Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Yeah drinking and driving never killed people. Crack addicts looking for a fix never killed people either.
As I said earlier, you have a thing for describing yourself and I quote you:
"Too hasty or not to bright"
If you would actually read my earlier posts, you would know that I'm in favor of banning alcohol for health reasons. Anyways, legalizing drugs such as heroin will solve many drug related crimes but that's another topic.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
You do realize most Arab countries did not exist in 1948. Also Saudi Arabia did not sign or ratify the Declaration at the UN. It abstained during the vote.
Doesn't matter. My point was change is inevitable and the more you resist it, the faster it will come. The day will come you will see how bizzarre all of this really sounds and you will be telling your grandkids, I have no idea why I was against this to begin with. It works in everyone's favor.
Secularism is fairly new and just within the last century or so, it has proved to be the most successful system for humanity. Religious justice systems haven't served any justice and we have tried it for how long?..
Yeah, it's coming..
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
As I said earlier, you have a thing for describing yourself and I quote you:
"Too hasty or not to bright"
If you would actually read my earlier posts, you would know that I'm in favor of banning alcohol for health reasons. Anyways, legalizing drugs such as heroin will solve many drug related crimes but that's another topic.
And we have already been over this. Your problem with any of this stuff is not based on secularism. It is based on your dislike for religion.
Theorist you can't make up stuff and then say its irrelevant. The UDHR had nothing to do with the Slave trade in Saudi Arabia and it did not affect it in most Arab countries as they did not exist at the time.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
The words of the Quran are final. Any Muslim who does not accept that is not a Muslim.
Guys, when you run out of legitimate points, just copy-paste above statement.
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I gave up in this thread
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Thanks for once again gracing this discussion with your presence.
They might indulge in haram in their own personal space but at least they wouldn't fight for it to be legalised by overthrowing Allah's orders.
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Slavery is allowed, we can choose whether we want to practice it or not.
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Slavery is by no means acceptable and a remotely decent person wouldn't claim it is.
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Jis ko peena hai ghar baith kar piye, like plenty do already.
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As I said earlier, those who drink, drink now and those who don't still won't even if its legal. So just legalize it instead of whining about it.
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Exactly, I gave up too when everybody here said that something being haraam doesn't make it valid to be implemented as Govt law. SIGH
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You gave up too, but have returned with a mind blowing argument.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Ice soul you have yet to make a single legitimate argument. All your points point to your dislike for religion which is a personal issue not a societal one. Your own feelings regarding religion matter little in the affairs of state.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
but I don't want it turning into Los Angeles either where gambling, alcohol, zina is the norm and perfectly acceptable and legal.
But these things are legal where you live too. So why do you live there still? Its clear from previous discussions that you have no answer/ do not want to answer the question, but I think its pretty legitimate.
Its amusing that most of the soldiers of Islamic Nizam in Pakistan are based abroad. The Cyber ones in Europe and US and the real ones in Afghanistan.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Ice soul you have yet to make a single legitimate argument. All your points point to your dislike for religion which is a personal issue not a societal one. Your own feelings regarding religion matter little in the affairs of state.
No argument of mine would look legitimate to a Mullah like yourself sir.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
. All your points point to your dislike for religion which is a personal issue not a societal one.
Allah knows my Iman is strong and I'm a Muslim from my heart. But you are right in a sense; I dislike religion forming the laws of the land. I believe religion is strictly personal.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Ah the Fox news retort. Well done. You moved up in the world.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
And we have already been over this. Your problem with any of this stuff is not based on secularism. It is based on your dislike for religion.
Theorist you can't make up stuff and then say its irrelevant. The UDHR had nothing to do with the Slave trade in Saudi Arabia and it did not affect it in most Arab countries as they did not exist at the time.
It wasn't just Saudi Arab involved in slave trade. it was the ENTIRE WORLD! but yes, the arab world resisted the most. The Arab league was formed in 1945. It's not like the Arab world didn't exist before 1948. I mentioned Saudi Arab for the reason that it was well established by 1948. hmm I wonder why Saudi Arab didn't vote in favor of the UDHR? Well maybe because they didn't want slavery abolished! My point again was they resisted. Pakistan may not vote in favor for another UDHR bill of rights but it will be pressured into it by the rest of the world.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Allah knows my Iman is strong and I'm a Muslim from my heart. But you are right in a sense; I dislike religion forming the laws of the land. I believe religion is strictly personal.
In matter of hearts, yes it is personal but then why did God prescribed punishments for certain crimes if it was meant to be "personal". Your argument is flawed.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Your argument is flawed.
From a religious perspective, yes.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
I wonder why Saudi Arab didn't vote in favor of the UDHR?
The Saudis voting for a Human Rights thingy? There's a **greater **chance of me becoming the US President.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
It wasn't just Saudi Arab involved in slave trade. it was the ENTIRE WORLD! but yes, the arab world resisted the most. The Arab league was formed in 1945. It's not like the Arab world didn't exist before 1948. I mentioned Saudi Arab for the reason that it was well established by 1948. hmm I wonder why Saudi Arab didn't vote in favor of the UDHR? Well maybe because they didn't want slavery abolished! My point again was they resisted. Pakistan may not vote in favor for another UDHR bill of rights but it will be pressured into it by the rest of the world.
Oh yes. That is why Pakistan is listed as one of the countries that voted in favour of the UDHR the first time. CERD. CAT. CEDAW. And even support the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights. And the reason Saudi Arabia resisted originally as the UDHR does not allow cover the sanctity of religion.
Well done on that.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
From a religious perspective, yes.
So you don't believe in the Quranic verses about social justice?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
So you don't believe in the Quranic verses about social justice?
I don't understand the question, TBH. Can you explain it? Because the Quran does not really prescribe punishments (like stoning is not mentioned in the Quran). Correct me if I'm wrong :)
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
I don't understand the question, TBH. Can you explain it? Because the Quran does not really prescribe punishments (like stoning is not mentioned in the Quran). Correct me if I'm wrong :)
but flogging is. :)
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
That is why Pakistan is listed as one of the countries that voted in favour of the UDHR the first time.
Yes, Pakistan hasn't yet fallen to the Mullah Brigade.
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And the reason Saudi Arabia resisted originally as the UDHR does not allow cover the sanctity of religion.
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The UDHR basically asks for equality and liberty. How the hell does that go against Islam?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
The same reason you live in Pakistan despite being so against the entire system. Why are you, soldier of secularism, living in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan? (Taunting doesn’t feel nice, does it?)
The reason why I haven’t answered the question previously is because I didn’t know this thread was about my personal life. I actually typed out the answer but it was 44 lines long, all about why I live where I live, how I’m about to leave where I live (hope that puts you at ease), why I am in favour of Islam regardless of where I live. So I didn’t post it because I didn’t want to derail the thread with stuff that should be common sense to you. You’re not so dumb that I have to explain to you how muslims living in non-muslim countries don’t have to hate Islam and don’t have to be in favour of imposing the unislamic social norms of the countries they live in on muslim societies. You will find others in this thread who are on the same page as me: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/all-views/519386-muslims-living-in-non-muslim-countries.html
Just because someone lives in Los Angeles doesn’t mean he has to say yes to gambling being legalised in the muslim world. He’s a muslim regardless of where he lives, he has the right to voice his opinion on all Islamic issues.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Oh yes. That is why Pakistan is listed as one of the countries that voted in favour of the UDHR the first time. CERD. CAT. CEDAW. And even support the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights. And the reason Saudi Arabia resisted originally as the UDHR does not allow cover the sanctity of religion.
Well done on that.
We will see when UDHR or a similar international act pushes countries to adopt secularism... Only then you will see what I am trying to say. They will resist it to their best ability. Just like republicans resist every effin' thing without even understanding the benefits of it.