Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

[terebina786]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

@redvelvet

I wonder if you’re trolling…if you’re sitting behind the screen getting a kick out of making vapid comments.

Many people “differ from the norm”…and will voice their opinion with greater confidence than Ms. Haider…and thus open dialog…but is that a good enough reason to “like” them…or to be “glad” that they’re “doing what they want”…? If Ms. Haider had spoken up about her sexual escapades with 1 or 2 people…it would be one thing…but for a teen to have slept with 12 people makes her an extreme case. You’re defending an outlier. Plenty of outliers out there…Donald Trump…Satanists…you name it…lol. Being bold and outspoken will always open up dialog…but is that reason enough to be “glad” that they opened their mouths?

Let’s talk about “different from the norm.” According to you, North American society is overall desensitized so that would make the Desis who have managed to avoid premarital sex the outliers…no? Considering that they managed to avoid committing zina in the midst of the temptations around them …would make them “different from the norm”…no? It would place them on the other end of the spectrum…so when this group of people openly speaks out against promiscuity…and mind you they are not condemning the fornicators to the fiery depths of hell…but are intelligently discussing the societal consequences…somehow that doesn’t “gladden” you at all…not nearly as much as a more emotional but vapid type of confident outspokenness…and ofsos ki baat hai.

If outliers appeal to you, then there are more positive examples to “gladden” your heart with, Terebina. What about Edhi, for instance? How about the folks who have made a more positive difference with their mouths and limbs as opposed to the ones using mainly their genitals for fame? You said that there are bigger fish to fry…more pressing issues to worry about such as education. What are YOU doing for Pakistan’s education dilemma? See, this is called deflection. Rather than intelligently address the issue being discussed at hand…you are deflecting attention to education. People tend to do that. You speak of a sin like zina…and they’ll talk about gossip and murder. Why not focus on the topic at hand. Education is a fundamental issue…but one’s health…and the institution of marriage and family …are also very fundamental and they are at risk when zina becomes rampant and accepted and even lauded. Jahan tak “education” ki baat hai…to parhi likhi to Zehra Haider…bhi hai…she knows the consequences of promiscuity…but she doesn’t care…and I don’t find that variety of boldness to be impressive. It’s entertaining, it definitely opens up dialog ad evident from this thread, but it’s nothing impressive. If your own daughter or loved one was to emulate Zehra’s lifestyle…how “glad” would you truly be I wonder.

I skimmed through this… but yeah not trolling. I’m entitled to my opinion as you are yours

[terebina786]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

And I've said it before...you have some folks who love to deflect from the subject at hand. When there's a discussion on zina...deflectors will say, "yeah but gossiping is much worse." Two different things...stick to the subject.

What is the argument being made here? That a marriage certificate or a nikahnama doesn't necessarily validate sexual relations? Or reckless sex with a gajillion partners that entails MUTUAL consent is better/superior than having only one sexual partner in a forced marriage that is not legitimate according to shariah in the first place? So we're comparing wrong with wrong ....haram with haram...and measuring whether they're equally worse or one is worse than the other? Or is it a defensive retaliation of "Oh yeah...well the conservative cultures are no better than the liberal one?" Just focus on Zehra's situation. Is promiscuity better/worse than exercising sexual relations only within the confines if a VALID and mutual marriage? Which of the two bodes better for society on the whole? Unchecked recklessness of Zehra's variety......or having some boundaries/limits? Which results in more benefits or harm. Compare right to wrong......don't compare 2 wrongs to point our that one messed up approach or system us just as bad as another.

This is subjective based on someone's beliefs.. What is better? The feeling of it? The "halal-ness" of it. What defines better? What if said person doesn't believe in marriage and never want to get married? What if said person is an atheist and doesn't care to answer to a higher being? Also I think the argument is not necessarily is promiscuity because there are people who are Muslim and have sex outside of a marriage and are by no stretch of the imagination promiscuous. It should be is sex outside of marriage better (still not the right word) than inside of legal/valid marriage?

Also, I didn't read anywhere in her article that she's telling people/girls to behave like her. She's not giving people a free pass to go forth and be great. She's telling HER story. She's opening up a dialogue for girls in situations like her, whether as promiscuous as her or not, to speak about sex without being ashamed - the good, the bad and the ugly. And yeah to Deeba's point sexual relations doesn't necessarily equate to sex.

[Theorist]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

^I do believe in freedom in speech because if there's a good counter-argument that can also be brought forward..

I'm not personally advocating sleeping with one person after another in case anyone is thinking that but in my eyes it's not worse than marrying our kids off to people without asking/consulting them (which was and still is the norm in many families).. It's probably a discussion for another time but I'm mentioning it because a breakdown in societal morals was mentioned and to me the traditional system is not necessarily morally superior because of that..

Btw I meant to reply to the slippery slope comment earlier but lost track.. Most people who are ok with pre-marital relationships would draw the line at not giving consent and/or lying and betrayal (for example being involved with someone married)..

Agreed.

[newbee13]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

I don't understand the point she's trying to communicate by this article but to me it seemed pretty pointless. This is not at all about relationships. Having a dozen partners before 19.. Open discussions over sex.. I mean being modern and open minded is one thing. This is behayaye.. Sex is a personal act, you do not publicize it. It's intimate depending on how you see it..because from the article it just seems like she has lust. Why does she want the society to accept it?
Would she want her daughter to be grown in such an environment?

It is a natural function whose denying it? But do you have to share it with the whole neighborhood?

I've had relationships, a long engagement and a two year nikkah. We never had sex before and I was happy because I believed some things should happen at the right time.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

I don't understand the point she's trying to communicate by this article but to me it seemed pretty pointless. This is not at all about relationships. Having a dozen partners before 19.. Open discussions over sex.. I mean being modern and open minded is one thing. This is behayaye.. Sex is a personal act, you do not publicize it. It's intimate depending on how you see it..because from the article it just seems like she has lust. Why does she want the society to accept it? Would she want her daughter to be grown in such an environment?

It is a natural function whose denying it? But do you have to share it with the whole neighborhood?

I've had relationships, a long engagement and a two year nikkah. We never had sex before and I was happy because I believed some things should happen at the right time.

Those were your beliefs and these are hers. No one stopped you from waiting for two years and no one should stop her from doing it with the whole cricket team. That's her point I guess. Freedom to do things her way.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Zahra Haiders Article about relationships in Pakistan

which cricket team are we talking about?