I wouldn't go as far as trusting their wisdom raindance, they have done alot of evil things, and there is alot of corruption (sex, drugs, rock and roll lol) and disagreement within the royal family, please dont hold them to that light. however I dont think they should be criticized with how they are handling makkah, maybe im a bit of a modernist, and I;m all for the rapid development (though they should have some consideration for some islamic sites which people hold dear) whilst others are more traditional and want to preserve makkah but each to their own. That's what this topic was initially about. The whole how they are handling makkah thing not on them as a whole because really that is very complex.
And the problem with people like you is that you can't listen to the other person without accusing them of one thing or the other!
Med, dude, I have lived in KSA and I'm still very much in touch with my friends from over there. I myself have seen some jerks driving by, hanging out of the car just to poke the ladies walking on the footpath! My friends have told me plenty of stories of how bad-dimagh saudis can be. The other day, a friend showed me a video that he recorded himself of the religious police who were literally involved in hatha paayi with a bunch of students for dancing to music in the middle of the road! They don't have many nice things to say about the government either, with regards to their attitude towards non-nationals. But there's a reason why they have lived in KSA all their lives and don't plan on moving any time soon. So I've seen both sides - the good and the bad - and I condemn the bad and acknowledge the good and I certainly don't blame any other country for Pakistan's problems but Pakistan itself!
And no, I'm not attacking you. Sorry if I came across like that. I was referring to the general attitude of posters here after reading the entire thread. I was off-topic only after reading some of the racist comments here. You can carry on discussing what you want to discuss. Cheers!
OH OFCOURSE. Like you read one post, and decided im some mindless Pakistani who hates Arabs and is in love with West! Hypocrite much?
The point here is to critisize the Saudis for what the ARE guilty off. It IS a fact that Saudis finance many of Pakistans extremist Madrassas. Thats indisputable and you should acknowlede that. It is also a fact that this war on Terror, started in Saudi Arabia, NOT Pakistan. You should also acknowledge thaat. It is also a fact that MANY Saudi groups have funded extremists, including those in PAK. So you need to acknowledge that.
We can critisize Pak where it deserves, and rightly so. But this is about Saudi And how so many people are willing to give them a free ride. They shouldnt be defended for what the do wrong, and what they do wrong has a HUGE impact on the rest of the world.
Vali Nasr is very much in agreement and proponent of what Iran has been doing all along in muslims countries. Funding and encouraging shiite minorities to start conflict with sunni majorities. I write him........
As for Madrassa funding, it happened largely during Afghan war, much less now. During Afghan war it was Pakistani establishment themselves who asked for Saudi sponsoship of these elements. Bhutto hardly religious by any stretch of imagination was first one to bring Himat Yar from Afghanistan and establish his contacts with Saudis.
They dont finance madrassas in Pakistan? What are you basing this on? I mean, for whatever credentials Vali Nasr may have, he apparently has done the research. And its not as if its a secret where many of these madraases are getting their funding.
And what of the money being sent by Saudis to Al Qaeda and other groups including the Taliban? Is that also money Pakistan requested?
No matter how hard I try, I fail to understand the thread Header ! " OUR SAUDI VENDETTA "
How do you begin to respond to some thing which can be 'Personal' or 'Open ended'
I take it as 'Open ended cum personal vendetta of the author (Who is on my ignore list and I can not see his posts etc)
As soon as I shed my thoughts on ^ his personal vendetta and what not, my post is deleted as hostile !
I repeatedly have been saying this and I'l say this again! Unlike Pakistan Saudi Arabia which is and old monarchy and the roots go back way back into our Deeni Conceptional past !
I trust their wisdom more than I can trust any modern time 'Molana' 'Mufti' 'Author' 'Alam-e-deen', and for one simple reason whereas Pakistanis are becoming more influenced by these 'Authors+Alim-e-deen' on day-to-day matters of life that makes confusion an ordinary glitch of the soul. It is quite evident and can be seen,,,
Modern/young and rudderless Saudis are found in every society and as such they cannot and should not be the gauge of standards !
Try harder. It was in reply to you claim that we who critisize SAUDI DO SO ONLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A VENDETTA. It to show you that criticsm isnt for the sake of criticsm alone, bbut because they deserve it.
They dont finance madrassas in Pakistan? What are you basing this on? I mean, for whatever credentials Vali Nasr may have, he apparently has done the research. And its not as if its a secret where many of these madraases are getting their funding.
And what of the money being sent by Saudis to Al Qaeda and other groups including the Taliban? Is that also money Pakistan requested?
There is no evidence that Saudi government has funded Taliban or Al Qaeda or facilitated it.
If there are individuals in KSA sending money to militant organisations then such individuals are present all over the world.
There is no evidence that Saudi government has funded Taliban or Al Qaeda or facilitated it.
If there are individuals in KSA sending money to militant organisations then such individuals are present all over the world.
Like I said on the last page, read "Sleeping with the Devil" by Robert Baer. There are members within the Saudi family that are sympathetic to the cause of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and they support them through indirect funding (usually in the form of charities that operate in countries like Pakistan).
edit: Also, in the Wikileaks diplomatic cables leak, the US authorities acknowledged that the Saudis have "taken only limited action” against money flowing through Saudi Arabia to groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
There is no evidence that Saudi government has funded Taliban or Al Qaeda or facilitated it.
If there are individuals in KSA sending money to militant organisations then such individuals are present all over the world.
I didnt say the GOVT of Saudi was funneling money necessarily. But they certainly are guilty of complacency, by not stropping such people or groups that do so from within their kingdom.
And according to intelligence estimates, Saudi is a big source of the finances of these groups.
And its an open secret that many of the extremist spewing madrassas get funding from Saudi sources.
Complacency ! Isnt that something the whole world accuses Pakistan of despite lossing thousands of soldiers in FATA. I think its more a propaganda than fact. Frankly its our government's job to locate the source of funding and cut it down. I dont see anyone in our government blaming Saudis of not doing something they asked them to do.
Complacency ! Isnt that something the whole world accuses Pakistan of despite lossing thousands of soldiers in FATA. I think its more a propaganda than fact. Frankly its our government's job to locate the source of funding and cut it down. I dont see anyone in our government blaming Saudis of not doing something they asked them to do.
Yes! Pakistan is GUILTY of complacency! But then so are the SAUDIS!
But because Pakistan is a poor basket case of a country, it gets spat on in public, while the Saudis with their Billions get away with it. Money Talks.
Pakistan govt cant do anything to stop Saudi funding of terrorist organizations. Pak is a lap dog that is dependent on Saudi oil money for one thing, but even if they weren't, there is only so much they can do to pressure a foreign country to control extremists within their borders. Ultimately its up to the SAUDIS to clean up their own mess in Saudia, because its there mess. The problem is that their mess is killing Pakistanis.
Upto now i only hear bashing without any substance. If there isnt any Pakistani officials taking up this matter to Saudis then i dont buy it. I hope u wont now accuse our own government of collaboarting with "evil" like Qasab deniers do.
Saudi Arabia represent in some ways the antithesis of Shiaism and Qadiani fitna...hence the blind hatred...Saudia has been the most ardent and true friend of Pakistan even more so then China...yet there is only so much one can do with regards to hatred driven by false religious dogma...
Saudi Arabia represent in some ways the antithesis of Shiaism and Qadiani fitna...hence the blind hatred...Saudia has been the most ardent and true friend of Pakistan even more so then China...yet there is only so much one can do with regards to hatred driven by false religious dogma...
Why are you such a bigot? And why hasnt the govt arrested you yet?
Pakistanis dont want your pseudo Islamic fitna. We want Islam as its practiced and has been practiced in Pakistan for centuries. Why dont you take your terrorist ideology and put it where it belong... The Trash.
Saudi Arabia represent in some ways the antithesis of Shiaism and Qadiani fitna...hence the blind hatred...Saudia has been the most ardent and true friend of Pakistan even more so then China...yet there is only so much one can do with regards to hatred driven by false religious dogma...
I didnt say the GOVT of Saudi was funneling money necessarily. But they certainly are guilty of complacency, by not stropping such people or groups that do so from within their kingdom. And according to intelligence estimates, Saudi is a big source of the finances of these groups. And its an open secret that many of the extremist spewing madrassas get funding from Saudi sources.
Swings and roundabouts Med. If elements within the Saudi family really do fund extremism in our country, then it must pale in comparison to what our government funds in Indian held Kashmir.
Why are you such a bigot? And why hasnt the govt arrested you yet? Pakistanis dont want your pseudo Islamic fitna. We want Islam as its practiced and has been practiced in Pakistan for centuries. Why dont you take your terrorist ideology and put it where it belong... The Trash.
I don't see much wrong in Che's post. I'd hold back on shiaism, but if Qadianism isn't fitna then I don't know what is. And it certainly isn't what, according to you, 'has been practiced in Pakistan for centuries'.
