Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
**llxxll what made you guys want to move back to Saudi from the U.S how would compare Pak and U.S and Saudi…please be descriptive…where do you prefer to be? **
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
llxxll** I am so jealous of you right now making Umrah every other week…end of the day…we are all going to die…so fortunate you are that you are making some investment in akhira..i doubt there are people trying to insult our prophet in that land…well where I live there are..and am I to assume that there is going to be any barkat here? **
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
sorry for the late response, needed to be on a computer and not my mobile to write a detailed response
experience ranged for people. my parents enjoyed it early on as their siblings had all moved back about the same time so having a large family back together in the same city was great. The political situation was tough, they had been gone so long that figuring out the system was a challenge and they were not used to all the corruption, and you have to play it even for basics, e.g. the home phone line will stop working and then you wait for it to get fixed, pay the repair guy some extra and it will get fixed right away otherwise not. And this is just minor stuff.
My dad did well in his career, retiring as CEO of a major pakistan based regional (asia+ africa) engineering firm, however, there were times where because of his work and not bowing under pressure, there was personal danger to us. Educational opportunities were limited, I mean if you were bright like my sis who got into a med school, or my bros who got into top engineering colleges, then you could get a good career locally and not have to move, for dumbasses like me, i had to be sent back abroad, and I chose to go to US rather than back to UK just for a change,ended up staying, but thats a whole different story. My younger bro moved a few years after me. My sister got married and there were kidnap threats on my brother in law, to a point that his families commercial orchards were torched by goons in govt. They moved to US on a very short notice. basically within 2 years of moving, the family was incomplete because i moved, 3 year after that my sister moved, and another year later my younger brother. Then there were threats against us, my youngest brother was in college in a diff city in Pakistan and was instructed not to come back for visits, as were we. It was a tough time. Dad continued to do well professionally, the family that was there though slowly started to move again, career reasons, safety reasons etc. my uncle who had moved from US to pak was kidnapped, before that he was carjacked..stuff that may be sadly normal to people who live there, but it was too much.
In the end, parents were the only ones left in Pakistan, all of us siblings were back in UK or US, and finally my parents moved back to UK as well. safety was one concern, and as they are getting older, being alone meant that any issues in the city and they would be kinda cut off from everything. healthcare was another concern. while quality of care at some hospitals there is great and when you convert costs in dollars and pounds, its very affordable, but still limited. A cousin who had lived abroad until high school days stayed in Pak even though his siblings moved back to UK, he was doing great in his career and then due to needs for his child with aspergers who simply could not get the facilities and therapies he could get in UK, my cousin had to leave a very senior position with a multinational and try and reestablish himself in UK. The point is that many people live through all the limitation and challenges pakistan had, some who have options choose not to, for various reasons, some do. In the end it is your call.
I had a generally positive experience in Pakistan, but as I said, i was in my teens, was there for two years, and knew after the first year that I was going to be moving back out, so I never really developed a bond with the place as many people, including my siblings have. Its for that reason that I have not been back to Pakistan since Jan of 99, as my grandparents passed away, I had no real reason to go, have some relatives there but then I am closer to the relatives i have in UK or US or canada. Those of my cousins that I was close to while in Pak, were all that have moved to Pak from US, or dubai and have all since moved back out. my friends from high school, are mostly all abroad. I dont dislike the place, have fond memories, but it has never been home. So if you dont get warm fuzzies from my view of the place that is the reason.
In hindsight, as the family decided to move out of saudi arabia and were evaluating options of Pakistan or back to UK, with everything I know, it may have been better for us as a family to either move to UK, or for us siblings to move to UK and then for parents to move back there in a few years rather than 2 decades that they spent. But then we all would not be the people we are today from the experiences we had. what other challenges we could have faced instead..who knows.
So think that its not just about you, but your kids future and opportunities and how divided and distant could you be from your kids in the future.
This is where I have seen success, people who have spent a big chunk of their lives in Pakistan, moving abroad for a bit and then moving right back, and with kids who are still young. and, with a strong family network.
people have shared their views on the families living apart, i am opposed to it from what I have seen, we never had to do it, until we started moving away for college but that is a different scenario. Even in my career here, i left consulting work where i had to travel 4 days a week, because I felt that will really impact the home life.
If I were in your place, I would not burn the ships, but plan it out for 2-3 years, figure out city and schools, secure a job or start a business whatever it is that you want, take the family and have them be all set in a way that they are not missing out or falling behind if you do move back. I would set goals and factors you will base your decision to stay or move back. and review it on an ongoing basis.
Look, in the end based on your perspective and your viewpoints, as much as I personally disagree with it, this probably is a good move for you to try out, after weighing all the options, making a planned move, and giving yourself enough time to make a decision to stay or come back.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
i know the above was a rambling post..it is a complex thing, because I am trying to be as honest with my experience and perspective, while not trying to present it as the ultimate truth. It varies by people.
a few additional thoughts
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Do think about the tradeoffs of what you are willing to tradeoff for what…and then as you experience it compare and see, and then make the call. e.g. how much less security for how much more of a feeling of a ‘islamic’ environment…write it down…review it later.
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as I said while I personally disagree with your perspective, and my views may be biased by it, you owe yourself to really make sure that the ideas and hypothesis you have are really true. no one else can convince you of them being mostly right or mostly wrong, so do your due diligence..before you decide to move. one of my mentors once told me…dont look at just what you are getting out of, but also what you are getting into..and why. it was on the topic of leaving one company for another. but it applies
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
If there is anyones advice here u should take its Hadeels. I speak from smeone who is born n raised in the west. we moved as a family to pakistan when I the eldest was bout 23 and my brother the youngest was about 13. We lived in Islamabad. Needles to say we all struggled. We liked pakistan the country and all that it offerred, apna pun, family, religion etc etc… but what did we get? None of that.
The ppl be it family or strangers treated us like kings wen they knew we’d come from englaaaaandddd and cud offer them sme financial assistance with smething, but treated us like crap once they found we were there to stay n not going back. My dad got screwed over by sooo many ppl soooo many times by sooo many different ways trying to set up a business. Why? cus he was a simple saada guy with no hidden agendas, no malice, no chalaaki, no evil intentions, and most of all my dad was honest and treated others how he would expected to be treated, but what did he get for it??? got screwed thats what. Then Bombs going off left right n centre in Isb and rawalpindi. Even the simplest of jobs were made ten times harder just because there is sooo much fraud happenning n ppl trying to rob ur arse in broad daylight.
If we could have lived without stepping outside of our home we would have lived there perfectly happy, but because thats not possible and u need to go to work, go to school do your shopping, do whatever, the ppl there will just make ur life a living hell. Because of paki ppl we moved back even tho we had sold everything to move over there and had nothing to come back to, we had no choice but to come back and start over.
We lived out there for 4 damned years! Why did we go there in the first place i hear u ask. one was all the reasons u are saying, but the biggest reason was for mine and my brothers health. We both suffer from atopic eczema and there is no cure in the Uk whereas in Pakistan just the weather and pure drinking water from the wells was enough to cure us. 4 years alhumdulilah was enough for it not to cme back once I returned but unfortunatly my brother still suffers from it. Had we been able to stay longer he might have been able to get it out of his system too like I did, but wasnt to be. And sorry to say it on this forum, but it was the ppl that made everything so difficult for us.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
P.s Sorry if my above post offends anyone but I was just giving OP what he asked for, ppls experiences of moving to Pakistan and that was mine.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
OH and X2 sorry i missed reading ur amazing post. Soo much of what u wrote happened to us as well exact same stuff. Oh my god, ur post X2 bought tears to my eyes. God bless u and your family.
homesick, I’ve read the first two pages of this thread . Will read the rest tmr. But this what I have got to say.
First of all, u r blessed to be in the USA. Ppl wish they could be there. Pakistan is great too! But will ur job be good enough to buy a big house and have the good stuff ie driver etc?
Maybe you can move to a less expensive state? NY is pretty expensive . Try North Carolina. Many Pakistanis and gd Muslim culture. How about Chicago or Texas ?! Many Muslims there too.
Trust me. Muslims in Pakistaan aren’t the perfect example. I feel that SOOO many Muslims in the US are way better than the Muslim youths I’ve met in Pak.
Educate ur kids frm a young age about Islam, go to masjids. U r so lucky that masjids in US welcome women, have English lectures etc. in Pak; women hardly go to mosques! It’s soo very different frm the US.
When your kids are older , make yearly trips to Pak and they will remember their culture and be exposed to it always. Talk in Urdu at home.
Face it, US education will be better than Pak. My cousins all grew up in Canada and US and mA they r so Islamic , even more than me who grew up in a place full of Muslims!!!
I do feel you need to experience a totally new place in the USA with gd ppl. Mix with Indian Muslims and Pakistanis who share the same qualities and values as u. I agree that “fakes” can be around but they can’t all be bad.
if you decide to move, settling in Pakistan will depend on how old you are and in what line of work you are in.
Truth is, pakistan will never quite be as safe as US.
Lots more I can type but many ppl have said it already .
Wish you all the best.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
kiddo, the challenge is that the older you get the tougher it is to uproot and move and restart life, at least socially.
I know its a joke, but I am explaining it for others who may not understand the implications.
My folks moved back to UK permanently a few years ago. I think it was minimum 5 years to a decade later than it should have been. my bro is thee, they have their home which has been there since we were kids, uncle is next door, aunt is 2 miles away, other relatives and friends in the area, but its still a change and they did leave behind friends and family they had been spending much of their time with for 2 decades, and then readjust to UK, even though they visited every year or two, it can be tough.
It would be even tougher if they moved here with me, because they really dont know anyone here, I know of ppl on GS and in my city who faced it and you have to plan for that loneliness even if you are living with your kids and grandkids, u are not nearby friends, or are not close to them physically.
god bless skype, since they have started using it, they are happier being in touch with everyone everywhere.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
I was very young when we moved to Pakistan from the UK, but hated the move. Esp, people, who are rude to the “T”. My dad always regretted moving back to Pakistan and after decades spent in Pakistan he is now back in the UK and even though he moved from a big house to a match box sized house in the UK, he loves it!
I myself moved to the USA after marriage, I had never been there before but was very happy with that idea and love it here. I went to Pakistan twice and cut my visit short both times, hated it so much there.
Yes, I guess if you are super rich you can be happy in Pakistan but I love the fact that an average person can drink water out of the faucet here in the USA and not worry about bottled water. Even an average person has no electricity problems and the best, even though the average salesperson in a store may hate me from inside due to my skin color, they always smile and greet me politely, whereas in Pakistan the average shop keeper will generally lack manners. In Pakistan they will say to my face you are fat, the average gora won’t. The average Pakistani will say to my daughter in front of her, she has awful teeth (buck teeth) while goras will describe her due to those teeth as a cute bunny. yes, here’s why I live here even though I don’t have as much financial freedom as I did in Pakistan.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
My parents to go to Pak every so often…my dadi is still there. Every single time they say the same thing…“ye vo jaga nahin hai ab”. I feel for them when they say that. I wonder how they feel when they go to the country they grew up in and find it in such a sad state.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
absolutely!!!
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
Its just sad..we are oprhaned in the sense we have a homeland that i suppose we ourselves have failed as a nation..it’s one thing to travel to other lands and broaden your horizon..it’s quite another to be forced to leave your homeland to go anywhere else to make a living..I suppose brother Hadeel has a lot of valid points which cannot be overlooked ..I am going to make another visit to Pakistan within the year inshallah…just to visit and attend a wedding..the ulamaa I have asked so far have don’t me not to stay here permanently..they were pretty clear..they also advised me not to just pick up and leave without a plan..currently in the u.s i don’t have any goals.. i dont’ want to own a house (it comes with sood anyway), i dont’ want the luxury car and all the other things in exchange for my life ..as those things come with an unwritten contract of slavery…so my journey or the absence of it rather continues..
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
Brother Hadeel is a smart one 
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
Brother Hadeel is also quite masculine. I pretty much learned the arts of man from him.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
You should make an effort to focus on the positive things in life…the blessings you have been bestowed with.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
good for you! and if this wedding is in summer then with having no electricity at all(rural areas) to 12-13 hours of no electricity (especially when u cant sleep at all at night)will fully give you a taste of meaningful life.
Please, do read,
‘There’s No Hijrah to Saudi’ - Saudi Life](http://www.saudilife.net/life-and-society/115-muslim-world/29735-there-s-no-hijrah-to-saudi)
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
Reha, I don’t think he’s being a pessimist or a nashukra. He just doesn’t feel at home in the US and I can relate to these feelings. People who are born and bred in the US or have their entire khandaan with them are obviously gonna feel at home but they need to put themselves in his shoes. Forget Pakistan, would they even move to the EU, leaving behind their friends and family? Probably not. They’re content where they are but not everyone else is. I am an EU citizen so Alhumdulillah I can avail of opportunities all across the EU but I am still quite serious about moving out of the EU altogether. If it’s a mistake, so be it. Let me make my own mistakes and learn my own lessons. It’s good to step outside of your comfort zone and do a bit of exploring. And I’d rather travel and explore when I’m young as opposed to when I have a family and a million responsibilities. Similarly, homesick needs to find a place to settle down, whether it’s Pak or KSA or back to the US, before his kids grow up and there are other complications.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
^
I agree with Huma too. Sometimes you just don’t feel like the place you live is where you’re meant to be. You just don’t feel like calling it home. Others might not get you reasons, but that doesn’t mean your reasons are stupid.
Yeah, he should have moved before he had kids or marriage, but it’s still not too late. We don’t want him to turn into a grumpy old man who spews hate about a place despite spending all his life there. Even if he decides to return to the US, he’d have a reason for doing so. A reason he doesn’t have right now.
Re: Salaam need advice about moving back to pakistan
I think most of us living in the West love our countries and are thankfully content with our lives here so it is kind of hard of relate to the OP’s rather unique predicament. But, at the end of the day, Homesick, it’s your life, your preferences, and your decision. It’s not the end of the world even if you moved to Pakland. 180 million people are living there after all–and probably not everyone would want to leave the country even if they had a choice. Other countries are in dire straits too. Democratic Republic of Congo, Burkina Faso, Djibouti, Zimbabwe, etc come to mind. People are living there too, and, as in Pak, at least many of the elite are probably lovin’ it as well while generously allowing the hoi polloi to eat their cakes!
(Also, when we take exception to, say, gas “load shedding” in winter or expect to have 24/7 uninterrupted electricity in Pak we are looking at things through #firstworld lens. The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis simply cannot afford these amenities, or rather luxuries, that we take for granted. Yet, they scale down their expectations and survive. I know I can’t but they somehow do.
At the same time, “kaamwalis” and other domestic help appear to be dime a dozen in Pak. Depending on your perspective that may look like a perk of living there. Although, personally, it pains me to see how the moneyed classes, which hardly pay taxes, exploit the poverty in Pakistan; how even many apparently educated families seem to have a pre-teen “nanny,” who can sometimes be seen in restaurants, dressed in rags, sitting quietly in an adjacent table looking in the other direction while tending to a child barely a few years younger than her as the rest of her master’s family nonchalantly noshes on their feast. It is painful to see how people degrade their “servants” and pay them a pittance. How, in a nutshell, the cycle of poverty perpetuates unencumbered in Pakistan, generation after generation.
But perhaps I am just being too judgmental?
I hope not, but perhaps it is too ethnocentric of me to expect, for example, that the security and peace of mind and the rights and freedoms-- including the freedom of religion–that I enjoy as a minority in the US should be extended to minorities, religious and otherwise, in Pakistan? Although again, for what it’s worth, there are a few worse countries than Pak for minorities to live in. Saudi Arabia, for example, has a longstanding policy of suppressing Shias and, of course, no temples or churches are allowed there. Likewise, in most countries of the Middle East, the native Jewish population has been virtually wiped out during the last half century…)
But I digress. I think it was John F. Kennedy who said, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” But no one is indispensable in America or elsewhere. If you want to leave this country–your country-- millions of others in other parts of the world would be more than happy to trade places with you. And someone indeed would. Even if you are stuck in some crappy job rest assured some Mr. *Falane Falane *Carlos from the Dominican Republic would be more than happy to replace you at work!
So, maybe you should live where your heart seems to belong, where you think you would be happy, where you think your family would be happy. If you think it’s Pak then be it. Give it a try if you want. Although I never considered living there permanently and I know I can’t, I have been to Islamabad in mid-2000s, when Pakistan itself seemed to be flourishing, and was struck by how beautiful the city seemed. Maybe things would improve once again in Pak. We can always hope, right? Meanwhile perhaps it is possible to try to live up to what Shakespeare opined: there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.