Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Yes we are Pakistani men, and we are not saints, but we do love, respect, protect and cherish our women, most of us do. People with very limited contact and exposure to the Pakistani population are bound to have a very skewed view if Pakistanis depending upon their own experiences and observations.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
I just stated the obvious.. She is a racist.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
but you are not, so just leave it to that.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
I’ve come to highly doubt your claim of getting remarried. The way you sell the idea of divorce is unique to you. I know plenty of divorced ladies, both Muslim and non-Muslim, but haven’t seen such an enchantment with divorce.
Many things you say in a matter-of-fact way about Pakistani society are not true. I myself have gotten into plenty of street fights with people harassing women of my family. If you’ve heard about, ‘Shahzeb murder case’, you’ll know the guy got killed trying to protect his sister from harassment. So, we do care for our women. You just seem to want to make divorce more enjoyable and popular but we want to make marriage more enjoyable and popular. And then we have limited budget for law enforcement so going for cheaper solutions is the way to go for us.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Yeah I’m pretty sure @Reha 's dad and other men in her family grew up in Pakistan unless she’s counting them too. If she is a victim of abuse then I can understand her resentment for Pakistani men.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
And you are proud to state LGBQ people should not have basic human rights. You essentially called support of LGBQ people disgusting. So on what moral grounds do you even categorize another person as bigoted or prejudiced?
And yes, bringing someone’s divorce into the picture was a low blow.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
well i just conneced the dots and showed the actual picture.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Thank Allah for that!
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
I would like to give my view point regarding why Pakistani men are (apparently) so sexually frustrated. First I dont think Pakistani men are an exception,I believe men everywhere have similar desires/sexual attitudes. Second my personal experience has been to come in contact with many shareef Pakistani men in my family and relatives. What I think is the cause of sexual frustration is:
1- As someone else pointed out, men in Pakistan get married in their 30’s which is too late to satisfy their desires. This sounds like a plausible cause.
2- Second, I have personally pondered on why our people, in general, are so ignorant? This ignorance includes not just sexual frustration, which is the last of my concerns with our nation. It is lack of motivation/ interest in developing the country in technology, bettering the society, diminishing poverty, giving equal rights to every person regardless of their religious beliefs, lack of logical thinking, having set beliefs, being forceful and opinionated, feeling entitled etc that really bothers me. I have thought again and again about this and I personally feel the general cause of this is because our people are “too religious” and that probably makes them less motivated to work hard in bettering the country and developing it. For most people, having a good job and kids is enough to live a good life. There are very few Pakistanis, or broadly speaking muslims in general who really want to make a positive impact on Earth/society, or to contribute to its betterment. People in Pakistan are just not motivated enough, their only motivation is either money or luxuries (gold, makaan, having successful children, cars etc) while others are motivated by their sense of religion (keeping beard, having shalwar pancha above knees, offering namaz in a specific way). These kind of people abound in our country, and I am not bashing them, I do think the above mentioned motivations are legitimitely found in every society, its just that these things have now become our “Primary purpose” in life which is really dangerous.
In short it is a lack of purpose and desire to do something extraordinary in life that pushes Pakistani people to either end of the spectrum (i.e. being too religious, or being too luxury-seeking).
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
lmao…
the thread was about liberala vs conservative? now its all about pakistan, pakistani men, brainwashed pakistani women, paksitani islam, and pakistani legisltation…
wt the actual fk…
ps: bring the All Views forum back…shhit like this used to be posted there…now there is just cafe with lol and lel and stuff..
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
I couldn’t agree more to you. My parents weren’t getting along with eachother and tried to divorce several times. However, the people in family kept shoving them back together. I would say more harm was done to my mother who could have no more of my father’s family. People cursed my mother for “leaving her husband’s home”. “Aurat ka kam hai bardasht krna”. Eventually my mother became a patient of depression and then schizophrenia. No one cares obviously, people are there to laugh at her and be happy of what a mess has become of her. The children for which she had to sacrifice her freedom, as others told her, are now enjoying their lives. Father has a second wife to take care of him. Who has suffered? who is to take responsibility of that? Pakistani people are really blind and ignorant. Our attitude towards women is just disgusting. Offcourse I have seen many many women with good and caring husbands, bashing my mother for not doing their so called “sabr”.
Divorce is just not acceptable. First off women are married without making them financially stable, then they have to suffer at the hands of susral or their husband, they have to forego their career, if any, they have to do “sabr”, its their duty, as enjoined by our society’s version of "Islam. They have to have kids and then have “bardasht” for the sake of kids. It is brutal and whats even more brutal is Pakistani people turning a blind eye to these atrocities committed in our society. People have ahard time accepting that West is so much better than us in providing safety, security and freedom to their citizens in general. West is so much better than us in most ways and people have a hard time accepting that. Most people who think women are doing fine in pakistan have never really been through the torture. They just can’t look beyond their own lives and experiences.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
For a start, The maulvis are all up and against the DNA testing to confirm rape. Talk about ISLAM! They still require 4 gawah for confirmation of rape, or it goes unreported/unnoticed. The version of Islam these maulvis are perpetrating is shaking and has doomed our country.
Also those ranting that rape rates are high in US should know that rape rates are calculated when you take ino account the “reported cases”. Rape, in west, includes forced sex even if the girl was unclothed with the man in a party. The kind of rape that happens in Pakistan is much worse. Rapes are never reported, probably 1% of rapes are reported and only recently they have made it into the news. And the news is only reporting the extreme cases of rape with children. The rape of girls and aunties is not even reported in media or police!
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Your logic is very flawed. Zubair (RA) could be one of those going to the heaven, but it does not mean that he was free of sin, and sin needs to be punsihed. Are you implying, that you can get into heaven even when beating your wife? Or are you implying that Zubair (RA) must have been doing right to beat his wife as he was granted heaven? Lol now I understand why angraiz people are abusing Muslims/Islam.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
That’'s incorrect. You are so ignorant on this. That’s called lack of Islamic knowledge.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
What I have noticed in these men is that they would never want their daughters to be under the version of Islam that they promote and applied on their wives. It is so true. That is why we see so many girls getting higher education in Pakistan, because they dont want maulvis/maulvi mentality husbands for their daughters, even if they had been the ones practicing/promoting it on their wives. What I find ironic is the men promoting these Islamic laws that women can not work etc, would want their daughters to be doctors or engineers. They would never want their daughters to be maids to their damaad’s family. They would want their daughters to be completely independent and worthy/respected.
Most muslims are aware of how impractical (unrequired from Allah) it is to follow 1400 years old “culture” (Sorry, what they call Islam is just Arab culture and even arabs have had enough of this culture and are now moving forward, esp with women.). Hijab is just one example of culture dissolving with religion. No Allah does not want a muslim woman, for eg. in europe to dress in hijab. IT will bring more attention to her than a woman in jeans. Modesty is not hijab. Allah is very precise in his choice of words and as I read, He wisely uses the words “dress modestly”. He does not make it compulsory, or even afzal to choose only black as the color that women can wear. I do not support the be-ghairat culture promoted by west, but I also do not support the burka culture of muslims, unless it is worn by a woman as her choice. (I personally wear burka as a cultural requirement of living in ara country.)
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Can you explain what you found incorrect?
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
: Does Islam require a victim to provide four witnesses before it can be proven that she was raped?
[HR][/HR]*This is, unfortunately, a very common and very serious misconception amongst many Muslims — not only the average Muslim, but Muslims who would call themselves scholars of Islam. The very short answer to the question is: No. Islam does not require a woman to produce any eye-witnesses to prove that she was raped.
*AND THOSE WHO CALUMNIATE CHASTE WOMAN BUT BRING NOT FOUR WITNESSES — FLOG THEM EIGHTY STRIPES AND DO NOT ADMIT THEIR EVIDENCE EVER AFTER.
-(AN-NUR 24:5)
In these verses, it is made clear that four witnesses are required to prove adultery when wife is being accused. This onus is meant to protect women from the evils of men who would destroy a woman’s reputation and name out of spite. If their accusation is honest, they are required to produce four impeccable witnesses to back up their claims against women. If they cannot, the accusers are to be punished severely for falsely accusing a woman and attempting to ruin her, and they are never to be trusted to give evidence again. If four witnesses are produced, the woman may still take a solemn oath swearing her own innocence, and if she does so her word is taken above the words of the accusers and she is to be considered blameless. These extensive protections suggest that it would be foolish to believe that Islam would ever require a woman to go through the pain and suffering of providing four witnesses to her rape.
Islamic legal scholars have deduced that evidence from the Qur’an and Hadith suggest that the crime of rape falls under a different category than the crime of adultery. Adultery is a crime which involves the consent of both parties involved, and therefore both parties are equally responsible for the sin. Rape, on the other hand, is an act of non-consensual violence, and therefore carries with it different legal proceedings, and different punishments.
Hope it helps.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
No, Allah does not want women to wear a hijab or niqab anywhere. The word hijab is used to describe ‘barrier’ or ‘veil’ at various points in the Quran but it never implies a headscarf. Neither does Quran commands women to wear a burqa. Hijab is essentially a traditional and cultural Arab dress ornament descended from Jewish culture.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
Maybe it wasn’t clear in my post, but no where did I mention (or atleast I think) that it is islamic to bring 4 witnesses in rape. I know what Islam actually says. What I pointed out was the problem with Pakistani legislatio which has been taken over by maulvis who are imporing “their” Islam. And their islam states that a rape victim has to produce 4 witnesses. This is nothing that I concocted, you can check its everywhere how maulvis have protested against the DNA testing.
Re: The hypocrisy of liberals
That is exactly what I was saying, hijab/nikab burka is purely cultural, not islamic. And your association of it with Jews is on point. Jewish women are very observant of the headscarf.