Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
That article is basically glorifying underage sex. Who's taking this stuff seriously here?
Some sickos in my TL were are actually justifying underage sex.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
That article is basically glorifying underage sex. Who's taking this stuff seriously here?
Some sickos in my TL were are actually justifying underage sex.
Isn't it legal(in most places where pre-marital sex is legal) as long as it's with someone close to your age? And it's open season once you hit 18 or whatever the age is where you live.
The article's problem is her saying everyone's doing it irrespective of their religious inclinations or socie-economic class. STIs would be the last thing on someones mind while engaging in pre-marital sex. Heck, I'd be worried about the woman's dad, uncles, brothers, molvi and neighbors coming to get me if someone found out. Yeah, I'd rather stay alive. And that's one woman. I wouldn't sleep with 12 unless I had a death wish or had tons of money/power/influence.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
what's TL?
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Given the fact that she claims to have had 12 partners before age 18, that leaves us with two possible explanations.
A. She was molested, raped, abused by some pedophiles at the ages of 13, 14, and 15. No matter which country you live in girls that young simply are not mature enough to give consent. And no 12 to 15 yr old boy is that daring to try this knowing the dire consequences upon being caught. This terrible abuse obviously impacted her mental growth and resulted in her skewed view of sexual behaviors.
B. If she truly did have consensual relationships between ages of 16-19 that leaves us with 3 partners a year. How ugly or terrible in bed do you have to be that 12 guys dumped you back to back even after you are sleeping with them.
Either way she needs serious therapy, antidepressants, and a good role model. This diary entry is probably a call for help.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Isn't it legal(in most places where pre-marital sex is legal) as long as it's with someone close to your age? And it's open season once you hit 18 or whatever the age is where you live. .
No.
In "most places" underage sex is illegal - consent or no consent.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Isn't it legal(in most places where pre-marital sex is legal) as long as it's with someone close to your age?
You're confusing two things. If two 15-year olds have sex, neither of them will be prosecuted IF they both consented to it. The reason behind this policy is the BOTH of them are underage and unable to consent, and both are technically offenders and victims.
This does not change that fact that in most places, teenagers under a certain age do not have legal capacity to consent. That's why they cannot enter into a legal contract, that's why there are separate juvenile laws that regulate crimes committed by them etc.
The big problem with this article is that author doesn't state WHEN she started engaging in sexual activity. While I find the idea of multiple partners disturbing, if I hear that a 17-year old is sexually activity because she's dating another 17-year old.....that wouldn't shock me. On the other hand, if a 13-year old is sexually active, I personally don't know ANYONE who would be ok with that....regardless of their view in premarital sex.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
You're confusing two things. If two 15-year olds have sex, neither of them will be prosecuted IF they both consented to it. The reason behind this policy is the BOTH of them are underage and unable to consent, and both are technically offenders and victims.
This does not change that fact that in most places, teenagers under a certain age do not have legal capacity to consent. That's why they cannot enter into a legal contract, that's why there are separate juvenile laws that regulate crimes committed by them etc.
The big problem with this article is that author doesn't state WHEN she started engaging in sexual activity. While I find the idea of multiple partners disturbing, if I hear that a 17-year old is sexually activity because she's dating another 17-year old.....that wouldn't shock me. On the other hand, if a 13-year old is sexually active, I personally don't know ANYONE who would be ok with that....regardless of their view in premarital sex.
I concede.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
The way she is talking, even liberal educated Americans will raise eyebrows. I know many of my poor uneducated patients don't live like that either. You don't call up strangers and ask them if they'll "go down on" you. She sounds like she has a serious sex addiction. Transcribing that on a whole country shows how immature and reckless she is.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
The way she is talking, even liberal educated Americans will raise eyebrows. I know many of my poor uneducated patients don't live like that either. You don't call up strangers and ask them if they'll "go down on" you. She sounds like she has a serious sex addiction. Transcribing that on a whole country shows how immature and reckless she is.
I know many men that do this. I mean they don't call, they text but it happens. There was a whole app built around the hook up culture! LOL
I'm still glad she's doing what she wants to do (again her body, her right) and has the freedom of speech to write about it whether people agree or not. She's opened up a dialogue which I like. She's different from the norm, which I like.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
A very incoherent and poorly written piece...she does waffle and ramble a lot.
Attention seeking wanna-be journalist.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
I'm still glad she's doing what she wants to do (again her body, her right) and has the freedom of speech to write about it whether people agree or not. She's opened up a dialogue which I like. She's different from the norm, which I like.
I wonder if you're trolling...if you're sitting behind the screen getting a kick out of making vapid comments.
Many people "differ from the norm"...and will voice their opinion with greater confidence than Ms. Haider....and thus open dialog....but is that a good enough reason to "like" them...or to be "glad" that they're "doing what they want"...? If Ms. Haider had spoken up about her sexual escapades with 1 or 2 people...it would be one thing....but for a teen to have slept with 12 people makes her an extreme case. You're defending an outlier. Plenty of outliers out there....Donald Trump...Satanists...you name it...lol. Being bold and outspoken will always open up dialog...but is that reason enough to be "glad" that they opened their mouths?
Let's talk about "different from the norm." According to you, North American society is overall desensitized so that would make the Desis who have managed to avoid premarital sex the outliers...no? Considering that they managed to avoid committing zina in the midst of the temptations around them ...would make them "different from the norm"...no? It would place them on the other end of the spectrum....so when this group of people openly speaks out against promiscuity....and mind you they are not condemning the fornicators to the fiery depths of hell...but are intelligently discussing the societal consequences....somehow that doesn't "gladden" you at all....not nearly as much as a more emotional but vapid type of confident outspokenness....and ofsos ki baat hai.
If outliers appeal to you, then there are more positive examples to "gladden" your heart with, Terebina. What about Edhi, for instance? How about the folks who have made a more positive difference with their mouths and limbs as opposed to the ones using mainly their genitals for fame? You said that there are bigger fish to fry...more pressing issues to worry about such as education. What are YOU doing for Pakistan's education dilemma? See, this is called deflection. Rather than intelligently address the issue being discussed at hand...you are deflecting attention to education. People tend to do that. You speak of a sin like zina...and they'll talk about gossip and murder. Why not focus on the topic at hand. Education is a fundamental issue....but one's health...and the institution of marriage and family ...are also very fundamental and they are at risk when zina becomes rampant and accepted and even lauded. Jahan tak "education" ki baat hai....to parhi likhi to Zehra Haider...bhi hai...she knows the consequences of promiscuity...but she doesn't care...and I don't find that variety of boldness to be impressive. It's entertaining, it definitely opens up dialog ad evident from this thread, but it's nothing impressive. If your own daughter or loved one was to emulate Zehra's lifestyle...how "glad" would you truly be I wonder.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
She is basically just pissed off at the Pindi buoys who refused lay with her
Such a attention seeker
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
You’re funny Waleed bhai. 
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Am I the only one thought 'sexual relations' might not have necessarily meant sleeping with them all? As Paheli said the writing is a bit vague though.. Here in the UK I remember friends doing such things at 16/17/18 but most have settled down and are happily married now.. Admittedly I don't know of any desi girls admitting to this sort of thing but like Terebina the story doesn't hugely shock or surprise me..
There are some strange assumptions being made, such as she needs serious therapy or she must have been molested.. Yes, it's quite unusual for one of our girls to be like this but imo that's a bit of a stretch..
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Am I the only one thought 'sexual relations' might not have necessarily meant sleeping with them all? As Paheli said the writing is a bit vague though.. Here in the UK I remember friends doing such things at 16/17/18 but most have settled down and are happily married now.. Admittedly I don't know of any desi girls admitting to this sort of thing but like Terebina the story doesn't hugely shock or surprise me..
There are some strange assumptions being made, such as she needs serious therapy or she must have been molested.. Yes, it's quite unusual for one of our girls to be like this but imo that's a bit of a stretch..
I don't think it's about being shocked.....for me at least it's not. I'm sure everyone can probably recall at least ONE individual from their social circle that was out there and less discriminatory about their liaisons.
It's more about the laissez-faire attitude of the author; that this sort of behaviour is okay and shouldn't be condemned.
The whole "my body, my choice" is great and I condone that but when you decide to promote actions that are reckless and generally threaten to destroy the moral fibre of society when adopted, then is it wrong to question the author's right to freedom of speech?
And if you suggest that regardless of the consequences, she has the right to say her piece, then, in my opinion, it becomes that much more necessary to speak up and point out the flaws with her theories.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
^I do believe in freedom in speech because if there's a good counter-argument that can also be brought forward..
I'm not personally advocating sleeping with one person after another in case anyone is thinking that but in my eyes it's not worse than marrying our kids off to people without asking/consulting them (which was and still is the norm in many families).. It's probably a discussion for another time but I'm mentioning it because a breakdown in societal morals was mentioned and to me the traditional system is not necessarily morally superior because of that..
Btw I meant to reply to the slippery slope comment earlier but lost track.. Most people who are ok with pre-marital relationships would draw the line at not giving consent and/or lying and betrayal (for example being involved with someone married)..
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
That comment is pertinent, if she dumped 12 people then she has some issues, if 12 people dumped her then she has much bigger issues and if she was just on sex fest, then she is what is popularly called slut.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
^I do believe in freedom in speech because if there's a good counter-argument that can also be brought forward..
I'm not personally advocating sleeping with one person after another in case anyone is thinking that but in my eyes it's not worse than marrying our kids off to people without asking/consulting them (which was and still is the norm in many families).. It's probably a discussion for another time but I'm mentioning it because a breakdown in societal morals was mentioned and to me the traditional system is not necessarily morally superior because of that..
Btw I meant to reply to the slippery slope comment earlier but lost track.. Most people who are ok with pre-marital relationships would draw the line at not giving consent and/or lying and betrayal (for example being involved with someone married)..
So are you saying that the "traditional system" which promotes monogamous relationships and discourages promiscuity is not morally superior to the sort of lifestyle that OP is condoning?
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
And I've said it before...you have some folks who love to deflect from the subject at hand. When there's a discussion on zina...deflectors will say, "yeah but gossiping is much worse." Two different things...stick to the subject.
What is the argument being made here? That a marriage certificate or a nikahnama doesn't necessarily validate sexual relations? Or reckless sex with a gajillion partners that entails MUTUAL consent is better/superior than having only one sexual partner in a forced marriage that is not legitimate according to shariah in the first place? So we're comparing wrong with wrong ....haram with haram...and measuring whether they're equally worse or one is worse than the other? Or is it a defensive retaliation of "Oh yeah...well the conservative cultures are no better than the liberal one?" Just focus on Zehra's situation. Is promiscuity better/worse than exercising sexual relations only within the confines if a VALID and mutual marriage? Which of the two bodes better for society on the whole? Unchecked recklessness of Zehra's variety......or having some boundaries/limits? Which results in more benefits or harm. Compare right to wrong......don't compare 2 wrongs to point our that one messed up approach or system us just as bad as another.
Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan
Agreed.
And next we’ll have to compare whether the person that partakes in zina but offers daily salat on time is better or the person that backbites and practices hijab but doesn’t manage to offer salat on time is morally in the right… 