President rubbishes appointments of CJ!

[samb]

Its easy to blame armywallas forever but what have we achieved so far in 2 years? Any improvement in people's lives other than some civilians (read jiyalas) getting jobs that retired-armywallas were grasping? Sugar, petrol, electricity, gas, security are nowhere to be found yet.

while I will admit that the govt has fared poorly on the domestic front, it is to this govt's credit that Swat has been brought back into the fold... and there is some progress against the animals in the north.

btw, do you really think that as a reasonable person, you want this govt to make Pakistan the lands of milk and honey in two years? armywallas get 10 years in one stretch... and nobody even does meow... and even they do leave khuda khuda kar kay... there are those idiots who start calling them back within months.

[Zakk]

Re: Gov, Judiciary & the dogs !

by the letter of the law zardari and co are in the right but it's a selective application ..they recently did not appoint according to seniority but are only doing so when it seemed to rub IC the wrong way

[Shamraz_Khan]

^ oh yaar keep you biases aside and think of the country, Who is right and who is wrong, that is what we should look at

Actually the CJ is wrong here because of the Al-Jihad Trust Case where the SC declared that the senior most chief justice of a high court to elevated to the SC whenever there is vacancy. In this case the CJ of LHC is the senior most judge who was suppose to be elevated the SC, but the CJ has recommended Saqib Nisar to be made a judge of the Supreme Court in clear violation of his own courts ruling.

[Ali_Syed]

blunders like changing the foreign policy of the country over a phone call? oh sorry that was Musharraf - an armywalla... and hence, the army spin doctors are going to give him a pass on that.

Well Zardari let Musharraf slip away with a 21 gun salute...

[QUOTE]
yeah, there is concrete proof that Zardari killed his own wife right? which is why this garbage was spread across the country? there is concrete proof that Zardari tied a bomb to a man's leg, right? bhai meray, Zardari might be corrupt but at the end of the day he's an insaan ka baccha. he isn't a retard. if he wanted to get money from a guy, there are far easier ways to get them instead of tying a bomb to a guy's leg and ordering him to go withdraw it from the bank.
[/QUOTE]

well Zardari says he knows who killed BB...and the movements of Babar Awan and Rahman Malik at the time of death of BB was quite suspicious...this person can do absolutely anything for money and power, BB had separated him from politics in her last days...

[Ali_Syed]

Actually CJ is wrong here because of the Al-Jihad Trust Case where the SC declared that the senior most chief justice of a high court to elevated to the SC whenever there is vacancy. In this case the CJ of LHC is the senior most judge who was suppose to be elevated the SC, but the CJ has recommended Saqib Nisar to be made a judge of the Supreme Court in clear violation of his own courts ruling.

I agree with you that merit needed to be followed, but then again the constitution also says that the government should consult (article 177) with the CJ before nomination of judges which was also not followed by the govt...

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: President rubbishes appointments of CJ!

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | LHC Chief Justice elevated, CJP takes suo motu notice

Saturday, 13 Feb, 2010

Chief Justice Khwaja Sharif (R) and Justice Saqib Nisar are still considering whether or not to accept the new positions. –APP/ File photo
ISLAMABAD: President Asif Zardari on Saturday elevated the chief justice of the Lahore High Court (LHC) Justice Khwaja Sharif as a judge of the Supreme Court. The decision was taken without any consultation with Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, prompting him to take a suo motu notice of the judges’ appointment.

On the other hand, senior judge Justice Saqib Nisar has been made the acting Chief Justice of the LHC in place of Justice Khwaja Sharif.

The president’s decision conflicted with the reported recommendations of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary, who had recommended that Justice Saqib Nisar be made a judge of the Supreme Court.

However, the government seems to have done the opposite as a result of which Chaudhry took a suo motu notice against the decision of the president, suspending the federal government’s notification over the appointments.

The notification was issued in violation of Article 177 of the state’s constitution that prevents the president from appointing a supreme court judge without the consultation of the Chief Justice.

The CJ immediately constituted a three-member committee – headed by Justice Shakirullah Jan – for an emergency hearing to look into the matter.

The bench has summoned the Attorney General to appear before the court on behalf of the government and explain its viewpoint on the appointments.

Meanwhile, Federal Minister for Information Qamar Zaman Kaira said that the orders for the appointment of the judges were issued under constitutional provisions.

On the other hand, Chief Justice Khwaja Sharif and Justice Saqib Nisar are still considering whether or not to accept the new positions. Sources told DawnNews that both of them will consider the validity of the government notification before taking oath.

According to a BBC report, Justice Saqib Nisar has officially refused to take oath. “I will not take oath as acting Chief Justice of LHC,” Justice Saqib Nisar told BBC Urdu in an interview. “I will do what CJ Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry asks me to.”

On the other hand, Senior Advocate Justice Fakhruddin G. Ebrahim has ruled out any clash between the judiciary and the executive. “How is it wrong to elevate the senior most person as the judge of the Supreme Court? Why are we unnecessarily creating a controversy?” questioned Ebrahim.

Presidential spokesman Farhatullah Babar further rejected any clash between the judiciary and the executive, confirming that “emergency is not being imposed.” –DawnNews

[samb]

According to a BBC report, Justice Saqib Nisar has officially refused to take oath. "I will not take oath as acting Chief Justice of LHC," Justice Saqib Nisar told BBC Urdu in an interview. "I will do what CJ Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry asks me to."

erm... is the judiciary an institution or a khilafat?

[quote]
On the other hand, Senior Advocate Justice Fakhruddin G. Ebrahim has ruled out any clash between the judiciary and the executive. "How is it wrong to elevate the senior most person as the judge of the Supreme Court? Why are we unnecessarily creating a controversy?" questioned Ebrahim.
[/QUOTE]

for me personally, this is enough. this great man has more credibility than anyone involved in this childish controversy. all involved parties should listen to him, pick up their toys and go back to their respective rooms.

[Shamraz_Khan]

I agree with you that merit needed to be followed, but then again the constitution also says that the government should consult (article 177) with the CJ before nomination of judges which was also not followed by the govt...

Well, the Al-Jihad Trust Case kind of made appointments to superior judiciary automatic, and in a way nullified article 177 because of automatic appointment of the senior most CJ of HCs. The CJ this time is dragging judiciary in confrontation with executive, and that is never good thing for a country. The courts job is interpret the Constitution as it is, and not make and break rules as it goes.

[ehsan]

Actually the CJ is wrong here because of the Al-Jihad Trust Case where the SC declared that the senior most chief justice of a high court to elevated to the SC whenever there is vacancy. In this case the CJ of LHC is the senior most judge who was suppose to be elevated the SC, but the CJ has recommended Saqib Nisar to be made a judge of the Supreme Court in clear violation of his own courts ruling.

that may be so but than the president should have sent recommendations back to CJ giving these reasons and not breaking the constitution by appointing judges without consulting CJ.

The correct way for the president was to send the recommendations back with reasons not act silly.

[firenze]

Re: President rubbishes appointments of CJ!

Well, the Al-Jihad Trust Case kind of made appointments to superior judiciary automatic, and in a way nullified article 177 because of automatic appointment of the senior most CJ of HCs. The CJ this time is dragging judiciary in confrontation with executive, and that is never good thing for a country. The courts job is interpret the Constitution as it is, and not make and break rules as it goes.

Thank you !

[ehsan]

Well, the Al-Jihad Trust Case kind of made appointments to superior judiciary automatic, and in a way nullified article 177 because of automatic appointment of the senior most CJ of HCs. The CJ this time is dragging judiciary in confrontation with executive, and that is never good thing for a country. The courts job is interpret the Constitution as it is, and not make and break rules as it goes.

You cant nulify articles of the constitution to justify wrongdoings of anyone. Constitution is supreme and should be followed. If the Al jihad case was in voilation of the constitution than govt or someone should have taken it to the court.

No justification for what the govt did today. What is wrong is wrong.

[samb]

that may be so but than the president should have sent recommendations back to CJ giving these reasons and not breaking the constitution by appointing judges without consulting CJ.

The correct way for the president was to send the recommendations back with reasons not act silly.

I thought he already did that once?

[ehsan]

from what i am hearing, their is interesting movement is going on in Rawalpindi. THEY are waiting for Bench decision !

You should be happy, you supported the last military govt to the hilt. :D

[Shamraz_Khan]

You cant nulify articles of the constitution to justify wrongdoings of anyone. Constitution is supreme and should be followed. If the Al jihad case was in voilation of the constitution than govt or someone should have taken it to the court.

No justification for what the govt did today. What is wrong is wrong.

EB, I'm not arguing wrong or right. I'm just point out what the facts are. We have precedent set by the SC court, and clearly as you can see, the CJ is trying to go against his own courts ruling. He should not have recommended Justice Saqib Nisar because of Al-Jihad Trust Case on the 1st place. BTW, I have yet to see why the CJ of LHC cannot be appointed to the SC. From what I understand he is very competent jurist, but its the CJ ego that is coming in the way.

[hanibal]

yeah there we go with the BUT. please stop making excuses and hiding behind words. if you support the army taking over, say so... don't hide behind words. this is the new fashion. oh jee I don't support the army taking BUT...

yup there is but because thers incompetent like zardari the god of PPP.. i never supported Mush.. so please aviod personal attack and try to be logical, ofcourse it can be difficult while defending someone like zardari

and it is this BUT that gives armywallas a decade to ruin the country...

not a single army general was able to ruin it without a support of politicians

blunders like changing the foreign policy of the country over a phone call? oh sorry that was Musharraf - an armywalla... and hence, the army spin doctors are going to give him a pass on that.

keeping/following the decisions ( blunders) is another blunder, can you please tell how a decision which was a biggest blunder is not blunder any more under ppp's govt..

yeah, there is concrete proof that Zardari killed his own wife right? which is why this garbage was spread across the country? there is concrete proof that Zardari tied a bomb to a man's leg, right? bhai meray, Zardari might be corrupt but at the end of the day he's an insaan ka baccha. he isn't a retard. if he wanted to get money from a guy, there are far easier ways to get them instead of tying a bomb to a guy's leg and ordering him to go withdraw it from the bank.

The man is sitting at the top most position in Pakistan, yet he is unable to name them, proves that if he has not done it, then he is incompetent and not eligible person to be at the position where he is unable to investigate his own wife's murder...

it is this kind of half baked nonsense by the likes of brigadier Ranjha who believe that they're better than the bloody civilians that I'm referring to. you would also be able to spot it too if you weren't blinded by your hatred of the PPP.

OMG... how friggin old are you?

has Zardari broken the country? no that was Yahya. has Zardari embroiled the country in sectarian violence, encouraged religious extremism, allowed the drug and gun culture to flourish? no, that was actually Zia. has Zardari given us gifts like suicide bombings, the Pakistani Taliban, Fazlullah, Baitullah, Muslim Khan, etc? no, that was Musharraf.

yeah, Zardari is indeed worse than these dictator dogs.

//quote]

yes Zardari is worse, as the name you have mentioned are hisotry, and this scum called zardari is still on, we don't know the potential of damage he may cause... yes i am saying that zardari is in competition with these generals and i am sure he will win by a margin...

[quote="samb, post:55, topic:215658"]

I'm trying to restrain myself... though I feel like using much more colorful language 'cause you outright lie to make things fit your world view.

let us know your up bringing..

YOU DELICATE GENIUS, YOU DO REALIZE WHEN THESE ILLEGAL ABDUCTIONS STARTED RIGHT? AND YOU DO REALIZE THAT THEY'RE DONE ON THE BEHEST OF THE ARMYWALLAS UNDER MUSHARRAF, RIGHT? MOST OF THE PPL DISAPPEARED IN MUSHARRAF'S TIME.

we have thrown the one who started it, now it is zardari who have taken up the task, please update yourself with some information before getting into discussions... i am not here to educate you..

this political govt has been trying to stop them. but obviously hasn't been able to. argh... I feel like pulling my hair out.

from last two years if they have been trying to, and yet not successful then the govt should bring the responsible persons in media or public, but what we are witnessing is, there is no sign whatsoever that govt is doing anything to bring those persons back.. nor does it looks like they have stopped the practice...

[Decent_6Chora]

I agree with you that merit needed to be followed, but then again the constitution also says that the government should consult (article 177) with the CJ before nomination of judges which was also not followed by the govt...

how masoomly you have said that "merit needed to be followed" when its not only MERIT. Its the decision which is BINDING just as you advocating for Iffiti's decisions. That Al-Jihad trust decision stands binding UNLESS some other decision by larger bench over rules that. :)

and Al-Jihand trust case says that the appointment will be considers "automatic" appointment just waiting for the notification. So in essense it overrides the 177. No matter how you add it, 2+2 will not be equal to 5 for Iffti this time. He is wrong but he is just in taqat ka nasha. He wants to keep Khowaja as CJ of highcourt in case he need him.

[Ali_Syed]

how masoomly you have said that "merit needed to be followed" when its not only MERIT. Its the decision which is BINDING just as you advocating for Iffiti's decisions. That Al-Jihad trust decision stands binding UNLESS some other decision by larger bench over rules that. :)

and Al-Jihand trust case says that the appointment will be considers "automatic" appointment just waiting for the notification. So in essense it overrides the 177. No matter how you add it, 2+2 will not be equal to 5 for Iffti this time. He is wrong but he is just in taqat ka nasha. He wants to keep Khowaja as CJ of highcourt in case he need him.

What about article 177???

[Decent_6Chora]

What about article 177???

Court's duty is to translate the article and define the pre-conditions and thats what SC did in Al-Jihad trust case. Court defined the parameters & conditions for CJ's recommendations that he SHOULD recommend the SENIOR MOST judge.

[firenze]

Re: President rubbishes appointments of CJ!

This time it's CJ ego.. he should be gone on this .. but .. yeh right !

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: President rubbishes appointments of CJ!

anyways, no matter how CJ and Zardari wants to play this, referee will only be Kiyani. He will be the one blowing whistles