The hypocrisy of liberals

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

Meaning its blasphemous to be honest. Careful now…you know what they do to blasphemers in Pakistan.

Well US citizens are not saints either… They killed millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@ajazali

Another hypocrisy…
Even though its sheer ignorance to say that if husband allows, wife can do any job but what about a husband does not want her wife do a job?
for a femimist and wanabe liberal, he is pure evil
So what is the use of islamic reference? This is the hypocrisy I already knew comming from these wananbe liberals.

When it comes to women’s rights ajazali, there is no hope left in Pakistan. Despite not allowing a woman to work, men have NO issues living off of their wives’ father’s money or furnishing their homes maang maang ke. Literally I’ve seen women show their sons like a car in a showroom to get the best deal there is. Men not allowing women to work has less to do with Islam. Its a personal ego thing and lack of tarbiyat in Pakistani men.

Whether a man allows his wife to work or not is entirely between them. If he does not want her to, he is still responsible for all her needs and anything else she may desire. Indisputable. Even if she is working, he is still responsible for all of her material needs…he has no right to ask her for a penny.

[m7md]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

Controlling a woman does not make a man a man. It makes him a non-man to feel empowered by oppressing others. Men who generally lack in many areas of life always try to oppress women. Oppression is the only tool they have. They don’t possess much else of worth and are afraid someone else will figure it out too.

Now if they could control other MEN, that would make them a real man. But I doubt they have it in them.

And again, those conditions are NOT prohibitions. They are simply guidelines to follow so as not to disrupt harmony for both people.

Let’s say she chooses not to work…she still has the right to a cook, maid, nanny and pretty much anything financially she chooses. She can twiddle her thumbs all day or watch soap operas and he would have no right to question because she is not obligated to take care of his children. She has the right to demand and he is obligated to fulfill.

So instead of going through all that, most women end up being reasonable and only ask for what their husbands can afford. And this attitude is what kills them.

I have no idea why Pakistani women are happy on the day of their wedding…a guy gives you a nice outfit and some jewelry so you can bring a boatload of Jahaiz with you, then come and take care of his brother, his sister, cook, clean, raise his kids, wash his clothes and take care of his parents that even he cannot stand.

So the females in Pakistan BUY (jahaiz) their husbands and their responsibilities.

From a purely financial standpoint, marriage in Pakistan is a terrible deal for women but a very lucrative one for men.

In a good and harmonious society its never men vs women, but the good people against the bad.

Sure controlling a woman doenst make a man more of a man coz in the things allowed its his right, and for him to prove superiority in society he should influence other men towards the good. But again speaking of the word control doesnt ever mean robotic control, its more like a leadership role.
Oppression is completely different then control, similar to how a government controls a state vs a gov oppressing its ppl, dont look at both of them in the same light. There is significant different. A gov control of its people is for the wellbeing of its ppl taking their interests in account.

From the aggressive point you are mentioning that she has no right to care for his kids, well in such guidelines then if the future women has no right to talk in the marriage prospects of their children as well, will that also be accepted? See again its not a fight
And further more a woman does not have a right to demand medical care from her husband as well under sharia law, is always remember challenging authority of a superior will always leave one in a greater loss, compromise and negotiations, more over mutual understanding is always the best policy.

And similarly men should also be reasonable men enough and work dedicatedly in their role as men to provide best for their families.

In my family atleast we dont take jezhez (which we call baghairti) nor do barat so im out of this, such is honestly a disgrace for a man.
And taking care of his brothers is sick and should be stopped. Sufficient care of his parents is fine if its not oppressive.

As you mentioned it is, but u will be surprised even when we tell the girls family we dont want anything how reluctant they are to give, as first they think we are just saying for image lol then they want to give so their other family members e.g. other women’s husband dont feel bad haha, as if they were so conscious of it in the first place, they y take it… anyhow this is personal stuff. But we still dont take anything.

[m7md]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

In an uncivilized society, harsh and swift punishment is best.

I believe ppl need to be given more respect from young age, and thought that there is something called self respect. If ppl have believed themselves to be the ppl of shanty town they will act this way.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

Pakistan is the country that opposes domestic violence laws because they protect women and protecting women from violence is un-Islamic.

Disgusting.

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

Pakistan is the country that opposes domestic violence laws because they protect women and protecting women from violence is un-Islamic.

Disgusting.

Wearing revealing cloths or defending those who wear revealing cloths is unislamic… Supporting LGBT rights is also unislamic.
Disgusting.

[m7md]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

Again, they are NOT prohibitions as you are trying to turn them into. This is not a mandate that a woman cannot work. She CAN. And she can also create an environment that allows her to work.

Plus in today’s society, most men are not able to provide women with all the material comforts women are entitled to which makes it okay for her to work as well. If she demands and he cannot fulfill per HIS Islamic mandate, he is in no position to forbid anyone.

This is somewhat a more complex issue, if the woman knew they financial status of the man and the man didnt lie about it, then she cannot demand more then what he can offer. At the same time men should not look for women in higher financial status if he cannot meet her financial needs.

Islamicially the financial rights of a woman as wife are clearly defined. and does not include the luxury.

This is a issue that is more to be looked upon at a time of marriage, and if the man goes poor then it still doesnt justify him not able to forbid anymore, this would need a clear ruling in this regard.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@m7md

This is somewhat a more complex issue, if the woman knew they financial status of the man and the man didnt lie about it, then she cannot demand more then what he can offer. At the same time men should not look for women in higher financial status if he cannot meet her financial needs.

Islamicially the financial rights of a woman as wife are clearly defined. and does not include the luxury.

This is a issue that is more to be looked upon at a time of marriage, and if the man goes poor then it still doesnt justify him not able to forbid anymore, this would need a clear ruling in this regard.

It actually does include luxury and any sort of house help she needs to feel free to do whatever she wishes. If a man can put restrictions on her, she can also put demands on him and they would be justified. Islam is more of a feminist religion than you want it to be, I realize that. But it is what it is. If you don’t like the rules, you don’t have to be Muslim but you can’t change or bend them because you’re a man and you don’t like hearing about women’s rights. Remember that.

Despite all of men’s best efforts, there IS a feminist movement. Women are more educated than they used to be. They ARE working professional jobs. The rate of divorce is rising because they’ve realized they don’t need to be pushed around anymore. The effects of the mullah brainwashing that tells you women are beneath you, are fading.

Its best men change with the times. As you said…men will act like women and women will act like men. We have no choice left when men are being paraded around to the highest bidding women and even after marriage cannot fulfill basic rights of a woman.

[Dubaiwali]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

This is the most pathetic comment I have ever read in my life. You are such a bigot. Full of arrogance and ignorance. How can you stereotype & generalise like this? How can you bash her like this and character assassinate her like this, by calling her material hungry? Which btw is no such thing, it is called being materialistic!

@ajazali

I wonder how someone so material hungry can give bashin on Islam.

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Dubaiwali

This is the most pathetic comment I have ever read in my life. You are such a bigot. Full of arrogance and ignorance. How can you stereotype & generalise like this? How can you bash her like this and character assassinate her like this, by calling her material hungry? Which btw is no such thing, it is called being materialistic!

Truth hurts.

[redvelvet]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

It actually does include luxury and any sort of house help she needs to feel free to do whatever she wishes. If a man can put restrictions on her, she can also put demands on him and they would be justified. Islam is more of a feminist religion than you want it to be, I realize that. But it is what it is. If you don’t like the rules, you don’t have to be Muslim but you can’t change or bend them because you’re a man and you don’t like hearing about women’s rights. Remember that.

Despite all of men’s best efforts, there IS a feminist movement. Women are more educated than they used to be. They ARE working professional jobs. The rate of divorce is rising because they’ve realized they don’t need to be pushed around anymore. The effects of the mullah brainwashing that tells you women are beneath you, are fading.
Its best men change with the times. As you said…men will act like women and women will act like men. We have no choice left when men are being paraded around to the highest bidding women and even after marriage cannot fulfill basic rights of a woman.

The divorce rate is rising and that is something to be proud of? Lol. I’ve taught almost every grade level. I’ve worked with preschoolers and adolescents and kids in between. Ask me how a divorce affects the psyche of children, the challenges they face as they shuffle their time between mom and dad, of being raised by a single parent. Last year I taught almost 50 students split into two groups; one was academically higher than the other. The students in the significantly higher group had something in common; their parents were married and many of the moms were housewives…but let’s put this latter point to the side. The weaker group of students also had something in common; they were being raised by a single parent, their home lives were fractured. I’m not interested in hearing about “exceptions” to the general observations I’ve just shared. Exceptions will always be there. This fired-up, “gung-ho” zeal about the climbing divorce rate is disturbing. It’s sad that both men and women struggle with compromise and patience and believe that every thing under the sun has to be asserted.

Yes, I’ve heard/read that a Muslim woman is not obligated to clean the house, or even nurse her child. She has the right to never lift a finger. But even when one has more than one right/option, there is one that is more “afzal.” For instance, Islam gives you the right to exact revenge that is equivalent to the harm done to you…however…to forgive is more afzal/superipor. The same religion which grants a wife the right to not lift a finger…also places great emphasis on the maintaining of rishtay. And rishtay are maintained through a mutual give and take, through mutual compromise, and picking and choosing battles…not through arrogance and asserting rights blindly. The Prophet SAWS was not one to demand anything of his wives; he even helped out with the domestic responsibilities. But if he SAWS did make a domestic request of one of his wives, I suspect that they wouldn’t fire back with..“Oh-yeah! I don’t have to do this and it’s my right.” The women of today are much “lesser” in status and character and iman and ibadat than Hazrat Khadija/Fatima/Aisha (RA)…but they’re gonna crow about all their “to-do” and “don’t have to” rights. And the men are no better.

A man does not have the “right” to rape/assault a women based on the way she is dressed. But WHY OH WHY did Allah THEN order women to dress modestly? Was it just for the heck of it? It’s because our Creator knows fully well that some men will use the aqal He has gifted them and exercise self-control…whereas others won’t. Allah knew that. Despite endowing us with intellect and a zameer, He knew that some men wouldn’t use them and will stoop to lower than animals. And so, He ordered women to take precautions as well. In another thread it was said that Islam has set a punishment only for the rapist and not the woman for the way she’s dressed. Ummm…just because there’s no specified “hadd” punishment designated for a scantily dressed woman…doesn’t mean that there is also no gunnah on her either for not following an order. Doesn’t mean it’s all shabaashi for her. That’s something to think about. Just because one person committed made a bigger transgression doesn’t necessarily mean that the other person is completely faultless. If you taunt someone and the other person punches you in the face, the latter is MORE wrong…but that doesn’t that the former’s actions or choices were 100% A-okay! “Feminism” might be all about men being the ones to exercise self-control whilst women get to do whatever…but Islam is about balance and BOTH genders being accountable and responsible. There is something wrong with us if we choose to accept only one ruling of Islam while we remain deliberately mum about the other. For instance, we want to scream it from the roof-tops that a rapist is more wrong, deserves the death penalty as per Islam. But then we want to stay mute when it comes to Allah’s orders on how a woman should dress and we want to downplay this…and we want to conveniently forget or cover up Allah’s rulings in this matter…because somehow some of us erroneously believe that doing otherwise is equivalent to defending the criminal and showing sympathy.

Making blanket statements about Pakistani men …and women living in Pakistan…and Muslim women in Anreeka is not going to resolve anything; it will only fuel and inflame.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@redvelvet

The divorce rate is rising and that is something to be proud of? Lol. I’ve taught almost every grade level. I’ve worked with preschoolers and adolescents and kids in between. Ask me how a divorce affects the psyche of children, the challenges they face as they shuffle their time between mom and dad, of being raised by a single parent. Last year I taught almost 50 students split into two groups; one was academically higher than the other. The students in the significantly higher group had something in common; their parents were married and many of the moms were housewives…but let’s put this latter point to the side. The weaker group of students also had something in common; they were being raised by a single parent, their home lives were fractured. I’m not interested in hearing about “exceptions” to the general observations I’ve just shared. Exceptions will always be there. This fired-up, “gung-ho” zeal about the climbing divorce rate is disturbing. It’s sad that both men and women struggle with compromise and patience and believe that every thing under the sun has to be asserted.

Yes, I’ve heard/read that a Muslim woman is not obligated to clean the house, or even nurse her child. She has the right to never lift a finger. But even when one has more than one right/option, there is one that is more “afzal.” For instance, Islam gives you the right to exact revenge that is equivalent to the harm done to you…however…to forgive is more afzal/superipor. The same religion which grants a wife the right to not lift a finger…also places great emphasis on the maintaining of rishtay. And rishtay are maintained through a mutual give and take, through mutual compromise, and picking and choosing battles…not through arrogance and asserting rights blindly. The Prophet SAWS was not one to demand anything of his wives; he even did helped out with the domestic responsibilities. But if he SAWS did make a domestic request of one of his wives, I suspect that they wouldn’t fire back with..“Oh-yeah! I don’t have to do this and it’s my right.” The women of today are much “lesser” in status and character and iman and ibadat than Hazrat Khadija/Fatima/Aisha (RA)…but they’re gonna crow about all their “to-do” and “don’t have to” rights.

A man does not have the “right” to rape/assault a women based on the way she is dressed. But WHY did Allah order women to dress modestly? It’s because our Creator knows fully well that some men will use the aqal He has gifted them and exercise self-control…whereas others won’t. Allah knew that. Despite endowing us with intellect and a zameer, He knew that some men wouldn’t use them and will stoop to lower than animals. And so, He ordered women to take precautions as well. In another thread it was said that Islam has set a punishment only for the rapist and not the woman for the way she’s dressed. Ummm…just because there’s no specified “hadd” punishment designated for a scantily dressed woman…doesn’t mean that there is also no gunnah on her for not following an order. That’s something to think about. Just because one person committed made more of a transgression doesn’t necessarily mean that the other person is completely faultless. If you taunt someone and the other person punches you in the face, the latter is MORE wrong…but that doesn’t that the former’s actions or choices were 100 A-okay! “Feminism” might be all about men being the ones to exercise self-control whilst women get to do whatever…but Islam is about balance and BOTH genders being accountable and responsible.

Making blanket statements about Pakistani men …and women living in Pakistan…and Muslim women in Anreeka is not going to resolve anything; it will only fuel and inflame.

The climbing divorce rate is actually alarming to me as well but what else was to happen logically? Pushing women to extremes in Pakistan will produce these results. Its not an opinion, its what is happening. Less women want to live with abusive in-laws, less women want to be doormats, less women want to spend their lives living for others without asking for anything in return. I know several women in my mom’s generation who spent their entire lives in abusive marriages for the sake of their children. And I know several women in my own generation who walked out of abusive marriages with their children because they had the means to support themselves. Why would they not? It is better than being beaten in front of your children. And yes, I know Pakistani men who beat their wives in front of their children in America. There comes a day when you can’t hope your kids won’t remember…they will. No woman wants to leave but if the situation calls for it, now she can. What else will happen if the trend continues to oppress women? Logically speaking, where else will long term abuse take us? There will come a day when one side will say enough is enough. That’s where we are. Men stopped being men and became jail wardens.

Everything else you’ve highlighted is great but here’s the thing…men and women in Islam will never be equal. In order to keep the scales balanced, each party has to fulfill their obligations and grant the other their rights with respect and courtesy. I see women being raised to obey their husbands but men are never taught to respect their wives. Rather to control them. This thread was started to find out why a woman is on a can of shaving cream because a woman should not be seen or heard. She should only be dealt with when necessary and confined to her home because she was meant to stay indoors. This is not going to work in today’s society…it isn’t as you can see with the rise of divorces.

The courtesy and kindness should always go both ways…not just the woman working her butt off to earn a spot in a man’s home where she can spend the rest of her days. Reality is…many women do not have to do that anymore. It is no longer a need and if it is not a need…why would anyone stick it out in a bad marriage? Its important to recognize the shift in our culture because ignoring it is not productive. They why’s need answers if there will ever be solutions.

Forbidding a woman from speaking too much, wearing certain things, going out, talking too loud, seeing her parents, working, etc. Pakistani Islam is focused 100% on forbidding women from doing things…not encouraging her to realize her full potential.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Pakistani_Prince

Truth hurts.

No one is hurt…always consider the source before getting hurt

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

No one is hurt…always consider the source before getting hurt

Read the blog.. lolz.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Pakistani_Prince

Read the blog.. lolz.

You really think anyone’s going to pull up your blog after your idiotic comments here?

Take a seat.

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

**
Forbidding a woman from speaking too much, wearing certain things, talking out loud, **seeing her parents, working, etc. Pakistani Islam is focused 100% on forbidding women from doing things…not encouraging her to realize her full potential.

Lol all these things are mentioned in Quran and Hadess, just like there are guidelines for men.. If you are not willing to submit your will to ALLAH, you are free then..

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Reha

You really think anyone’s going to pull up your blog after your idiotic comments here?

Take a seat.

Yeah i have proved you wrong on your “reporting” bluff and showed you the actual mirror. Get your house ( America ) in order first. 70% of sexual violence against women goes unroported there.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Pakistani_Prince

lol read the blog of your friend, she is kinda hurt. And yeah i proved you wrong on your “reporting” bluff and showed you the actual mirror. Get your house ( America ) in order first. 70% of sexual violence against women goes unroported there.

There is no bluff…its true. And you don’t have the power to prove anyone wrong or right…you’re not smart enough.

[Reha]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

@Pakistani_Prince

Lol all these things are mentioned in Quran and Hadess, just like there are guidelines for men.. If you are not willing to submit your will to ALLAH, you are free then..

What are the guidelines for men?

[Shareefbacha95]

Re: The hypocrisy of liberals

This thread is going around in circles lol.