Re: What is your argument against secularism?
but flogging is. :)
To that, I honestly have no answer. A search on Google revealed that flogging is to be done under very controlled conditions, but nothing more than that.
I will however, stand by it that the state should not interfere in anybody's personal matters (as long as no one else is harmed).
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
The same reason you live in Pakistan despite being so against the entire system. Why are you, soldier of secularism, living in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan? (Taunting doesn't feel nice, does it?)
I live in Pak because
1) I don't have a British Passport (I assume you do have a Pakistani one)
2) In Pak, you can get away with even murder. Small laws mean nothing. Society is divided into different classes,each with their own, totally different lifestyles.
I've read the non-muslims in Muslim countries thread, but my question was different. You said you wouldn't like Pakistan to become like LA. Which obviously means you dislike the things that go on in LA. Now more or less the same things go on in Ireland so why do you live there if you hate these things so much.
However, I see that its a personal matter and I'm sorry that I mentioned it. So just forget about it :)
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
To that, I honestly have no answer. A search on Google revealed that flogging is to be done under very controlled conditions, but nothing more than that.
I will however, stand by it that the state should not interfere in anybody's personal matters (as long as no one else is harmed).
I wasn't talking about how it should or should not be implemented, I was giving an example of social justice in Quran , of course, the punishment will be given only in a scenario where the matter is not personal anymore. But yeah, it's there in Quran for a reason.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Allah knows my Iman is strong and I'm a Muslim from my heart. But you are right in a sense; I dislike religion forming the laws of the land. I believe religion is strictly personal.
Don't you find it rather odd that Islam says we can't
drink alcohol
buy alcohol
sell alcohol
distribute alcohol
make alcohol for it to be drunk
and then say the law of the land should legalise alcohol ... in a country full of Muslims, who implement "Islam - strictly personally" then no alcohol, will be made, distributed, sold, bought or drunk anyway ... therefore the law being there or not will make no material difference to the outlook of the country ... By outlawing it ... the Muslims will be helped in maintaining their Islam ... how can this be a bad thing?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^^ That is what I have problem with. Regulating morality & that is why religion should a personal matter.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^^ That is what I have problem with. Regulating morality & that is why religion should a personal matter.
It doesn't stay personal when a pub or a stripping club is opened in front of your house or in your neighbourhood. Check out the crime rates in areas with these sort of activities.
Secularists have problem with banning alcohol, they don't have problem with banning marijuana, why?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^ You cant open club/bar/pub anywhere you like. There are zoning laws about where and what kind of business you can open. I personally don't drink or smoke, but I have no problem with people who do it. Just like religion, it should a personal matter. That is why secularism is the best system b/c it does not dictate about life style choices of people.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
It doesn't stay personal when a pub or a stripping club is opened in front of your house or in your neighbourhood. Check out the crime rates in areas with these sort of activities.
Secularists have problem with banning alcohol, they don't have problem with banning marijuana, why?
Now this I don't agree with. This is why I don't want religion to have anything to do with the state. Give these mullahs an inch and they take a mile. I don't care if someone opens a pub or a strip club or a casino or whatever in front of my house or anywhere else in the country. I agree with Shamraz that its not the state's job to be the morality police.
Why the hell are other people bothered by a person going to a casino or a pub? He's not dragging you with him...
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Don't you find it rather odd that Islam says we can't
drink alcohol buy alcohol sell alcohol distribute alcohol make alcohol for it to be drunk
and then say the law of the land should legalise alcohol ... in a country full of Muslims, who implement "Islam - strictly personally" then no alcohol, will be made, distributed, sold, bought or drunk anyway ... therefore the law being there or not will make no material difference to the outlook of the country ... By outlawing it ... the Muslims will be helped in maintaining their Islam ... how can this be a bad thing?
You may find it odd, but that's my opinion. And opinions often look odd to others. Yes, I'm a Muslim, I don't drink, I don't promote drinking, but I say LEGALISE ALCOHOL IN PAKISTAN.
Kind of like "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Now this I don't agree with. This is why I don't want religion to have anything to do with the state. Give these mullahs an inch and they take a mile. I don't care if someone opens a pub or a strip club or a casino or whatever in front of my house or anywhere else in the country. I agree with Shamraz that its not the state's job to be the morality police.
Why the hell are other people bothered by a person going to a casino or a pub? He's not dragging you with him...
^simply because all these areas with bars and casinos have really bad reputation. Even those who drink wouldn't want to live in those areas.
You remind me of a woman and a man who were smoking in their car with all the windows shut and kids at the back.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^ You cant open club/bar/pub anywhere you like. There are zoning laws about where and what kind of business you can open. I personally don't drink or smoke, but I have no problem with people who do it. Just like religion, it should a personal matter. That is why secularism is the best system b/c it does not dictate about life style choices of people.
And why don't they allow it everywhere because people living in a society should be tolerant enough to handle the drunk fights and smoke of cigarettes.
In UK, they are going to ban half-naked models on billboards, there must be a reason for that, right? Or could it be that they heard a mullah's khutba?
Point is that Secular societies and states have their own method of regulating morality so it's not like they give you full freedom to do whatever you like, difference is that they'll support capitalism over what is good for humanity in general.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^simply because all these areas with bars and casinos have really bad reputation. Even those who drink wouldn't want to live in those areas.
You are absolutely right! Because Lahore has no casinos (there is major gambling but no casinos per se), we have no crime at all. Thanks to the Mullahs!
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
In UK, they are going to ban half-naked models on billboards, there must be a reason for that, right? Or could it be that they heard a mullah's khutba?
Wasn't public nudity already banned?
[QUOTE]
difference is that they'll support capitalism over what is good for humanity in general.
[/QUOTE]
I'd bet you guys earn money through capitalistic means. But ya, the grass is always greener on the other side.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Lahore kahan se aa gya beech main? 
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
In response to this:
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
BTW, I couldn't find anything on google about the UK banning nude models, so a link to your source would be appreciated.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
No sorry I’m tired. I’ve spent too much time on net today. I’m drained. I’m not posting in PA WA again. 
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
It doesn't stay personal when a pub or a stripping club is opened in front of your house or in your neighbourhood. Check out the crime rates in areas with these sort of activities.
Secularists have problem with banning alcohol, they don't have problem with banning marijuana, why?
Maybe it's a bit off topic, but let me speak on behalf of all secularists that want marijuana to be legalized. marijuana is not nearly as dangerous to health as smoking is yet smoking is legal. Complete Bull no? Marijuana is more than just a narcotic. There are many uses of it and should not be illegal. Just goes to show it doesn't matter what's legal and illegal, people will find means to abuse it. This is why these things should be taught in schools and homes by parents.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^ You cant open club/bar/pub anywhere you like. There are zoning laws about where and what kind of business you can open. I personally don't drink or smoke, but I have no problem with people who do it. Just like religion, it should a personal matter. That is why secularism is the best system b/c it does not dictate about life style choices of people.
Actions are like smoking ... Even though it may be him smoking the people around are doing it passively ... You would be surprised to see when you sit down to analyse "personal actions" how impersonal and society affecting they really are ... Smoking was banned in the UK in public places for a reason ...
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^^ You cant open club/bar/pub anywhere you like. There are zoning laws about where and what kind of business you can open. I personally don't drink or smoke, but I have no problem with people who do it. Just like religion, it should a personal matter. That is why secularism is the best system b/c it does not dictate about life style choices of people.
so you have no problem for strip clubs and alcohol bars in muslim pakistan which is 97% muslim population by the way, why can't they have 97 to 100% islamic laws instead since muslims are the overwhelming majority and the secualrists are a tiny tiny minority?
you welcome the social ills they have in the west where the many non muslims don't even know who there mother and father is, broken society with no morals where many youngsters run riot and steal and live a life of wannabe rappers and have attitude of get rich or die trying?
secualrism is the worst system possible and thank god the muslim world is rejecting it wholsesale, even in the former tyranical secular nations of middle east the new governments have to use the tagline islamic laws just to be accepted by the people!