What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Society Religion & Philosophy
741

^ANd that RealityCheck guy is telling me to read more Ahmadis, since i'm a n00b at this. LOL

All I did was to type "Jihad" on that AHmadi site and this showed up.

[QUOTE]
**JIHAD - THE HOLY WAR

**
A very important question which relates to the propagation of all divine messages. It relates to the instrument of propagation Adherents of almost all religions, as they move away in time from the source, are invariably known to have employed coercion either to keep people within the fold of their religion, or to convert others into their faith. But according to the Holy Quran, this in no way reflects upon their religion's attitude to coercion. No religion at its source has ever permitted the use of force in any form whatsoever. In fact all religions have been made targets of coercion, and no efforts were spared by their opponents to arrest the growth of religions at their source and to annihilate them completely. Every time a new prophet came, attempts were invariably made by the enemies to suppress his message through the use of force and merciless persecution. It is the most tragic irony therefore that of all the books, the Holy Quran is singled out today as proponent of the employment of coercion for the sake of the spread of its message. Even greater tragedy lies in the fact that it is the Muslim clergy itself which loudly propounds this view, blatantly attributing it to the Holy Quran.
The Holy Quran, it should be remembered, is the only Divine book which absolves all the prophets of the world, wherever and in whichever age they were born, of the crime of coercion in relation to the spread of their message. Hence it is inconceivable that the Quran should present its Holy Prophet (sa) as the harbinger of an era of bloodshed in the name of peace, and hatred in the name of love of God. This is no place to engage in intricate polemical discussions, so this brief introduction should suffice here. According to the Quran, the Holy War, called Jihad, is in reality a holy campaign which uses the help of the Quran to bring about a spiritual revolution in the world.

Fight against them by means Of it (the Quran) a great fight *Surah Al-Furqan (Ch. 25, V,53)*

These are the very words of the Quran which throw light on the nature of Jihad. It must be fought by means of the Quran and the Quranic message alone. Again, to tame one's rebellious nature into complete submission to God is another form of Jihad which is in fact the greater Jihad, according to the Holy Prophet of Islam. On returning from a battle, he is reported to have said:

We are returning from the lesser Jihad to the greater Jihad

Of course, defensive war is permitted only on the condition that the enemies initiate hostilities and raise sword against a weak, defenceless people for having committed the only crime of declaring that God is their Lord. All offensive wars according to Islam are unholy.

[/QUOTE]

Seriously, where do these allegations come from? Why are some people afraid of Ahmadis that they have to make up lies?

742

[quote=““라시드””]

Mr.Popat and rest of the Ahmadis:

OK, now that I drove the conversation where I wnated, here is what Mirza saab professed with references.

Now is the time to get some MURRABI that your Jamaat invested money on for seven years for your rescue/help…

To understand exactly what the problem is, you need to go to the source so I went to the source, Mirza saab’s and his son’s own writings throughout his life and after

Please explain the following in light of Islamic teachings:

Mirza saab as The Son of God himself (Astaghfirullah)
[ul]
[li]“You are unto me as my son.”[/li][LIST]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 86; Tadhkira, Page 526, 642)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Listen to Me, My Son”[/li][ul]
[li](Al-Bushra, Vol 1, Page 49)[/li][/ul]
[li]“God has preferred you above everything else.”[/li][ul]
[li](Tadhkira, Page 469, 579, 638)[/li][/ul]
[li]“You are from me and I am from you: your appearance is my appearance.”[/li][ul]
[li](Tadhkira, Page 650, 700)[/li][/ul]
[li]“If thou hadst not been, I (God) would not have created the heavens.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 85; Istifta, Page 604, 649)[/li][/ul]
[li]“You are from our water and they are from dust.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-e-Atham, Page 55; Tadhkira, Page 204)[/li][/ul]
[li]“The Heavens and the earth are with you as they are with Me.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-e-Atham, Page 52; Tadhkira, Page 65 (2nd Edition))[/li][/ul]
“Listen to Me, My son; Thou art from My water and they (other people) from dust…”

“Christ and I (Mirza Ghulam) are in a position wherein we can be metaphorically termed as sons of God.”
[ul]
[li](Dafi-ul-Bala, Page 6; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 86; Arbain, Page 34, by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Thou art as a son to Me; Thou art like My children; Thou art as dear to Me as My Unity.”[/li][ul]
[li](Tauhid and Tafrid, by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I have dismounted the heavens for thee and for thy sake I shall manifest My signs.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 94)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Mirza saab as Allah himself (Astaghfirullah)

May Allah(SWT) have mercy on me for reproducing these authentic writings of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. I allow his own writings, alleged to be divine revelation, speak for itself:
[ul]
[li]“I am given the power to cause death and to give life from the Lord, the all-Powerful.”[/li][LIST]
[li](Khutba Ilhamia, Page 55-56)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Such is your command: that when you intend a things, you say ‘Be’ and it exists.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqatul Wahi, Page 105; Tadhkira, Page 525, 656, 826)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Oh Ahmad, your name will be completed but My name will not be completed.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-e-Atham, Page 52; Tadhkira, Page 51)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Allah praises you in the heavens. He praises you and comes unto you.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-e-Atham, Page 55-56; Tadhkira, Page 276 (2nd Edition))[/li][/ul]
[li]“The God of Muhammad manifested Himself to Ahmad of Qadian, and He in the form of Ghulam Ahmad radiated His light.”[/li][ul]
[li](Al-Hakam, No. 5)[/li][/ul]
[li]“You are unto me as my Oneness and my Soleness.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-e-Atham, Page 51; Tadhkira, Page 66, 304)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I dreamt that I was Allah and I believed that I was really he.”[/li][ul]
[li](Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)[/li][/ul]
[li]“God stands where you (Mirza Ghulam) stand.”[/li][ul]
[li](Al-Bushra, Vol 2, Page 24)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I saw that I was God, and believed that I was He, and in that condition I was saying, ‘We intend to create a new system and a new heaven and earth.’ Then, I said ‘We decorated the Lower heaven with Lights; and added, We shall create men out of the extract of earth’.”[/li][ul]
[li](Kitab-ul-Bariya, Page 78; Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Reincarnation of Muhammad(SAW) according to Mirza saab
[ul]
[li]“I am that same prophet , the very Incarnation of the “Seal of Prophets” and twenty years back in the Book Baraheen-i-Ahmadiah, I was called by God by the names of Muhammad and Ahmad and was declared by God Himself to be the very prophet in fresh and blood.”[/li][LIST]
[li](Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Muhammad has again come among us. His new position is an improvement on his earlier visitation. If any man wishes to see Muhammad, akmal (more competent), then he should see Ghulam Ahmad, in Qadian.”[/li][ul]
[li](Al-Badr, Oct 5, 1906; Written by a poet and published by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles… My Miracles exceed one million in numbers.”[/li][ul]
[li](Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79; Tadhkira tul Shahadatain, Page 41)[/li][/ul]
[li]“It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(pbuh).”[/li][ul]
[li](Daily Al-Fadl, Jul 17. 1992, Mirza Basheer al-Din Mahmud Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“As for him (Muhammad), the moon was eclipsed but for me, two bright moons have eclipsed (solar eclipse). How dare you deny it? If his Kalam (words) were a miracle, a sign, my Kalam is also a miracle.”[/li][ul]
[li](Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79)[/li][/ul]
[li]“This verse, ‘He is the Messenger of God and the seal of Prophets’ contains a secret allusion to prophecy and that is that the coming of prophets is sealed for ever, and except for the prophet incarnate who is no other than the prophet himself, will have the faculty of receiving revelations from God openly like the prophets of old. Since I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was destined to be the Prophet that was to come, I was made the prophet Incarnate.”[/li][ul]
[li](Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Mirza saab as An Apostate and New Prophet
[ul]
[li]“The true God is He who sent His messenger to Qadiani.”[/li][LIST]
[li](Dafi-ul-Bala, Page 11)[/li][/ul]
“How can I discard God’s revelations which has been coming to me for the last twenty-three years. I believe in this sacred revelation as I believe in the revelations before me.”
[ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 15)[/li][/ul]
[li]“We claim to be Rasul (Messenger) and Nabi (Prophet).”[/li][ul]
[li](Al-Badr, March 5, 1908, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I have been given what no other man in the universe has been given.”[/li][ul]
[li](Tadhkira, Page 658)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I swear by God in whose hand lies my existence and say that it is He who has reputed me and called me a prophet and the Messiah.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Appendix, Page 68, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“He (Mirza Ghulam) is a prophet of God and the like of every prophet.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 79, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“We sent you (Mirza Ghulam) indeed as our mercy to the worlds.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 82, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I (God) shall stand by this (Mirza Ghulam) prophet.”[/li][ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 87, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Mirza saabas The Lord of Hindus
[ul]
[li]“Just as the Aryan people are awaiting the coming of Shri Krishna. I am the same Krishna, and this claim is not only mine but God repeatedly revealed to me that I am the same Krishna, the King of the Aryans to come in the last days of the World.”[/li][LIST]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 45, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Mirza saab as The Christian God
[ul]
[li]“Prophet Daniel has termed me as Michael, in his book; and in Hebrew, Michael literally means, ‘one like God’”.[/li][LIST]
[li](Arbain, No. 3, Page 25, By Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)[/li][li](Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 17, Page 413)[/li][/ul]
“God, Holy ghost, and son, when combined, constitute the Holy Trinity,”. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad represents God as riding a dromedary likens Him to a Tendwa (octopus) and call Holy Ghost as female and God as male. He talks of God as descending the heavens, praising Mirza Ghulam Ahmad from His Throne, sending peace on, and praying for him. He describes Him as sleeping, walking, and performing good and bad actions and glorifying the name of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad."
[ul]
[li](Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 78 and 103; Izala-i-Auham, Page 67; Tauzih-ul-Maraam, page 21)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Mannerism of Mirza saab
[ul]
[li]“My enemies are dirty swine and their women are more wretched than b.itche.s”[/li][LIST]
[li](Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 14, P. 53; Najmul Huda, P. 10, 53)[/li][/ul]
[li]“All Muslims regard my books with reverence and care and benefit from their sublime thoughts except those who are the offspring of prostitutes (b.astard.s); God has put a seal upon their hearts and they do not accept me.”[/li][ul]
[li](Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 5, Page 547-548; Mirat-o-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 547[/li][li]Aeena-e-Kamalat Islam, P.547-548)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Are they prepared to swear? No, they’ll never do so because they are liars and are derooting the corpse of falsehood like dogs.”[/li][ul]
[li](Supplement to Anjam-e-Atham, P. 25; Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 11, P. 309)[/li][/ul]
[li]“I look a sinful man among debauched who is more scoundrel and an execrated being like Satan… He who is called Saadullah by the ignorant is slanderer, wicked and a falsifier… You injured me, b.astar.d. I won’t be truthful if you won’t have a disgraceful death.” [/li][ul]
[li][COLOR=black](Haqiqat-ul Wahi, P. 14-15; Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 734-735) [/COLOR][/li][/ul]
[li]“If Abdullah Athum is saved from death (as per Mirza’s prophecy) and if all the world say the Christian was correct, then the ******* will not follow the right path.”[/li][ul]
[li](Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 32)[/li][/ul]
[li]“Abdul Haq is not content with our victories. He is itching to become a b.astar.d.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anwar-ul-Islam, P. 30)[/li][/ul]
[li]“There is nothing more foul than a pig in the world. But the ulema who oppose me are more foul than pigs.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-i-Atham, P. 21)[/li][/ul]
[li]“You have inflicted pain on me with your foulness. You are not truthful. I pray that you die in shame, you son of a harlot.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anjam-i-Atham, P. 288)[/li][/ul]
[li]“This b.astar.d of a doctor does not thread the straight path.”[/li][ul]
[li](Anwar-ul-Islam, P. 30)[/li][/ul]
[li]He called Shaikhul Islam Saanaullah of Amristar:[/li]“O, the son of wind, o traitor…”
[ul]
[li](Ijaz-i-Ahmadi, P. 43/77)[/li][/ul]
[/LIST]Is this how a Prophet or even a rightly guided individual would speak?

This is just a tip of the iceberg. Now you can just ignore all this and call this a propaganda against Mirza saab but if you are really after truth, I urge you to check my references, read those books and then think about all this. If you are a reasonable logical person, I guarantee you will become Muslim.

I have ton of this kind of material with references if you are interested but I know this post is already gone too lengthy so may be next time.

743

:salam: RealityCheck

No one can guarantee the turning of hearts because none can guide nor misguide except that Allah (SWT) Wishes it. In the process of bashing another religion/understanding do you think people will automatically accept yours?
Especially after you have been so unforgivingly rude?

It is far better to give dawah by showing how good it has made you in conduct and treatment of others. People will not accept your way if you bash their religion, the more likely thing is that they will become atheists.

A religion is like a house … one should not break the houses of others so they become homeless rather one should invite to their own houses. The way this is done is by showing the truth of your own religion not claim falsehood in others and press them with psychological force. You have written nothing that will attract the Ahmadi to mainstream Islam so by reading all those references how is it that a reasonable person will accept your version of it? Dawah must be done with wisdom and love for others, not contempt.

If someone invited you with harshness for a meal to their house would you go? I would think that they are going to poison me.

744

Aapki ye choti moti allegations ka jawaab dene ke lyye mujhe apne 8 mah ke bache ko PC pe bithaana chahyye…I mean seriously do you think Ahmadies lack in knowledge of their own faith?..these allegations have been presented many many times and then answered.

I know Psyah wont be happy me replying to these allegations but things have to be done.

Lets take this one first:

Mirza saab as The Son of God himself (Astaghfirullah)
“You are unto me as my son.”
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 86; Tadhkira, Page 526, 642)

Please find attached Haqiqat-ul-Wahi Page 86 below.

No where on page from top to bottom I found something like “You are unto me as my son”. I am not denying it may not have been written in any book but it appears you have references mixed up. The writing may be in different context hence please provide perhaps the image of the writing.

For the same allegation your provided another reference from Book Tadhkira page 526. I read the whole page and could not find anything like "You are unto me as my son.

Please view this link and read the source yourself Tadhkira Page 526.

You also refered to Tadhkira Page 642 as well. I went to that page as well you to see if its written there…and guess what…the page is empty!

Please view this link and read the source yourself if you can! Tadhkira Page 642.

Your very first allegation has incorrect references and I dont want to waste time on rest as not sure whether they are correct or not. I would suggest that for clarity for others who come and see your post that you look at your post again and cross reference the allegations with the books and rather then writing few lines and post the correct pages perhaps with the links or actual images of the writings.

Neem hakeem :D
745

@RealityCheck

I asked where do allegations like MGA being Installed by the british come from, when clearly even people who are against his teachings at least praise him from defending Islam against aggressors such as Christian missionaries and Arya Samaj. You didn’t answer my question.

I asked where do allegations such as MGA canceled the Jihad come from, and you come up with this one liner copy and paste Job? Is this how you debate? When you copy and paste something, you at least give us a source. From which site do you have it from, so that we know where your “knowledge” comes from.

In that other thread you said I’m not acting like a Muslim, but now look at you. Running around calling people Kafir. I might not have a “mainstream” POV, but hey, at least I don’t call my fellow Muslims Kafir. I don’t call Ahmadis Kafir. Look at what the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had to say…

746

I know you desperately need my attention but sorry, you are not getting any…

so why don’t you do what you do best…just delete my post and feel you accomplished something, so what if it is not in real life…LOL

RC

747

No I think you got it wrong, psyah is not into guys.

748

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^^Hareem jee I wasnt expecting that from you...I mean its a serious thing....we are not in a humour thread.

749

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

I'm just trying to lessen the seriousness and tension and jazbatiness.

750

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

ohh phir theek hai....saath likh dena tha na...abb Psyah jee ghussa khaa ke thread band kar deti to mien kia karta...aap to all rounder hian par mera to guzara hi religious thread pe hai...

751

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Okay a serious question to all in this serious thread. Do you want this thread to be locked? I do, seriously.

Timepass - June 2013
752

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^NOP

I still have to say soooo much. I am just waiting to hear a reply from RealityCheck.....And I have to reply to your post as well...I know you dont want it but I really do.

Timepass - June 2013
753

This is a typical response from an Ahmadi. Denying the fact. That’s why I say 95% of Ahmadis are innocent victims, they are totally oblivious about true beliefs of Mirza saab.

They assume we do have few educated people in our Jamaat, they must have answered this so called ‘Allegation’… but trust me if that was the case, Ahmadiya jamaat would still be considered a Muslim jamaat.

Anyways, here is the real page 86, see for yourself. I have circled the text and the page number in red for your innocent, naive eyes.

Now what ? you have the evidence… you ready to say SHAHADA ?

RC

754

Hareem Ji, That usually is the norm on this forum.

I never provoke anyone with different belief but can't sit like an impotent man when my beliefs are attacked.

I am just getting warmed up and you are talking about locking this thread ...LOL

RC

755

This is good now we are talking…thank you for the page…

Please view the Official Reply of Jamaat Ahmadiyya on this Allegation taken from book Pocket Book.

Let me know if you are happy with this reply if not then state the reasons.

First world problems
First world problems
756

First off, I take this post of yours as an apology from you for accusing me of providing false references.

Secondly, It’s not about my happiness, it’s about the TRUTH that the true Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH) brought 1400 years ago.

Now your Jammat’s respons about the allegations.

To be honest with you, I knew the response in advance and I reject it for the reason that Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH) never presented himself as son of Allah, not even for the reasons, coverup, damage control, your Jamaat provided (used as ISTIARA or example etc.)…no matter in what context it is used, it is KUFR.

RC

757

I read a few posts by ahmadi posters in feedback and they wanted this thread to be closed so that's why I said that. I didn't know that any ahmadi wants this thread to stay open until I read d-tox...ed's post.

Okay if you wish to reply then do so but it'd be useless.

758

Sister

This is a typical Ahmadi game plan, they run as soon as they sense defeat.

Why do you think they ran from Islam Poor Qazi (now known as Qadyan) and Pakistan and now are mainly based in the country of their masters, UK ?

RC

759

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^

why are the other muslimi jihaadis also based in England? why are the TRUE muslims licking the feet of the Queen? why did they run away from Pakistan?

shall I tell you your game plan? your game plan goes like that:

posting crap
posting crap
posting crap

like in the previous threads about Ahmadiyyat. No one sees you, you are invisible, out of nothing you come down, post your biased opinion, read that Ahmadies requested to close threads because of your fellows who LIKE YOU post crap and then say the Ahmadies run away. I SPIT on this statement of yours.

if you think that you really have beaten NUMB and the other Ahmadies, then you must be a dreamer...keep on dreaming...

760

Yes take my post as apology as I perhaps wasnt aware of double numbering system. I will be more careful next time and I hope you havent mind this.

Original Ilhaam Reads as:

Anta Minni Bimanzalati waladi
Tu Mujhse bamanzala mere farzand ke hai.

You said *"I reject it for the reason that Prophet Mohammad (SA, PBUH) never presented himself as son of Allah" *Esa (A.S) as everyone agrees used to call him self Son of God (and Christians took it seriously later on). Basically your statement doesnt make much sence to me as if you are saying that If Holy Prophet SAW wasnt called son of Allah so no one can call himself son of Allah. (Ista'aara ke maanaon mien offcourse). It also like if Holy Prophet SAW didnt travel on plane then I wont. Please clarify your point as I may have misunderstood.

Hadhrat Masih Maood explains the Ilahaam as follows:

"Yaad rahe ke Khuda Taala beton se pak hai, na uska koi shareek hai or na beta hai or na kisi ko haq pohanchta hai ke wo ye kahe ke mien Khuda hoon, ya khuda ka beta hoon. Magar ye fiqra iss jaga QABEEL E MAJAAZ or ISTA'AARA mien se hai."

I am not sure how good your URDU is but I will try to explain the words.

Majaaz ka matlab hai: uss jesa ya uss tarah ka.
Qabeel qabeele se nikla hai or iska matlab ye hai ke "qabeel se taluqq rakhta ho.
Ista'aara ka matlab hai misaal ke toor par

abb jab matlab saaamne hai or issi statement ko dubaara parhien to pata chalta hai ke Hadhrat Masih e Maood (A.S) farmaa rahe hian ke aulaad se muraad asal aulaad nahin balke unn logon ki tarah jo khuda ke bete ki tarah hon...ya jo khudaa ko aziz hon. (BTW its my personal interpretation if you disagree then do let me know the reasons).

Abb issi tarah ki aap agar kuch misaalien dekhien:

jese Khaawand majaazi khuda hota hai...ke uski sifaat khuda ki tarah hian.
Sheesha jab dekhte hian to uska aks nazar aata hai haqeeqat nahin.

jabb aik shaks khudd keh raha hai ke Khuda ka koi beta nahin orr apne ilhaam ki tashreeh karte hue kehta hai ke Qabeel e Majaaz or Isa'aara ke maanon mien beta kaha hai to aap kyoon ba'zid hian usse Khuda ka beta banaane mien.

phir Quran Majeed khud kehta hai ke:

"Fazkurullaha kazikrikum abaaokum" ke Khuda ko isstarah yaad karo jese tum apne baapon ko yaad karte ho

Orr phir ilhaam mien anta waladi nahin Bimanzilati waladi hai ye sarih torr pe khuda ke bete ki nafi karta hai.

I guess this should be more then enough to clear this allegation. However if you are still not convicne then put down your reasons and I will answer. May Allah guide us both on saraat e mustaqeem ameen.