef-selling as a sin and glorifying cow protection policies, introduction of mechanical slaughter of animals to throw out of job butchers, declaration of import and export business carried on by Muslims as smuggling are policies through which vulnerable Indian masses are misguided, resulting in a psychological anti-Muslim bias. Muslim electoral constituencies are divided horizontally and vertically so that they don’t have an effective voting power anywhere and thrusting upon them ultra-secular Muslim leaders who have started worshipping Hindu idols and such scenes being systematically televised. Unfortunately Muslim leaders, who are dejected with the Govt., repose much confidence in Hindu masses and hope to secure their help ignoring the fact that the poor Hindu (Dalit) masses are as much victims of such a propaganda. And as on this day only seeds are being sown. The harvest is yet to come. When the harvest reason comes, what will be harvested in India is repetition of Spain, unless the Muslims resort to counter measures soon.
It is high time the Muslim/ intelligentsia rises to the occasion to undo the repetition of the history of Spain in India. Islam has always been protected by the Muslim masses and not by the classes. Rich Muslims, who are not even 5% of the Muslim population (with minor exceptions) are joining the upper caste exploiters. They may talk of Islam but they have forgotten the fellow Muslims. Please note: religion does not protect its followers, but followers protect the religion. Remember if Islam has to be saved in India, Muslims have to be saved.

^I am not able to clean up text..sorry.

Deedawar.

:)
I saw some indians putting up some funny jokes but urs trumps everybody. U made my day.

mufakkar · May 30, 2008, 6:02am

Now this is just plain shamelessness. Even though there is no factual material to rebut Moonshiner's post, our Indian friends still have to butt in with a sad attempt at humor...

hooda · May 30, 2008, 6:29am

Re: Why do they hate us?

why do people take pride being a chowdary,wadhera...why are people working under them considered to be outcast's...

the feudal structure of ur society is nothing but a caste structure...

sectarianism in muslim societies is just an extension of hindu casteism...

hooda · May 30, 2008, 8:44am

Re: Why do they hate us?

would any one of u allow ur son/daughter to marry outside ur biradhari???

can a pashtun ever live in a muhajir/sindhi area in karachi??

care to explain how this sectarianism is different from casteim in india???

vineshvk · May 30, 2008, 11:25am

If that is what u think is correct, is that a justification for u then probably u would not have any problem with people taking up other states just to impose their way of life. (read US taking iraq)

sTaLkEr · May 30, 2008, 1:21pm

Re: Why do they hate us?

Hooda, you better stay shut – you’re making a huge mockery out of yourself. When all your previous claims are strongly rebutted, you come with a flood of new idiocies

My own family is a Punjabi-Urdu speaking/Mohajir mix. We don’t give a **** abt “biradari” neither does any one I know. Feudal culture only remains somewhat strong in interior Sindh/Southern Punjab, unlike Caste system which is prevalent all over India. Now go and start crying to mommy before she tells you what new crap to put on the forum.

slim_mo · May 30, 2008, 6:21pm

Re: Why do they hate us?

Hooda seems to think her persistence gives her an edge in debate, which would be admirable, if only there was any quality in her posts.

I too could make attacks on India (whom actually spawned the caste system in that part of the world) but the reason I choose not to, is because I have never set foot in India, I only wish our Indian freinds who are in a similar position, would show us the same courtesy.

deedawar · May 30, 2008, 8:44pm

When you are done laughing......answer intelligently what is posted and try....
.......just try denying the hidden thoughts hindus have against muslims in India and for Pakistan and its people...

..............you are doomed to fail miserably if try!!!

deedawar · May 30, 2008, 8:45pm

Like many hindus from India dusguised as muslims IN PAKISTAN!?

deedawar · May 30, 2008, 8:48pm

Aapki Daal Yahaan Nahin Gali Kiya ?..

deedawar · May 30, 2008, 9:08pm

I think thats the best thing you have ever said..the last sentence:

" sectarianism in muslim societies is just an extension of hindu casteism..."

Marriage is union of not only two persons but families and its culture. Anywhere in this world people try to mary with people who are like minded or like cultures or like religious etc. *Nothing wrong with that. *

My own family has people from all provinces of Pakistan and inter-cultural marriages are very common.

I also admit that few people did carry on bad cultural deeds for a while by living side by side in India but I am glad Pakisan was made and people had something else better to look for!

The caste system which is most prevalent in India and its history has been based upon false connotations such as who is actually a decendent of God or closer to God or its family or something like that crap etc.
.............Burhaman versus Shooders/Achoots (Untouchables).

If India/Hindustan has anything to say good now about its half hearted attempt to eliminate this caste system...is DUE TO ISLAMIC TEACHINGS and MUSLIMS AS EXAMPLES.

This example was given to locals long before any other civilization set foot on Indian subcontinent.

deedawar · May 30, 2008, 9:17pm

Yor first part of post...I have given answer already.

I am afraid I am not going to invite you to Karachi to see how many pathans are living in so called 'muhajir or sindhi areas'....there are no such areas by the way.

Sectarianism is not based upon hating someone so much that even touching is not allowed..but liking one sect over other.....you might have been gullible to think its based upon hatred...because of very recent events..perhaps as long as you and I have lived. But the history goes way before our time..trust me.

Many people have incited issue of sectarianism as a division among muslims and so far have failed for the most part. Burning places of worship by unknown motor cycle riders was one of the tactice...I am certain is from foreign trained people with alterior motives.

For thousands of years muslims with different sects have lived side by side in various parts of the world peacefully and respectfully.

My other point is that hindustan/India has a long history of hating someone or other. Its like they cannot live without having someone to hate or fight with...mostly their neighbors!

mufakkar · May 30, 2008, 11:27pm

Why don't you get out of Kashmir first of all before talking about people taking up states?

malhot · May 31, 2008, 1:04am

Re: Why do they hate us?

Mufakkar - I remembered a joke, when you said that.

Pak & India were having their usual meetings sorting out their issues. For everything an Indian said, all the Pak team would say is - " first give us Kashmir".

An Indian delegate member felt thirsty and asked for water - out came the Pak reply "first give us Kashmir".

deedawar · May 31, 2008, 1:45am

Re: Why do they hate us?

^Seems very patriotic and sensible to me...:-) He might have thought that would at least get the attention to reality!

Pundit_Vikram · May 31, 2008, 4:36am

Hello Deedawar,

I inturn deem your response incorrect and ill-informed. I will say why for some of them but th erest should be obvious based on that.

Buildings - big deal. If you rule over a country for 500+ years you tend to build some. Muslim kings built Tajmahal and a few others to preserve their own legacy or worse, in memory of their begums. Nothing noble here. On the other hand look at the fantastic temples built by Hindu kings - these were built for people to use for prayer.

Cultural uplifting - this phrase uttered alongwith muslim kings is an oxymoron to say the least. Indian civilization was far more advanced than these muslims could even dream of or comprehend. The dances, th emusic, the painting techniques, sculpture, philosophic depth…you name it, the pre-muslim Indian knowledge and accomplishments make the ones that developed during muslim rule look amateurish. Muslim kings did add some variety but that again is nothing for a 500+ year rule

Madarasas and universities - what are you smoking? can you even scratch the surface of pre-muslim knowledge centers and scholarly works that existed? Everyone has heard of Nalanda and Dhakshasheela (present day Taxila) but there were literally thousands of vibrant patsalas all over the sub-continent.

I can go on and on but I will limit my response and urge that you make an attempt to learn your own ancestral history a bit. The muslim period was but a sorry blimp which alongwith the ensuing British rule, simply ran the sub-continent from a state of highly advanced and developed region to an undeveloped 3rd world.

Regards
Pundit Vikram

deedawar:

I regard your post as from someone who is unthankful and is in denial.

Othe poster has given you some examples however you would outrightly deny those as well.

Muslims gave many many gifts to this land including..

Historical builidings…(India is eating the fruit of these in terms of tourism)…
Cultural up-lifting..like elimination of cast system, language. poetry, music and musical instruments, art, handicrafts, games like polo, respect for women, marrying the widows, eliminating horrible religious act like Sati.
Making a Justice system..which was blind to cast, race or religion etc.

Madarsas and universities, artillary/cannons, soap, use of sulphur, medicines, elimination of mythology and false beliefs, postal system, water supply and sewage system…etc etc. (Locals would only knew to go to the jungle or open field and do the chores or take a bath in rivers like Ganga!!)

If muslims were not present in India…the country would have millions of monkeys, langoors, other animals roaming around the subcontinent and human would slowly become extinct..since locals believed killing an animal was sin!

Please read and read the books written by muslims like Alberuni, Ibne-Batoota, Babar, Jahangir etc.

Its true that all kingdomes do end sometimes for one or other reasons.

Read this..You are doing the same thing as in the article!!!

Home - Mode TheReligion

..the hatred against muslims has no boundaries.

How to Exterminate Muslims in India?
Dalit Voice, Editorial, May 16-31. 1999[FONT=‘Arial Unicode MS’]

Muslims ruled over Spain from 712 AD to 1492 AD for 780 years, yet today there are no Muslims in Spain though every aspect of Spanish life has a touch of Islam. Spanish language has many Arabic words, its music has an Arabic tone, its culture has more Arabic influence than the European, and proper nouns in Spanish often have the Arabic prefix al. From 1492, when the last bastion of Muslim political strength Grenada fell, the Muslims of Spain were on the decline and its culmination took place after 120 years when the last batch of Muslim die-hards left Spain in 1612. From that year, Islam vanished from the Spanish horizons.
A particular noteworthy point is that during this period of Islamic decline from Spain, the entire civilised world was ruled by Muslims. The Ottoman Turks had conquered Constantinople in 1553, and were ruling the entire Balkan Peninsula, Egypt was ruled by the powerful Mamiukes, Persia was at its political pinnacle under the Abbasi rulers, and India was ruled by the Moghals. Still Islam vanished from Spain and none of these great Muslim armies did anything to protect the Muslims of Spain. How Islam was ejected from Spain had been a subject of keen study by lndia’s Hindu Nazis in the 30s and 40s of this century. They studied this aspect to be copied in India and to counter this possibility, the Muslim leaders also studied this to prevent a repetition of the Spanish methods because Muslims (forming 11.35% of the population as per 1981 census) as lndia’s single largest minorities have become the biggest headache to the upper caste Hindus. But the present-day Muslims are totally ignorant of the history of Islamic decline in Spain and hence of the designs surrounding it.
Through this we intend to shed a little light on this subject so that the thinking section of the Muslims and their sympathisers may do some more research on this subject. As in India, Spanish Muslims had three categories: (i) the descendants of the original Arabs, (ii) descendants of Arab fathers and Spanish mothers and (iii) Christian converts to Islam. Immediately after the fall of Grenada many of the original Arabs to save their lives (not property, as they were not permitted to carry their wealth) left Spain to Tunisia and Morocco; many died on their journey by the attacking Christian hordes. Rest of the original Arabs who opted to live in Spain itself were subsequently branded ‘foreigners" (as in India) and destroyers of Spain. The other category of Muslims viz. the descendants of Muslim fathers and Christianmothers and converts from Christianity opted to live in Spain believing in the declaration of King Ferdinand that complete religious freedom would be guaranteed. (in India also, we are told that Muslims enjoy full religious freedom and minority rights). The attacks by Christian on their lives and property during the earlier years was pardoned as a temporary phenomenon.
Compare it with the development that took place in India after the partition (1947). But these attacks on Muslim life and property in Spain did not abate but continued for about 50 years with lesser intensity in a sporadic manner, just as it is happening in India today. In the earlier years, the Indian Muslims resisted and fought back. There were mini-battles in the streets, but gradually there were one-sided attacks and every time Muslims were the losers. Of late, the Hindu police itself is let lose to kill the Muslims in India.
While the organized Christian groups were committing such massacres, Ferdinand’s Govt, in Spain adopted the policy of eliminating Muslims from the services and adopting the following measures:-
Arabic was removed from administration,
schools attached to mosques were debarred from teaching academic and secular subjects like science, history, mathematics and philosophy. Only religious teaching could be imparted,
Lessons in history were faked by which the Muslim rule was dubbed as barbaric. Contribution of Muslims to the development of Spain was avoided,
Muslim houses were made objects of constant searching by police on allegations of arms hoarding and secret meetings,
Original Arab Muslims were projected as enemies of Christians and destroyers of Spain.
Christian converts were persuaded to reconvert to Christianity on the ground that their ancestors were forced to become Muslims and as there is no more coercion, they should revert to Christianity.
Muslims who were from Muslim-Christian parentage were branded as *******s and ridiculed and persuaded to revert to Christianity.
Marriages performed in the Islamic manner were directed to be registered with the judicial officers.
Islamic law was declared illegal. Every method followed in Spain is being experimented in India with better precision and timing.
Thus Muslims in Spain were made objects of ridicule, condemnation and continuous attack. Burning of Muslim houses and shops was encouraged to destroy their economy. Mock ceremonies of reconversion of Muslims to Christianity were held and publicized. In India, Hindu Nazis of all hues-Arya Samaj, Ramakrishna Mission, Vishwa Hindu Parishad etc,. are doing the same. The first two generation of Spanish Muslims adopted passive methods to save their religion by teaching Arabic to their children at home and mosques, and telling them orally about the realities but gradually they lost the zeal. When marriages were ordered to be celebrated only through Govt. agencies, Muslims in early stages performed dual marriages - one with the Govt. authorities and again privately in their homes in the Islamic manner. Gradually the second ceremony was given up as even such a private ceremony was banned.
During this period, Muslim masses gradually fell out of the grips of the Muslim leadership and Muslim elites started flocking to Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt where they were received with sympathy. Poor Muslim masses were left uncared for. This is exactly what is happening in India. The richer, English-educated Muslims are getting Brahminised. They have become imitators of upper caste Hindus as they live not in Muslim localities but in Hindu areas. The poor Muslims (they form 95% of the Muslim population) live in ghettos and being better followers of Islam, they are left high and dry. Hence they are getting killed in all anti-Muslim riots.
The seeds sown in the first half of the century in Spain started yielding results in the second half. There was no political leadership, no organization to protect Muslims and enlightened personalities to save the situation. Religious leaders knowing nothing but Islamic’ theology tried their best to save the situation, but against heavy propaganda by the Govt. agencies, lures and offers to reconverts, ignorance of Islamic values by the masses and sense of inferiority nurtured in the minds of Muslim masses were too big a force to be undone by the theologians. This needed a political leadership and an organization with arms to counter, but there was none. Those who spoke of invoking the help of Muslim powers of Turkey and Egypt were feared and exposed before the authorities (by the Muslims themselves) to be condemned. Without willing fighters, other Muslim powers could not help. Those who had settled in Turkey and Egypt advised the authorities there to desist’from such a thought as otherwise atrocities on Muslims of Spain would increase. An Ahmed Shah Abdaii was needed but th@'@ was none. And the Muslim masses joined the “mainstream” of Spanish life and the mullahs finding no job for their preaching gradually left Spain. And the last batch to leave Spain consisted of the diehard mullahs in 1612
In India also the political leadership of the Muslims became a tail of the Hindu parties led by the upper castes. Only the theological leadership like that of Moulana Hasan Ali Nadvi has tried to maintain the cultural identity of the Indian Muslims.
This “Spanish experiment” is being tried with greater energy and efficiency in India. Urdu, which is as Islamic in India as Arabic was in Spain, is being eased out. Muslims are voluntarily holding on to madrasas. English-educated richer Muslims are away from the Muslim masses. We saw this at the Tablighe Jamat International conference held in Bangalore (DV, March 15, 1985). They are not going to Muslim countries, but are taking refuge in their psychological and physical seclusion. Any move to organise them to protect the Muslim life and property is branded as communal. Any Muslim flirting, if not supporting the upper castes, is called a “nationalist Muslim”. The gulf between the Muslim masses and educated rich Muslims is widening every day. Mass killing of Muslims is considered something natural by the Muslim leadership itself. Whenever it is raised at international Islamic platforms such actions are called interference in the internal affairs of India. Muslims history is deleted from the syllabus. Names of Muslims who died for India are avoided. A great martyr who died for India like Tippu Sultan is unknown to youngsters, whereas the name of Tantia Tope, who fought not for India but for his pension, and Jhansi Laxmi Bai, who fought for her adopted son’s heirship to the throne, is brought on the lips of every Indian. No Muslim gets awards for his contribution to science, medicine, music, art or gallantry. Even those who fought from the ranks of the ruling Congress Party like Moulana Azad, Kidwai, Syed Mahmood, Humayun Kabir etc. do not have a road or extension named after them. But there are half-a-dozen in the names of each upper caste leaders in our towns and cities. History is being re-written. (“Falsifying Indian History”, DV editorial, April 16, 1985). Muslims are killed daily and their houses and shops burnt. The doors of the Army, police and administration are closed to them. And yet Muslim organizations to protect Islam are coming up like mushrooms. Everybody wants to protect Islam and nobody wants to protect Muslims. We are really worried.
A study of the Ruling Class policies reveals that it has great similarity with the one followed by Ferdinand and Isabelle in Spain. The only difference is that the Hindu upper castes are more sharp and sophisticated because of the limitations imposed in the 20th century by the checks exercisable by the United Nations Human Rights Charter and international public opinion.
The systematic and daily anti-Muslim riots resulting in loss of life and property, and above all the sense of fear in the hearts of every Muslim, elimination of the martial Muslims from the Defence, paramilitary and police forces and brahminising of these forces, closing the doors of appointments in Govt. services and public undertakings, Brahminisation of education and mass.media like radio, TV and advertisement, elimination of Urdu as official language from those areas which form the presentday States of Punjab, Haryana, UP, Bihar, parts of Madhya Pradesh, Maharastra, Andhra Pradhesh and Karnataka overnight in 1947-48, gradual closing of Urdu schools are all examples of positive anti-Muslim policies.
On the brahminical psychological warfare side comes the cries of Personal Law amendment, now diluted as common civil code, greatness of the Indian (Hindu) culture, projection of notorious anti-Muslim personalities like “Mahatma” Gandhi, B. G. Tilak, Madan Mohan Malaviya, Veer Savarkar, Lala Laipat Rai as heroes of India to belittle the contribution of Muslims for the development and progress of the country, re-writing of Indian history, describing Muslim professions like beef-selling as a sin and glorifying cow protection policies, introduction of mechanical slaughter of animals to throw out of job butchers, declaration of import and export business carried on by Muslims as smuggling are policies through which vulnerable Indian masses are misguided, resulting in a psychological anti-Muslim bias. Muslim electoral constituencies are divided horizontally and vertically so that they don’t have an effective voting power anywhere and thrusting upon them ultra-secular Muslim leaders who have started worshipping Hindu idols and such scenes being systematically televised. Unfortunately Muslim leaders, who are dejected with the Govt., repose much confidence in Hindu masses and hope to secure their help ignoring the fact that the poor Hindu (Dalit) masses are as much victims of such a propaganda. And as on this day only seeds are being sown. The harvest is yet to come. When the harvest reason comes, what will be harvested in India is repetition of Spain, unless the Muslims resort to counter measures soon.
It is high time the Muslim/ intelligentsia rises to the occasion to undo the repetition of the history of Spain in India. Islam has always been protected by the Muslim masses and not by the classes. Rich Muslims, who are not even 5% of the Muslim population (with minor exceptions) are joining the upper caste exploiters. They may talk of Islam but they have forgotten the fellow Muslims. Please note: religion does not protect its followers, but followers protect the religion. Remember if Islam has to be saved in India, Muslims have to be saved.

^I am not able to clean up text..sorry.

Deedawar.

deedawar · May 31, 2008, 5:07am

First of all, you did not care to answer the ongoing trend in India to somehow exterminate muslims and its good contribution to this land.....secondly you brought nothing to the argument against wealth of greatness muslims contributed to uplifting of the regon and the change which even you might be benefitting from one way or other.

Please give specific example of what Mughal Dynasty..the word dynasty is almost exclusice to mughals since they ruled this piece of land not only for a long period but sincerely gave what they could without any prejudice or hesitation.

They brought scholars and scientist from all over the world and maintained a blissfull light over a piece of land living in darkness so much that..............

............ the people thought thats the only world is the place they are living and whatever some powerful people such as Ram and krishna or whoever does is the right thing and animals are like them and cow is sacred, monkeys are Gods, and taking bath in running water is worship and stones and stars can bring good or bad to them and nude or half nude woman with multiple arms and two legs is worthy of worship,...a widowed women either dies with her husband...even multiple women.....or live a life of a dead woman........men and women are divided in to different casts and one can be killed for stone made Gods (Balidaan)..... I could go on but I think I will stop here.....

Come one admit once in your life my dear friend...*muslims brought sunshine in darkness of this piece of land. *

I will say one thing..hatred by hindus for muslims is what made Jinnah separate from congress and same/similar hatred which you show here made Pakistan possible...the same hatred which made hindus killed countless innocent people during division of this land.....the land which was once united by muslim rulers including but not limited to Akbar.....

The same hatred will keep Pakistan and its citizens united and get stronger!!!

So go ahead hate us or fight with us more!!!

teggy · May 31, 2008, 5:27am

Re: Why do they hate us?

Lets not get overwhelmed. Partition was an equal loss of life for all sides, Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus. No one's life is more precious than another.

I'm sure a countless number of Hindus were killed as a result to the emotions running high on all sides too.

It's something that should never repeat again. Lets not stir up old wounds when it's time to put our differences aside and cooperate on all ends and be good neighbors. The example of GS is such that we want Indian friends of all faiths to continue posting because their opinion offers an insight we may otherwise lack.

So keep posting people, but please lets be a little more considerate of each other's feelings/emotions/sentiments.