Why do they hate us?

Re: Why do they hate us?

^^

It sometimes helps to read what you write. That would give you a proper perspective..

In your hurry to justify what you think is right, you have forgotten basic history and common sense...

Let me try and make you understand why it is important to read your posts before you hit the submit button

1) You mention that the hindus are feeling humiliated for the 1000s or years of subjugation under the muslim rule. Please understand that the Muslim religion is itself not 1000s of years old. I tried to reason with you, but you fail to understand.

2) Change of name of citiies: Could you please give me one instance of a name change being effected due to the fact that it was a muslim name to the city. Dont give me examples like Bombay, Calcutta, Madras etc. If you would want to know why the names were changed, please google.

3) Destruction of mosques : It was just an aberration that happened.

Indians have moved on in life. It is only a matter of time before India becomes a country that is recogonised the world over for its illustrious citizens.

Coming back to the topic, my two cents is that when a country is divided it is but natural for its citizens to harbour ill-will. I dont think I have to give specific examples, but it would help to remember the Koreas, Germany etc. As time passes and people give more importance to business, this ill-will might go away.

Aurangabad, Maharashtra was officially renamed Sambhajinagar back in 2005.

Others are currently in the works:
Ahmedabad, Gujarat - Karnavati
Allahabad, UP - Prayag Raj
Faizabad - Saket

You act as if Babri Masjid is the only mosque torn down by Hindu mobs in modern India. During the Gujarat riots alone, between 300-500 Muslim holy sites were demolished...including a number of historic landmarks.

Re: Why do they hate us?

still far less'r than mosques demolished in middle east to widen roads and create better infrastructure

wats ur point?? is that a yard stick??

make up ur mind i can give better examples....

Agreed. The hatred has false basis and resoning in their minds and they justify in their mind but deny on the front when confronted.

On the contrary, I have many Indian friends, non muslims, who buy meat from Pakistani stores because they prefer halal meat over what is available in regular stores. I also know of many Indians who rent Pakistani dramas because they are much more interesting than Indian dramas. And finally, I also know many Indian families who go to watch Abida Parveen and Strings and Junoon concerts. Also note how much respect and importance Pakistani artists get when they travel to India.

The misconception is because there are many South Indians or non-hindi speaking Indians who live in the US and their culture is far different than even the North Indian culture let alone Pakistani, so they do not relate to the foods or lifestyles of the North Indians or Pakistanis.

Here in Seattle, we have several restaurants run by Pakistanis and many Indian friends of ours eat there more than even we do as we can cook kababs and biryanis at home but they cannot.

So I guess in reality, I would rather say that it is just a general feeling or misunderstanding perhaps that Indians dislike Pakistanis. In some cases the feelings are mutual for sure, but overall, I think there aren't that many hard feelings as one may think.

And by the way, it is absolutely right that Indian women like Pakistani men, for Pakistani guys are mostly gentlemen, very respectful and polite. I am an Indian married to a Pakistani, and I tell you, Pakistani men are GENTLEMEN.

Whoever has any doubt about 1000 years or so of 'muslim' rule over India must read the history of Indian subcontinent.....

Muslims/Islam brought many great things and freedom from old illogical and backward ways locals were living in this piece of land.

kindly quote some....

How about countering the caste system? banning child marriage? elevating the status of women from being the flame on the husbands funeral pyre to being rulers like Razia Sultana, Chand Bibi etc? or we can talk about the small stuff like the Taj Mahal which you guys pimp all over the world as "your" heritage. So where should we start?

Hello Deedawar,

On the contrary the muslim rule in India was what set the sub-continent back by several centuries - I will give you some concrete instances but there are numerous more.

  • People were converted to Islam by force and coercion
  • Temples were destroyed wantonly
  • Almost no archaeological program was set up resulting in Indian history to be mis-stated by some Europeans
  • Great places of learning such world class universities of Nalanda and Dhakshasheela were not supported adequately resulting in gradua decline of these centres of knowledge
  • While the rest of world was catching up on astronomy, physics and chemistry, the muslim rulers were enjoying vast harems and building peacock thrones at the back of the poor

Yes there were some rare achievements here and there but looking at the length of the reign and breadth of land mass, the verdict is that they were good at conquering but pathetic in ruling as kings.

Regards
Pundit Vikram

The position that people were converted to Islam by force/coercion is laughable because it pre supposes that the untouchables and other lower caste individuals were happy with their lot. I am not even considering the number of sufi saints everywhere and the reverence they are given to this day, the lack of a massive reconversion campaign at any time and suppression of all the minority groups regardless of creed at the hands of the majority.

This is complete falsehood and utter disregard of the facts at hand that have been disproved at this and many other boards many many times. Please do look it up.

Re: Why do they hate us?

are'nt u following caste system in pakistan....why do hear people taking pride in being syed or qureshi.

wat about ahmedi's??? u guys are keepin the system alive .. we have banned it...

Re: Why do they hate us?

^^
I think you have got the Caste system mixed up with Sectarianism.
Again you are making an argument without checking your facts.

Re: Why do they hate us?

Its simply tragic to see the amount of Indians who come to these boards, their minds filled with half-truths, myths and common "word on the Indian street."

I wouldn't blame them. They're taught revisionist history in schools, and to top that off, a steady stream of Anti-Pakistan propaganda on every news channel, out of every loudspeaker at a political rally, and they have absolutely no idea of what the reality is.

Caste system in Pakistan? Wake up honey. We have very lose clans [zaats] and nobody gives a fcuk about them anyway. Living in the mid east, I remember an Indian aunty telling us that how they literally conduct a background check of any new person they meet by talking in huge detail with all the intricasies and complexities of the castes and sub castes. We don't do that in Pak.

Forced conversion of Hindus? Did you know that Islam primarily spread through the work of saints and sufis, from the shrines located in Bengal and Punjab and other parts of NOrthern India?

And talking about forced conversions, who forcefully converted the ENTIRE INDIAN POPULATION from Buddhism to Hinduism? Buddhism which Asoka had instroduced and spread peacefully in his reign? Muslims again?

You guys forgot to mention the 25% Hindus to 2% Hindus in Pak garbage here, which happens to be the first thing any Hindu can relate with Pakistan. And I won't be surprised if another brainwashed Indo comes to these boards and rants about that.

Its time the record is set straight.

I regard your post as from someone who is unthankful and is in denial.

Othe poster has given you some examples however you would outrightly deny those as well.

Muslims gave many many gifts to this land including..

Historical builidings…(India is eating the fruit of these in terms of tourism)…
Cultural up-lifting..like elimination of cast system, language. poetry, music and musical instruments, art, handicrafts, games like polo, respect for women, marrying the widows, eliminating horrible religious act like Sati.
Making a Justice system..which was blind to cast, race or religion etc.

Madarsas and universities, artillary/cannons, soap, use of sulphur, medicines, elimination of mythology and false beliefs, postal system, water supply and sewage system…etc etc. (Locals would only knew to go to the jungle or open field and do the chores or take a bath in rivers like Ganga!!)

If muslims were not present in India…the country would have millions of monkeys, langoors, other animals roaming around the subcontinent and human would slowly become extinct..since locals believed killing an animal was sin!

Please read and read the books written by muslims like Alberuni, Ibne-Batoota, Babar, Jahangir etc.

Its true that all kingdomes do end sometimes for one or other reasons.

Read this..You are doing the same thing as in the article!!!

http://www.themodernreligion.com/assault/india-ext.html

..the hatred against muslims has no boundaries.

How to Exterminate Muslims in India?
Dalit Voice, Editorial, May 16-31. 1999[FONT=‘Arial Unicode MS’]

Muslims ruled over Spain from 712 AD to 1492 AD for 780 years, yet today there are no Muslims in Spain though every aspect of Spanish life has a touch of Islam. Spanish language has many Arabic words, its music has an Arabic tone, its culture has more Arabic influence than the European, and proper nouns in Spanish often have the Arabic prefix al. From 1492, when the last bastion of Muslim political strength Grenada fell, the Muslims of Spain were on the decline and its culmination took place after 120 years when the last batch of Muslim die-hards left Spain in 1612. From that year, Islam vanished from the Spanish horizons.
A particular noteworthy point is that during this period of Islamic decline from Spain, the entire civilised world was ruled by Muslims. The Ottoman Turks had conquered Constantinople in 1553, and were ruling the entire Balkan Peninsula, Egypt was ruled by the powerful Mamiukes, Persia was at its political pinnacle under the Abbasi rulers, and India was ruled by the Moghals. Still Islam vanished from Spain and none of these great Muslim armies did anything to protect the Muslims of Spain. How Islam was ejected from Spain had been a subject of keen study by lndia’s Hindu Nazis in the 30s and 40s of this century. They studied this aspect to be copied in India and to counter this possibility, the Muslim leaders also studied this to prevent a repetition of the Spanish methods because Muslims (forming 11.35% of the population as per 1981 census) as lndia’s single largest minorities have become the biggest headache to the upper caste Hindus. But the present-day Muslims are totally ignorant of the history of Islamic decline in Spain and hence of the designs surrounding it.
Through this we intend to shed a little light on this subject so that the thinking section of the Muslims and their sympathisers may do some more research on this subject. As in India, Spanish Muslims had three categories: (i) the descendants of the original Arabs, (ii) descendants of Arab fathers and Spanish mothers and (iii) Christian converts to Islam. Immediately after the fall of Grenada many of the original Arabs to save their lives (not property, as they were not permitted to carry their wealth) left Spain to Tunisia and Morocco; many died on their journey by the attacking Christian hordes. Rest of the original Arabs who opted to live in Spain itself were subsequently branded ‘foreigners" (as in India) and destroyers of Spain. The other category of Muslims viz. the descendants of Muslim fathers and Christianmothers and converts from Christianity opted to live in Spain believing in the declaration of King Ferdinand that complete religious freedom would be guaranteed. (in India also, we are told that Muslims enjoy full religious freedom and minority rights). The attacks by Christian on their lives and property during the earlier years was pardoned as a temporary phenomenon.
Compare it with the development that took place in India after the partition (1947). But these attacks on Muslim life and property in Spain did not abate but continued for about 50 years with lesser intensity in a sporadic manner, just as it is happening in India today. In the earlier years, the Indian Muslims resisted and fought back. There were mini-battles in the streets, but gradually there were one-sided attacks and every time Muslims were the losers. Of late, the Hindu police itself is let lose to kill the Muslims in India.
While the organized Christian groups were committing such massacres, Ferdinand’s Govt, in Spain adopted the policy of eliminating Muslims from the services and adopting the following measures:-
Arabic was removed from administration,
schools attached to mosques were debarred from teaching academic and secular subjects like science, history, mathematics and philosophy. Only religious teaching could be imparted,
Lessons in history were faked by which the Muslim rule was dubbed as barbaric. Contribution of Muslims to the development of Spain was avoided,
Muslim houses were made objects of constant searching by police on allegations of arms hoarding and secret meetings,
Original Arab Muslims were projected as enemies of Christians and destroyers of Spain.
Christian converts were persuaded to reconvert to Christianity on the ground that their ancestors were forced to become Muslims and as there is no more coercion, they should revert to Christianity.
Muslims who were from Muslim-Christian parentage were branded as *******s and ridiculed and persuaded to revert to Christianity.
Marriages performed in the Islamic manner were directed to be registered with the judicial officers.
Islamic law was declared illegal. Every method followed in Spain is being experimented in India with better precision and timing.
Thus Muslims in Spain were made objects of ridicule, condemnation and continuous attack. Burning of Muslim houses and shops was encouraged to destroy their economy. Mock ceremonies of reconversion of Muslims to Christianity were held and publicized. In India, Hindu Nazis of all hues-Arya Samaj, Ramakrishna Mission, Vishwa Hindu Parishad etc,. are doing the same. The first two generation of Spanish Muslims adopted passive methods to save their religion by teaching Arabic to their children at home and mosques, and telling them orally about the realities but gradually they lost the zeal. When marriages were ordered to be celebrated only through Govt. agencies, Muslims in early stages performed dual marriages - one with the Govt. authorities and again privately in their homes in the Islamic manner. Gradually the second ceremony was given up as even such a private ceremony was banned.
During this period, Muslim masses gradually fell out of the grips of the Muslim leadership and Muslim elites started flocking to Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco and Egypt where they were received with sympathy. Poor Muslim masses were left uncared for. This is exactly what is happening in India. The richer, English-educated Muslims are getting Brahminised. They have become imitators of upper caste Hindus as they live not in Muslim localities but in Hindu areas. The poor Muslims (they form 95% of the Muslim population) live in ghettos and being better followers of Islam, they are left high and dry. Hence they are getting killed in all anti-Muslim riots.
The seeds sown in the first half of the century in Spain started yielding results in the second half. There was no political leadership, no organization to protect Muslims and enlightened personalities to save the situation. Religious leaders knowing nothing but Islamic’ theology tried their best to save the situation, but against heavy propaganda by the Govt. agencies, lures and offers to reconverts, ignorance of Islamic values by the masses and sense of inferiority nurtured in the minds of Muslim masses were too big a force to be undone by the theologians. This needed a political leadership and an organization with arms to counter, but there was none. Those who spoke of invoking the help of Muslim powers of Turkey and Egypt were feared and exposed before the authorities (by the Muslims themselves) to be condemned. Without willing fighters, other Muslim powers could not help. Those who had settled in Turkey and Egypt advised the authorities there to desist’from such a thought as otherwise atrocities on Muslims of Spain would increase. An Ahmed Shah Abdaii was needed but th@'@ was none. And the Muslim masses joined the “mainstream” of Spanish life and the mullahs finding no job for their preaching gradually left Spain. And the last batch to leave Spain consisted of the diehard mullahs in 1612
In India also the political leadership of the Muslims became a tail of the Hindu parties led by the upper castes. Only the theological leadership like that of Moulana Hasan Ali Nadvi has tried to maintain the cultural identity of the Indian Muslims.
This “Spanish experiment” is being tried with greater energy and efficiency in India. Urdu, which is as Islamic in India as Arabic was in Spain, is being eased out. Muslims are voluntarily holding on to madrasas. English-educated richer Muslims are away from the Muslim masses. We saw this at the Tablighe Jamat International conference held in Bangalore (DV, March 15, 1985). They are not going to Muslim countries, but are taking refuge in their psychological and physical seclusion. Any move to organise them to protect the Muslim life and property is branded as communal. Any Muslim flirting, if not supporting the upper castes, is called a “nationalist Muslim”. The gulf between the Muslim masses and educated rich Muslims is widening every day. Mass killing of Muslims is considered something natural by the Muslim leadership itself. Whenever it is raised at international Islamic platforms such actions are called interference in the internal affairs of India. Muslims history is deleted from the syllabus. Names of Muslims who died for India are avoided. A great martyr who died for India like Tippu Sultan is unknown to youngsters, whereas the name of Tantia Tope, who fought not for India but for his pension, and Jhansi Laxmi Bai, who fought for her adopted son’s heirship to the throne, is brought on the lips of every Indian. No Muslim gets awards for his contribution to science, medicine, music, art or gallantry. Even those who fought from the ranks of the ruling Congress Party like Moulana Azad, Kidwai, Syed Mahmood, Humayun Kabir etc. do not have a road or extension named after them. But there are half-a-dozen in the names of each upper caste leaders in our towns and cities. History is being re-written. (“Falsifying Indian History”, DV editorial, April 16, 1985). Muslims are killed daily and their houses and shops burnt. The doors of the Army, police and administration are closed to them. And yet Muslim organizations to protect Islam are coming up like mushrooms. Everybody wants to protect Islam and nobody wants to protect Muslims. We are really worried.
A study of the Ruling Class policies reveals that it has great similarity with the one followed by Ferdinand and Isabelle in Spain. The only difference is that the Hindu upper castes are more sharp and sophisticated because of the limitations imposed in the 20th century by the checks exercisable by the United Nations Human Rights Charter and international public opinion.
The systematic and daily anti-Muslim riots resulting in loss of life and property, and above all the sense of fear in the hearts of every Muslim, elimination of the martial Muslims from the Defence, paramilitary and police forces and brahminising of these forces, closing the doors of appointments in Govt. services and public undertakings, Brahminisation of education and mass.media like radio, TV and advertisement, elimination of Urdu as official language from those areas which form the presentday States of Punjab, Haryana, UP, Bihar, parts of Madhya Pradesh, Maharastra, Andhra Pradhesh and Karnataka overnight in 1947-48, gradual closing of Urdu schools are all examples of positive anti-Muslim policies.
On the brahminical psychological warfare side comes the cries of Personal Law amendment, now diluted as common civil code, greatness of the Indian (Hindu) culture, projection of notorious anti-Muslim personalities like “Mahatma” Gandhi, B. G. Tilak, Madan Mohan Malaviya, Veer Savarkar, Lala Laipat Rai as heroes of India to belittle the contribution of Muslims for the development and progress of the country, re-writing of Indian history, describing Muslim professions like beef-selling as a sin and glorifying cow protection policies, introduction of mechanical slaughter of animals to throw out of job butchers, declaration of import and export business carried on by Muslims as smuggling are policies through which vulnerable Indian masses are misguided, resulting in a psychological anti-Muslim bias. Muslim electoral constituencies are divided horizontally and vertically so that they don’t have an effective voting power anywhere and thrusting upon them ultra-secular Muslim leaders who have started worshipping Hindu idols and such scenes being systematically televised. Unfortunately Muslim leaders, who are dejected with the Govt., repose much confidence in Hindu masses and hope to secure their help ignoring the fact that the poor Hindu (Dalit) masses are as much victims of such a propaganda. And as on this day only seeds are being sown. The harvest is yet to come. When the harvest reason comes, what will be harvested in India is repetition of Spain, unless the Muslims resort to counter measures soon.
It is high time the Muslim/ intelligentsia rises to the occasion to undo the repetition of the history of Spain in India. Islam has always been protected by the Muslim masses and not by the classes. Rich Muslims, who are not even 5% of the Muslim population (with minor exceptions) are joining the upper caste exploiters. They may talk of Islam but they have forgotten the fellow Muslims. Please note: religion does not protect its followers, but followers protect the religion. Remember if Islam has to be saved in India, Muslims have to be saved.

^I am not able to clean up text..sorry.

Deedawar.

i if ur religion has spread peacefully..then why death to the appostates..it speaks volumes of the insecured minds...

u didnt answer the question about ahmedi's???

u forgot jizziya,polygamy,public execution,tawaif,mandi’s among many things bought by the muslims to the sub-continent.

quoting from the sources u have given is as good as quoting ALISINA’S views on islam…u would find such garbage in tonnes across the sites…dont take them seriously dude…

Oldest crime is murder and one of the oldest (illegal) profession is sex for money.

Polygamy, Tawaif and public executions are as old as human history. Nothing particularly to do with muslims who came to Indian subcontinent.

Several men marrying one woman is/was not uncommon in India either and is condemned among muslims.

Please read this…

http://www.americansforunfpa.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=629&srcid=631

India Multiple Husbands, Multiple Woes: Draupadi, the New Slavery

What is “Draupadi”?
The term refers to the merchandising of women who are sold by their families or relatives into non-consensual marriages. In many instances these women are not legally married to the man they are sold to and may end up as virtual household slaves, forced to have sex with him and his unwed brothers or other family members. Most of the women trafficked this way come from the poorer eastern and southern states of India and end up in northern states, such as Haryana and Punjab, where pre-natal sex selection and infanticide have resulted in a severe scarcity of young women.1
Preference for Sons, Discrimination against Girls
At the root of the problem is the preference for male children in India, the low status of girls and women, and the easy accessibility of ultrasound technology to determine the sex of the foetus. Though the Prenatal Diagnosis Techniques Act of 1994 makes it illegal to reveal the sex of an unborn child, the law is routinely flouted. The result is a deepening sex-ratio imbalance in the country—927 girls for every 1,000 boys (in 2001).2 In some areas the situation is much worse. In Haryana, the state in which Delhi is located, only 861 girls are born for every 1,000 boys.3
India’s Missing Girls
In 2001, researchers estimated there were some 35-40 million girls missing from India’s population, a direct result of female foeticide and the deliberate neglect and abuse of baby girls. It could be as high as 50 million today.4 Every year, it is estimated that some half a million girls are aborted in India.5 This has given rise to a widening ‘gender gap’ particularly noticeable in the States of Haryana, Punjab, and the northern parts of Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan.
Dire Consequences
With fewer and fewer girls available for marriage, particularly in areas where the bride ‘famine’ is acute, men will pay between 4,000 and 30,000 rupees (roughly $90 to $670) for a trafficked wife.6 Nearly all trafficked wives end up in small rural farming villages. Usually the entire community is complicit in the practice, which makes it difficult for police to find and rescue these women.
Far from their homes, with no friends or relatives to help out, most of the women sold into this kind of bondage end up living as virtual house slaves, with no rights and no redress. Some who refuse to have sex with other male family members are subsequently killed.7
According to a study commissioned by UNFPA, the growing sex ratio imbalance in the country, particularly in the northern states, will create an ever larger pool of unmarried young men who will, in the near future, have to compete for wives with older men who are also unmarried. “This …will create a bottleneck that is unlikely to be solved solely by delaying marriages,” states the report. “As result, many of these men will not be able to marry.” And this, in turn, will continue to drive the market for trafficked wives.8
No one knows how many adolescent girls and young women are victims of this practice throughout India, but one estimate from a BBC report puts the number of girls trafficked from the poor eastern state of Jharkhand to Haryana at more than 45,000.9

UNFPA in India
UNFPA regards pre-natal sex selection as the worst form of gender-based violence, requiring action on many fronts. Advocacy initiatives against the practice involve working closely with government counterpart agencies, leading NGOs, the media, the entertainment industry, and religious and community leaders throughout the country.
One of the key areas of UNFPA’s current country programme (2003-2007) is the elimination of all forms of violence against women and girls, including pre-natal sex selection.
In 2004, the National Commission on Women organized a national workshop on gender-based violence, producing a widely distributed information kit and facilitating the establishment of family counseling centres to deal with the consequences of domestic violence. The centres, now operating in the five states where UNFPA is active, provide assistance with medical, legal and social justice issues.

Recommendations

  • Eliminate pre-natal sex selection by making it a priority for government agencies and civil society organizations.
  • Enforce existing laws regarding pre-natal sex selection.
  • Provide better data on recent trends and differentials in sex ratio at birth, particularly in the northern states of Haryana and Punjab.
  • Publicize the harmful impacts of sex ratio imbalances throughout the country.
  • Draw attention to the trafficking in wives and get both national and state governments to pass legislation making it illegal.
  • Train police forces to identify victims and develop ways and means to rescue women sold into household slavery.
  • Establish shelters for women who want to escape these kinds of ‘marriages’ and repatriate them to their families or home villages.

1 J. Huggler, “The Price of being a Woman: Slavery in Modern India,” The Independent, April 3, 2006.
2 UNFPA, “India at a Glance,” in Asia and the Pacific at a Glance, UNFPA, New York, 2006.
3 T. Vanderheyden, “Trafficking of Women Rampant in Northern India: 8 Women for Every 10 Men,” LifeSiteNews.com, April 6, 2006, accessed at www.lifesitenews.com.
4 People & Planet, “50 million Missing Girls,” www.peopleandplanet.net web site, accessed on November 2, 2007.
5 Op. cit. 1.
6 Op. cit. 3.
7 Op. cit. 1.
8 C. Guilmoto, Characteristics of Sex-Ratio Imbalance in India and Future Scenarios, UNFPA, New Delhi, October, 2007, p. 11.
9 Op. cit. 3.

Hey I thought you said you were Indian Muslim????

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Re: Why do they hate us?

most of the threads in this forum are a laughing stock to many indians....no wonder....