What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Society Religion & Philosophy
721

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^ Peace stochastic

Please avoid analysing others beliefs to make conclusions about their beleifs on this thread as it has become too big already. May you edit the post above to demonstrate where you differ you needn't explain why your position is correct or why theirs is wrong.

What I would like to see is a concise list of Ahmadi beliefs and whether we like it or not to say that we agree or differ without having a debate about why we differ. If it is kept civil then open specific threads to this effect. Thanks

Khane peene wale Muhawre
722

AsSalam-o-Alaikom,
I agree with you that a thread titled 'What are the fundamental beliefs...' should only be used for understanding what one beliefs in & not for proving or disproving something , however the onus must also lie on those who share their beliefs.., they must also do so in a neutral manner , without attempting to prove the veracity of their ideas or more importantly without implying that those who believe otherwise are misguided; because in doing so they make it inevitable for people to respond with counter arguments.

The reason for me posting on this thread was someone quoting
'Rationality is what is missing in their beliefs' ... 'You have a contradicting belief'...
Anyhow I am removing my previous post

723

Fail!

Most of your fellow Sandhus are Sikhs and Hindus from India.

So according to you Sandhus were originally Muslims who came from Yemen and then converted to Hinduism and Sikhism? You aren't 100% Arab, but 100% JOKES.

How come trolls aren't banned on this Forum?

724

Bigboi AKA NUMB

As usual, you have hard time explaining what you are really trying to say but I understand you.

Ahmadiyat is not about Allah's prophet HAZRAT ISA (AS), It is about Mirza Ghulam Ahmed saab and his believers. The whole world knows about HAZRAT ISA (AS), you need not discuss him, instead you need to concentrate and defend Mirza saab and his claims.

I am glad, unlike in the past, this time you have done a lil' bit of research and know Mirza saabs habit of frequent 'GALUM GALOCH' and verbal abuse.

Like before, I ask you a simple question.
IS THIS HOW ALLAH's NABI TALKS ? **
**IS THIS THE LANGUAGE OF ALLAH's PAK NABI ?

Again, it is not about ALLAH'S NABI HAZRAT ISA (AS), It's about Mirza saab and his 'dimagi ikhtra' so leave HAZRAT ISA(AS) alone and lets talk about Mirza saab...

RC

~Kya main sab ka hu Jaun~
725

Salam, I have a question to my brothers and sisters on this board. Where do all the allegations that people wrote in this thread come from?

I'm still really new to this, but alhamdulillah, during my leisure time recently I have been able to study some of the Ahmadi teachings ( That is, If you can call researching on the Internet "studying" LOL). So along with reading, I also tried to find some videos on youtube. There was this one Video I watched and it was from a source that doesn't belong to Ahmadis. I think it was from a Pakistani channel called ARY. In that video a scholar called "Dr. Israr Ahmad" was praising Mirza Ghulam Ahmad for defending Islam against Arya Samaj and Christian Missionaries of his time. And that was because he was pretty much the only person around who had not only great knowledge on Islam, but also other religions and it's scriptures. Now what I'd like to know is, how do people come up with allegations such as the British Installing him to confuse Muslims, when It was him who actually defended Islam against Christians who used to call the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) all kind of names? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Edit: Someone else also said that Ahmadis named themselves after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, but doesn't "Ghulam Ahmad" mean Servent of Ahmad? Ahmad being one of the names of our beloved Prophet (PBUH)?

So doesn't Ahmadi actually mean "Follower of Ahmad" i.e. follower of Muhammad (PBUH)?

Subhan Allah people. Wouldn't it be appropriate If we'd actually try to learn about something (even If we don't like it), before we can actually "criticize" it?

When someone is born
726

Detailed response to your post is not worth my time so I am only picking one fundamental point from your post highlighted above in red.

This is how Mirza saab and his followers twist the facts altering AHADEES and QURAN and that is probably the biggest reason Ahmadis were declared Non-Muslim in the world of 1.66 billion Muslim Ummah.

The red highlighted text above is not what Muslims believe, absolutely wrong and knowingly deceiving interpretation of truth.

RC

When someone is born
727

Hi Reality Check, at this very moment, right now, do you believe that Jesus(PBUH) is a prophet? According to you he is alive in the Heavens, right? Now let us just imagine that he'll come back to the Earth as the Messiah tomorrow. Would you stop believing in him as a Prophet from one day to another?

There are ALOT of Muslims who do believe that when Jesus (PBUH) comes back to Earth as the Messiah, he indeed will be a Prophet. But at the same time they also believe that Jesus won't be the last Prophet because Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) already holds that title, and because Jesus never died. No logic and REALITY at all IMO. And why is that? It's because if Jesus comes back to the Earth he'd ofcourse have to die some day, like any other human being. And after he dies, he would be considerd logically what? The LAST Prophet! dun dun dun... :O

Check Check Check Reality Check...

728

Your post says it all that you are new to all this and obviously naive about the issue.

What Dr. Israr said was 100% correct no one can dispute him as he is the biggest scholar of time.

You probably didn't watch the entire program. He was answering the question about why Mirza saab had this influence on people and Dr. Israr was being honest.

However, there are thousand of Islamic scholars before and after Mirza saab and Dr. Israr also beleives the gollowing:

  • none of them claimed to be Allah's prophet,
  • none of them canceled QURANI AHKAAM (ie: canceling JIHAD),
  • none of them called HAZRAT ISA's grand mother 'a prostitute',
  • none of them called a common Muslim's mother 'a b-i-t.ch or kan.jari' because he didn't believe Mirza saab...

I have a lot more but I think you know what I mean and where I am going with this...

As far as where these allegations come from...you have to do some reading on your own on the subject. These are not false ellegations, I can give you specific references if you need.

Muslim Ummah of 1.66 billions worldwide has refused and condemned Mirza saab's 'dimaghi ikhtra', you think it can happen if these were false allegations?

RC

729

That is your belief, not a main stream majority (1.66 BILLION) Muslim's belief.

A true Muslims believe, Hazrat ISA (AS) INSHA-ALLAH will come back to life from heavens, not as a prophet but as an UMMATI of Last and final Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH), the greatest of the greatest human being and the most loved prophet by Allah.

Plus, as I said before, Ahmadiyat is not about HAZRAT ISA (AS), it is about Mirza saab's 'dimaghi ikhtra'. You have a bigger task to defend Mirza saab and his claims, don't strain your brains discussing HAZRAT ISA (AS)

RC

730

Yeah, I exactly know where you are going with this… LOL

Here is another reality check for you (the Irony) , your so called “mainstream Muslims” are contradicting each other. Some are saying that Jesus will return as a Prophet, others are saying that he won’t return as a Prophet.

So can I assume that the ones who believe that Jesus will return as a Prophet are non-muslims according to you?

^watch this clip from 4:15

So Maulana Muhammad Wali Razi isn’t a Muslim according to you? He is one of your so called “mainstream Muslim” scholars BTW. LOL

Here is my question for you AGAIN. At this very moment, right now, do you believe in Jesus (PBUH) as Prophet? If he’d come to the world as the Messiah tomorrow. Would he just stop being Prophet from one day to another? How does that work?

731

I share your belief but also have one suggestion.

In these kind of discussions, making a statement in pure emotions and anger without any references to back your claim up harms more then help.

Please provide reference from QURAN

RC

~*~ Ek Aansoo ~*~
732

Nothing is according to me BTW. I am no one to claim anything. It is according to Ullamas and leaders of Muslim Ummah of 1.66 BILLIONS.

Repeating yourself won't make you an effective communicator. People repeat themselves when they are losing a conversation and have nothing better to say.

Having said that, I can't be a Muslim if I don't believe in HAZRAT ISA (AS) as a Prophet of Allah. I do believe HAZRAT ISA (AS) was Allah's prophet and was raised by Allah to heavens and will INSHA-ALLAH come back to life from heavens as an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (SA,PBUH).

How does that work is probably beyond your comprehension but ask Allah, he will INSHA-ALLAH guide you to right path...

733

OK, your "Ullamas and leaders of Muslims" are contradicting each other, and calling each other non-muslim then. It's a FACT. Just watch the Video I posted.

It's not me repeating my self over and over again, it's you who is repeating the number 1,66 billion and mainstream muslim. Repeating yourself won't make your arguments any stronger.

"Mainstream Muslims" are killing each other. What does that say about them?

I repeated myself because you didn't answer my question.

You believe Jesus (PBUH) WAS a Prophet. I asked you about NOW. Do you believe he IS still a Prophet, since he's not dead, but alive in the Heavens.

Aaj kya pakaaya/khaaya
734

They may contradict or disagree with each other but they all agree on one thing ... and you know what that is.... need I mention that ...lol ?

It is meant to be...been predicted 1400 years ago by TRUE Prophet Mohammad(SA, PBUH). It is all part of the big plan by Allah all mighty....no surprises there...

This is the last I respond about HAZRAT ISA (AS), after that will only respond about Mirza saab because it's about Mirza saab and his 'dimaghi ikhtra'.

Hazrat ISA(AS) was a prophet, he is a prophet just like all other prophets since Hazrat ADAM (AS).

Hazrat ISA(AS) will come back to life from heavens as an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad's (SA, PBUH).

When he comes back, he will not be a Prophet, he will be an UMMATI of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), a very special UMMATI, a savior, a Messiah.

I know you are not capable of understanding all this but Allah is the biggest HAKIM, he just says 'HO JA' and things happen. No reasoning, no justifications, no arguments, just like when you will stand after death on his call...

NO MORE HAZRAT ISA (AS) from me now, if you wanna discuss Mirza saab, I will respond.

RC

735

Could care less since I'm not an Ahmadi.

I could also care less about those Muslims agreeing with each other on this issue though. There used to be a time when all Muslims agreed on the Earth being flat, just because other people including Christians etc. believed so. It didn't make it right though. LOL

The TRUE Prophet Muhammad also said that there will be a time when the Mullahs will be the most cruel creatures on this Earth.

Aren't Mullahs the Ullamas and leaders of the Muslims of today's age? What do you have to say about that?

I just started a new thread mate. I'd like to officially invite you to my thread called "**IS Jesus (PBUH) a Prophet?". **If you refuse to post in my thread and give me a straight forward answer, I'll take it as a "I don't know what to say" on your behalf. :)

736

Heres the question for you to think mr. realitycheck.

Jesus AS according to you will be coming AFTER Hazrat Muhammad PBUH. Will that not contradict the word khatam used for Prophtet Muhammad PBUH? When Jesus AS going to die, will He AS not be the LAST prophet amongst the mankind?

How can you deny Jesus AS's naboowat when on one hand Quran will be referring Jesus AS as nabiAllah and on other hand when he returns He AS will no longer have his naboowat with Him? Is Quran going to be changed (naoozubillah) or will you change your belief?

You claim to be so knowledgable about jamaat e ahmadiyya, yet you know not what the claims of Promised Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS were?

[QUOTE]
Plus, as I said before, Ahmadiyat is not about HAZRAT ISA (AS), it is about Mirza saab's 'dimaghi ikhtra'. You have a bigger task to defend Mirza saab and his claims, don't strain your brains discussing HAZRAT ISA (AS)
[/QUOTE]

We need NOT to defend the claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS. The reason why is that no matter how much we defend it, people who we are going to defend it against have such contradictory beliefs themselves, which first needs to be addressed. The moment they're sorted, we then can move to the claims and His AS truthfullness. How are you ever going to understand His AS teachings when your belief regarding the coming back of Jesus AS is so senseless? The death of Isa AS is where Ahmadiyya movement starts. The moment you prove his AS living up in skies alive bodily with Quran/Hadith and logic.. you prove Ahmadiyyat wrong. You will never be able to do that. We on other hand will continue to prove your beliefs wrong.

[QUOTE]

  • none of them claimed to be Allah's prophet,
  • none of them canceled QURANI AHKAAM (ie: canceling JIHAD),
  • none of them called HAZRAT ISA's grand mother 'a prostitute',
  • none of them called a common Muslim's mother 'a b-i-t.ch or kan.jari' because he didn't believe Mirza saab...

[/QUOTE]
If you understand the philosophy behind the words He AS used for Jesus AS, you will not be able to stop yourself than to say subhanAllah. At the time when christian missionary incharge were constantly attacking our Prophet Muhammad PBUH in India and used such filthy language towards the greatest Prophet of Allah PBUH. None of your so called "islamic scholar" from "1.6billion" people dared giving them reply. How could they? All the would have been doing was to keep on defending it, rather than to shut their mouths with their own beliefs. This my friend, is exactly what Promised Messiah AS did. If you say you have read the books of Promised Messiah, why do you not then admit that Hazrat mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS praised Jesus AS a lot in so many of His books,( fact of the matter is your claim of going through entire Alislam.org website is plain LIE )... and then He also used strong language towards Him. Interesting , isnt it? This language was necessary. On one hand christian missionaries were using filthy language on Prophet Muhammad PBUH and all islamic scholars were quiet. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS, who had so much knowledge about not only Islam but other religion, differentiate Isa AS of Islam from Isa of Christians. Whatever strong language Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS used for Isa AS was due to christian's own beliefs. This had nothing to do with the Islamic concept of Hazrat Isa AS. The only way out to defeat Christians were to actually used their own beliefs regarding Isa AS (son of God , according to christians ).. to shut their mouths. How dare they use filthy language for our prophet Muhammad PBUH and we sit their quietly? On one hand greatest Prophet of ALL time and on the other hand Isa AS, a true messenger of Allah. So, the usage of strong language is infact in response to the Christian's so called "concept of Jesus Christ, son of God )

Calling Jesus's grandmother a prostitute is one of the many beliefs of Christians themselves. Now, theres no room for such disgusting stuff in Islam. Quran refers Jesus AS as the true messenger of Allah and a son of virgin marry. This was the response Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS wrote to Christians to shut their mouth. Has nothing to do with Islamic beliefs of Jesus AS.

[QUOTE]
A true Muslims believe, Hazrat ISA (AS) INSHA-ALLAH will come back to life from heavens
[/QUOTE]
He AS will 'come back to life' from heavens? were you the one who said that "i am here for reasoning and arguments and thats what im expert in " ???? On one hand Majority Muslims believe HE AS IS STILL ALIVE BODILY and you're telling me that He AS will come back to life from heavens? Meaning He AS is dead and therefore will be required to get life again? Get your own beliefs straight and then come back talking about the beliefs of Ahmadiyya jamaat.

This is what Promised Messiah , Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS says and i quote :

[QUOTE]
O mankind! hearken, this is the prophecy of God Who made the Heavens and the Earth. He will spread this Movement in all the countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and arguments. Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who are living at present will die and not one of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of their posterity will also perish and they too will not see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the day of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken another turn but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief and the third century from today will not have completed when all those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and Christians will despair of his coming and entertaining misgivings shall give up their belief and there will be only one Faith in the world and one preceptor. **I came only to sow the seed. That seed has been sown by my hands. It will now grow and blossom forth and none dare retard its growth.

**(The Promised Messiah in Tazkira-tush-Shahadatain)
[/QUOTE]

737

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Mr. Popat

I will respond to your last post tomorrow. I have to go home now, it's almost 5 PM.

RC

Aamnay Samnay: Fariha Ali
738

Just to clear the point of the strong language used by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad , the promised messiah AS against Isa ibn e Mariyam AS. Quoting a few lines from His books. Exactly what I mentioned above.

[QUOTE]
So many books full of vile abuse and defamation of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, have been printed and published the perusal of which makes one's body tremble.** Our heart is so much in tribulation that if these people were to slaughter our children before our eyes and were to cut to pieces our sincere and beloved friends and were to kill us with great humiliation and were to take possession of our belongings, we call God to witness that even in such case we would not suffer so much grief and our heart would not be so severely wounded as we have suffered and endured under this abuse and defamation which has been directed against the Holy Prophet, peace and blessing of Allah be upon him.** (Ayena Kamalat-e-Islam,p. 51)
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
It should be remembered that I hold this view concerning the Jesus who claimed to be God and held previous prophets to be thieves and robbers and has said nothing about the Khatamul Anbya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, except that he, Jesus, would be followed by false prophets. Such a Jesus is nowhere mentioned in the Holy Quran. (*Anjam Aatham, *p.13)
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
I desire to make it clear to the readers that my faith in Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, is a very good faith. I believe sincerely that he was a true prophet of God and was loved by Him and I believe that, as indicated by the Holy Quran, he had, as a means of his salvation, perfect faith in our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. He was one of the sincere servants of the law of Moses. I respect him according to his station. But the Jesus who is presented by the Christians, who claimed to be God and condemned everyone else except himself, both those who had gone before and who were to come after, as accursed, as having been guilty of vices the recompense of which is a curse, is regarded by us as deprived of Divine mercy. The Holy Quran makes no reference to this impertinent and foul-mouthed Jesus. We are surprised at the conduct of one who considered that God was subject to death and himself claimed to be God and who reviled such righteous ones as were thousand times better than him. In our writings we have had this fictitious Jesus of the Christians in mind. The humble servant of God, Isa, son of Mary, who was a Prophet and is mentioned in the Holy Quran, is not the object of our harsh condemnations. We have had to adopt this method after having endured for forty years the abuse of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessing of Allah be upon him, by the Christian missionaries. *(Nurul Quran, *No.2)
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
The Muslims should remember that God Almighty has made no mention of Jesus in the Holy Quran as to who he was, but the Christian missionaries believe that Jesus was a person who claimed to be God and called Moses a thief and a robber and denied the coming of the Holy Prophet and said that he himself would be followed by prophets who will all be false. We cannot accept such a vile thinker and arrogant man and an enemy of the righteous as a good human being let alone that we should accept him as a prophet. These foolish missionaries would be well advised to abandon this method of abuse lest God's jealousy be aroused. (*Zameemah Anjam Aatham, *p. 8)
[/QUOTE]
If we examine his writings for this purpose, we discover that there are three allegations which he made against the Jesus of the Gospels, namely:

  1. He pointed out that the Jesus of the Gospels indulged in liquor;
  2. That some of his grandmothers were guilty of adultery; and
  3. That his mother was charged with adultery by his enemies.

ith regard to the first charge the Promised Messiah states:

[QUOTE]
The damage that liquor has done to the people of the West is due to the fact that Jesus indulged in liquor, possibly on account of some disease or on account of habit. (*Kishti Nuh, *p. 65)
[/QUOTE]
now 2nd point is the one u raised. One should analyze someone critically before coming to a conclusion. Have taqwa in your heart please. This is what chrisitan bible has to say about Jesus AS.

[QUOTE]
a bas-tard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation (*Deut. *23:2)
[/QUOTE]
Can you tolerate that? Do you believe in THAT jesus AS? the one described in the ''chrisitan version of Bible'' so filthily ?

Thus the Promised Messiah refuted from Christian sources the calumny that the ancestors of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, were not sinless people. There is no such allegation concerning him in any standard Islamic book or history, while the Bible contains statements to the effect that we have mentioned which are admitted by Christian scholars. Whatever the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, wrote about the Jesus of the Gospels was not from himself but was drawn from Christian sources which he cited. No objection can, therefore, be taken to whatever he wrote in this context.

PS: this post is specially for someone who claimed to have gone through the entire Ahmadiyya Muslim official site.

739

Peace my jazbati brother

All you should have said here was you believe Isa (AS) is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, I don't.

You needn't have written the phrase 'Galam galoch' you could have simply said that, 'I don't believe a prophet would swear'.

You needn't set up a position which seems as though you are in a court case trying to ascertain the truth, this thread will have too many concurrent topics otherwise. I really want to know a concise set of Ahmadi beliefs but this line of discussion is not bringing us to that.

Why say that some are 'twisting the facts'? This is only going to cause a heated argument. Also what has the declaration of Muslims regarding Ahmadis to do regarding the principles of their belief?

Look likewise I don't want to see them using our references to justify their beliefs either I just want to know their beliefs do you see at all what I ask and why I ask it?

740

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Regarding your this accusation. It’s baseless.

I thought you were very knowledgeable. This proves your knowledge.

I think what you need to do is to read Promised messiah AS’s books with neutral mind and not with the intention of knowing where you could attack us. The official website is Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website Read about jihad and come back apologize for your false allegation. Replying you with answer to this accusation would mean nothing unless you yourself read about Jihad and come back tell me what it means in accordance to the Ahmadiyya jamaat. Let me know if reading doesnt help. Unfortunately then, you’re going to have hard time giving fatwas against your so called scholars.

When someone is born