In this thread we will discuss the inconsistent stances of liberal school of thought.
The major concern we hear is women harassment and staring at women is first thing they criticize.
First thing, at one hand they are using women as sex object. Women are featured on ads that hardly consumed by women, men shaving cream etc. Why do they employ women in marketing jobs, campaign, ads? The main reason is to attract the masses with a sex object that is women.
I wonder why would they complain against staring at women when they already employing women as sex object?
why are they challenging the natural urge of sex by making men look picture of women. But when the same guy look at women in public with some “desire” which is likely to increase due to women doing marketing stuff, they criticize this increased natural urge, and call people sexually frustrated?
Dont you see cause and effect scenario? why not criticize the cause?
This is hilarious. First, you are assuming that the type of people who create ads that objectify women are “liberals” who are all about women’s sexual agency when that is not the case, so this “gotcha” thread falls apart right here. Then you are also assuming that the “liberals” who are for women’s sexual agency or whatever *support *the objectification of women in the first place when, again, the people who you are trying to call out generally don’t.
But this thread is truly a meme. You’re trying to create this scenario where the poor menz are compelled to leer at or make lewd comments towards Susan or Zainab at the office because they saw Liberal approved™ pretty ladies in Axe deodorant ads.
Your POV frees men from all responsibility and obligation religiously and that makes it flawed. You are required to observe hijab of the eyes regardless of what is happening around you. You are still answerable for it. You are not being to made to look at diddly squat and if you feel so pressured, maybe its time to evaluate the strength and purity of your Imaan. Why is that all you can focus on when you see a woman? Because people who have strong faith in Allah don’t seem to get too troubled with this sort of BS. They have other things on their mind like…doing something to please Allah or contribute to this world in a positive way since there is so much suffering. Your priorities dictate your quality.
Also, liberals do not use women as sex symbols. Liberals actually stand against it which is the definition of a liberal. The people who use women on shaving cream ads are normally conservatives who understand that their own people will not buy anything that does not have a female on it.
Next time you hear of someone being sexually frustrated because there is a woman on a shaving cream can, tell them to find a janamaz and start praying for Hidayah, find a needy child and feed them or contribute to the world in a positive way so people don’t remember you as a desperado!
The OP post was very enlightening. I agree that women being in marketing roles is the root cause. Remove women from these marketing roles. What an elegant solution.
Why can’t liberals think of such simple solutions?
Yes, one has to observe hijab, but Muslims are also supposed to head toward an environment where Islamic norms should prevail so that following Islam should not become difficult.
Just because you say liberals dont use women as sex symbol does not refute the fact that somehow they have achieved it systematically, that majority of marketing jobs are being done by women. any guess what is the reason?
And when they are consistent to true liberalism, they are even more dangerous.
Richard Dawkins say “Mild pedophilia is bad. Violent pedophilia is worse. If you think that’s an endorsement of mild pedophilia, go away and learn how to think.”
ok, some might come with an evil excuse like he belongs to a minority group, but you like it or not that is what actually liberalism is. You will hear most of them criticizing death penalty, many criticizing punishment for retributive purpose, arguing that only counseling should be the treatment. Then more number of people would say, what Dawkins say, that dont resist the natural urge and desire of being a pedophile.
The number of male staff in marketing is almost equal to the number of female staff in software and tech industry. you give them jobs that are low earning on average as compared to software and tech industry, for example. and its shame for a true liberal I think.
There are no BUTs in Islam. Hijab of your gaze is fardh on you and there is no excuse for anything less than that. None. If during prayer, you are distracted by the smile of a woman on a shaving cream can…it means your prayers are not important to you and you are not praying with a clean heart. That is YOUR problem. Not a woman’s. As for Muslims heading towards an environment where Islamic customs should prevail…what is the problem? The Prophet’s (pbuh) wife also worked and was quite successful in her line of work. So you cannot use a woman’s employment to justify your lack of Imaan. Her Imaan is what allows her to have a job.
And again…in a country like Pakistan that boasts about being Islamic and Muslim…why is there still prostitution? Child abuse? Rape? Child marriages? Domestic violence? These are crimes in the eyes of Allah so what is stopping a conservative country like Pakistan from having already eradicated them?
Lay off of women, worry about yourselves and keep your Imaan in check. Sorry if its harsh but a woman’s employment is none of anyone’s concern.
First of all, I believe this a topic for culture and not religion.
Regarding the highlighted, I want to add here that our men in Pakistan are sexually frustrated. I have seen it myself in the bazaars when they perform the zina with their eyes, even in cases when the women are with their husband, brother etc.
so you agree that whoever is not following fardh should be declared kafir?
If a man stare at women, its women problem to cope up with that situation, its not men’s problem as it is natural urge, right?
Pakistan is Islamic by label only. Nobody gives votes to Islamic political parties. Pakistani justice system is borrowed from British rule in sub-continent.
what u r saying is honestly nuts, there is no hijab of gaza lol just a new made up concept of modern mullahs, work place is meant for men, and women has to take caution.
as u say its your problem not womens, then similarly men go around with desires, its womens problem not mens,
If a woman doesnt wear properly as per islam, then the outcome may well be her punishment for not following sharia..
Woman has to cover up if critical for a muslim society, and even otherwise. Even if no one is looking,
Prophets wife worked when alot if sharia was not introduced, and in the very early days of Makkah.
This is not how shara rulings are derived, later in Medinah things and rulings were much different. A lot of rulings and habits were different in Makkah, but were finalised in Makkah and made permanent. A woman does not have a free hand in going out whenever and work etc.. Its undisputed view based on Quran
Keeping control of the society and keeping it well is also a part of Islam.
Pakistan never really boasts about being islamic, its always some ppl saying such.. whats stopping pakistan is that ppl dont want to accept their roles and follow whats correct.
p.s. a man can with need look at a womans face, but over all its the womens responsibility to keep herself hidden. not the mans, if u have cash or wealth its ur primary responsibility not anyone else’s..
I don’t believe in labels such as liberal, conservative, rightist, leftist, centrist, radical, fundamentalist, capitalist, protectionist, etc. Individuals represent themselves first and foremost unless they are elected representative of those whom they claim to represent. People’s views on specific issues at specific times is what interests me, aka their track record. I respect genuine opinions even if I disagree with them but not fake ones motivated solely by personal gains. Long time ago I had a teacher at my school who was famous for giving toughest punishments. He used to assume various labels whenever he saw any benefit such as a promotion or a job in NGO. Sometimes he would flaunt his uprightness and sometimes he would hate religion. In late 1990s, he went on to successfully obtain Australian immigration with the same techniques by claiming that Pakistan was unsafe for his kind. In a way he was right because his victims were getting taller, stronger and knew where he lived. Then we have plenty of Amir Liaqats who’ve made it a way of life to feign piousness.
It’s like this is how poorly they think of male self control abilities around women and then they would probably be the same people screeching about the “”~feminazis~" who think all males are potential rapists. The jokes write themselves.
well if you do claim pakistani men to be frustrated, then it could be that they have more sex drive which is known to be the case of ppl living near equator, even in animals.. secondly yes its also coz they dont have ease of sex, in all societies ppl start having sex by late teens, whereas in pak society its way beyond 30 at times, so what do u expect.. remember in maslow’s pyramid of needs sex is rightly categorised as a basic need.
No they dont follow the religion in true spirit often due to culture, religion in such case requires them to marry..
one thing I would like to add is leaving apart the upper calls most pak men dont even really take care of their hygiene or so they dont understand its need, which rightly causes women not to find them appealing.
To some extent all of the above. In the not too distant past people generally had far less religious information compared to these days, yet moral values were far better. One thing that I’ve found to be playing a part in worsening moral values is the trend to continuously remain on the move. In the past people used to stay at one place for 30 or 40 years. They had to worry about their reputation in the neighbourhood which was a huge deterrent against immoral behaviour. Even in order to smoke, guys used to worry about their reputation. I know guys from very rich families who had their rishta rejected by poor families solely due to guy’s bad reputation in the neighbourhood. But now people change homes every 3-4 years, no body knows what they were up to before, and hence don’t have that burden of keeping a good reputation and freely get involved in immoral activities as they please.
You had related sexual frustration to the rise of liberal and feminstic values in pakistan. I somehow think the two are not related at all. In the 80s when the pakistani society was a lot more conservative (only PTV, no huge billboards, Gen Zia was at the helm etc) than it is now, you still had sexual frustration in men.
I would have to agree with some of the posters above.
One’s piety is all about how one controls their nafs. Now Ive seen some highly muttaqqi muslims in Amreeka as well. It is about how you ward off the whispering of the Satan and control your own nafs, rather than expecting women to cover from head to toe and stay at home cos you have a hard time lowering your gaze. Whether a woman covers her body properly is her problem and she will be responsible to Allah but we cannot blame her for our own weakened imaan.
No, its not a woman’s problem as she is not held responsible for random men looking at her. She is answerable for herself and that’s it. She is NOT accountable for a man’s sinful gaze. It is MAN’S job to keep it in his pants. Allah swt does not hold women responsible for a man’s indiscretions.
You have just as much of a responsibility towards your faith all day and everyday to be pious, pure and maintain good character. For example: Allah swt allows a man to MARRY 4 times. Not mess around with random women 4 times. Even your lust has to be confined to the boundaries of MARRIAGE as prescribed by Allah swt. And if you choose to marry again and again, that power is definitely yours but it also comes with responsibilities AS PRESCRIBED BY ALLAH SWT.
You are not an animal. Islam does not free you of responsibilities towards your Deen. You are in control of your body, mind, senses and are a full functioning human being. Please do not forget that.
Omg…its as if men are just foaming at the mouth and cannot control themselves. Its so sick.
Men who blame women for their indiscretions have weak Imaan.
