Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Wondering why people here are gushing over the Saudis. The Saudi state really is an anathema to everything Islam stands for, yet people defend the Saudis like their defending thier parents. While I could care less about the Saudis as a state, they do influence the Muslim world (mostly in a negative way), and so they are relevant.

A pivotal theme in current Islamic political discourse is a demand for justice, a key tenet of the Quran. A popular complaint in Islamic political argument is discrimination against Muslims in the west such as the ban of the veil in European countries, minarets in Switzerland or racial profiling in many western countries. Unfortunately, there is a conspicuous lack of looking inwards to practices within Muslim countries. Muslims from all over the world have just completed the annual pilgrimage, the Hajj in Saudi Arabia. The Hajj represents a critical pillar of Islam and is supposed to represent a universal gathering of Muslims, which transcends race, ethnicity, color or any other distinction. Muslims are supposed to meet in the sacred precincts surrounding the holy city of Mecca as equals wearing the same simple clothing meant to symbolize perfect brotherhood, where individuals or groups do not see themselves as separate entities and differences of lineage, tribe or race have no bearing.
The experiences of the Hajj are very different depending on which part of the world you originate from. If you hail from Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states, you will perform the hajj in relative luxury and privilege, which is denied to Muslims from the sub-continent, Africa or the rest of the world. Those from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states have a different Hajj based on luxurious accommodations, and preferential treatment in performing the rituals. The latest egregious practice is the high-speed rail service, which transports the pilgrims from Mecca to the sacred sites where the rituals of the Hajj are performed. The train is reserved only for Saudis and citizens from the Gulf countries. Citizens from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries can be transported to the holy sites within a few minutes. For others, they will have to take the bus or walk which could take many hours each day. I cannot think of any other place in the world today that practices such crass racism. Imagine a train in the United States that states no Arabs – just people from the west – can ride in. The real tragedy is the lack of outrage from Muslims.
The Hajj as a gathering of Muslims, based on equality, simplicity and brotherhood is a fiction. The Hajj is a gigantic money making endeavor. All visits to the holy place have to take place under the auspices of a Saudi institution or company, which is totally Saudi-owned. Every opportunity is geared towards profit maximization. The Saudi companies in turn enter into agreements with parties in the local country where the pilgrim resides. The Saudi company takes care of the negotiation with the local hotels and other parties to organize and pay for the accommodations and internal transportation and the like. Saudis have profited greatly from the pilgrims who have been exploited on a scale that is beyond imagination. A two week visit to Saudi Arabia during the Hajj period (if you are not sponsored) in modest accommodations costs more than a month-long world tour (not counting the fact that for five days during the two week period, the pilgrim is staying in a tent). Imagine the outrage if a Saudi was told that he could not do business in the United States (including booking a hotel) except though a United States entity?
Saudi Arabia represents one of the worse examples of a stratified society at the apex of which sits the descendants of its founder Ibn Saud constituted in the current royal family. And then appears a pecking order based on lineage or clan and others recognized as Saudi. Then come hundreds of thousands of individuals (including second and third generation Saudi born), followed by hundreds of thousands of foreign guest workers.
The sum total of rights and privileges enjoyed – be it access to jobs, education, access to property, welfare benefits or the performance of the Hajj depends upon where one belongs in the pecking order. Those at the top enjoy considerable rights and power over those at the bottom. The most affected group is the foreign worker, particularly the foreign woman worker. These guest workers operate under a kafeel (master) to whom many are indebted for years, a situation that invites trafficking in people and a relationship akin to slavery. Over the past few days, we have been informed about several incidents of abuse of foreign guest workers from Indonesia in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. Where is the outrage from Muslims and their scholars? Each year, thousands of female workers seek protection at foreign embassies from abuse and rape. International human rights groups and others have documented the rampant abuse, lack of fair trial standards, denial of freedom of movement, forced labor approaching conditions of slavery and beating of foreign workers. Also documented is the weak judicial system, which offers little protection to those at the bottom, rung of society. The judicial system gives more credence to the wealthy and locals in disputes involving foreigners.
Islamic law derived from the sayings of the prophet Mohammad articulates a vision of human dignity (in ways analogous to modern human rights) in stating “No Arab has any superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; nor has a white man any superiority over a black man, or the black many any superiority over the white man. You are all the children of Adam, and Adam was created from Clay”. Conspicuously absent are protests among Muslims about racism, racial discrimination, gender discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance prevalent in so many Muslim countries starting with the cradle of Islam, Saudi Arabia.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

I dont agree with that. not saying that your in the wrong but the whole "doing hajj inluxury" thing.
the main purpose of Hajj is to complete an act which is complusory and your doing it for the sake of Allah SWT. surely isnt it better to perform Hajj in simplicity rather than a lavish form? end of the day, thats what our Prophet PBUH has taught us. and if a hajj is performed being escorted in Mercs and Rolls Royces and your living in 5 star luxury accommodation, then isnt that stepping away from the real reason why you are performing a hajj in the first place?
just my opnion peeps

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Saudi Arabia exports extremism and for that reason I have no real love for the Arabs. Naturally, I care about Mecca and Medina but couldn't care less if the rest KSA went up in flames.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Saudi vendetta indeed. I don’t gush over Saudis, I know very well they have their faults, there are many racists, sexists and fascists. The article you have posted is nothing new, crimes like these exist in every society. In fact you could probably write a ten times longer article on us Pakistanis. Salman Taseer? Sialkot? Missing persons? Domestic abuse? Corrupt and rotten leadership? That’s us. But we have good amongst us as do Saudis, I lived in that country for 16 years, I had a very happy childhood despite what you might think happens there. I’ve gone to school with Saudis, had Saudi neighbours, my dad’s had Saudi kafils too and guess what we don’t have any horror stories to tell.

Coming to Pakistan after having lived there, you realise that most Saudis follow Islam much closely than we do. Look at our masjids, barely one or two lines for obligatory prayers, compare that to the masjids in Saudi Arabia and you’ll see the difference. Look at the distortion in Islam we’ve brought about in our country. Most people think it’s okay to skip prayers, as long as you go prostrate in a mazar, or go pass through a bahishti darwaza. All these Hindu customs we’ve adopted, an absolute joke. We have no right to point fingers, obviously you’ve got some beef with Saudis so you can carry on your anti-Saudi propaganda.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Anyone can perform a five star hajj if they can afford it, arab or non-arab, contrary to what Med911 would have you believe.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

i went to Madina and all i can say is WOW.
the people are so humble and warm. i lost my wallet and naturally you begin to worry. this saudi old man spoke to my by means of pointing and actions and asked whats wrong. i displayed to him that i had lost my wallet. bless his leather socks he spoke to various wardens and found my wallet which was handed in to cleaner. i said thank you and the only way i knew how was to say "Shukran". by this time my friend came and he is fluent in arabic. i asked him to ask this man about him and my friend told me that this man is poor etc. without thinking i offered him some money for his troubles. his response was "La" (No) he said if you are going to give money, give it to a poor on the street or a widow with children. his home is masjid e nabvi and if i wished to help him, for me to do dua for him atleast once after fajr namaz. mashallah. THATS what you call a humble experience, one i will never forget in my entire life.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

med 911 does have a SERIOUS vendetta against saudis.

yes they can and your absoloutly right my brother. to be honest i think anyone would given the reflection of their bank balance. but my point is regardless of whoever does a "5 star hajj" shouldnt it be done in simplicity?

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Maybe it should be since that would be more in line with the hajj objective of equality amongst Muslims and brotherhood, but as it stands every person wants to do the hajj as comfortably as possible, they want their transport to be top class, they want the best living conditions and the best food while at hajj, basically the most they have to do is turn up. Anyway I think this is a rather subjective area and I'm sure Allah judges your hajj by your intentions, if your intention there is simply to make yourself as comfortable as possible instead of standing before Allah in atonement for your sins, you will be judged accordingly.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

what else do u expect?

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Post of the year.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Lets not generalize and suggest that all guppies here defend Saudis :)... there have been multiple threads where people have criticized Saudis. Just like there are people who criticize Pakistan and there are people who praise Pakistan, there are people who criticize Saudis and there are people who praise them. This board reflects that as well.

Lucky you that you don't have horror stories to tell about Saudi kafil, my father was a professional banker hence his 'kafil' wasn't a person but my uncle was a technician and his kafil was a 'person' and boy he had stories to tell. Similarly there are many many stories, they have their 'fair' share of horrors and 'goods'.

That is true but to keep the rail thingie for 'gulf citizens only' is racism.

Lets not pick one experience and paint all Saudis with that color, we had horror of 'pick pocket' and we lost our passports boy we experienced story, we saw different sides of 'locals'. I lived in KSA for about 10 years of childhood and faced all kinds of situation, there are good people and there are bad people but their law smacks of racism not just against foreigners but also against locals when it comes to 'locals vs royals' or 'affluents'.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Technically my father's kafil was also his company and not a person, but he had a kafil for his business who was pretty good. Similarly I know many people who have excellent relationships with their kafils, my dad's friend has around 5 million riyals invested into different ventures all on his kafil's name, which shows that Saudis can also be trustworthy friends.

Yes but they haven't said it will be for gulf citizens every year, this year was a trial run at something like 25% capacity, let's wait for next year before judging.

Pickpockets are common especially in Umrah season but they are rarely Saudis, most are Umrah overstayers from poorer Muslim nations, especially African.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Ooof hated the stupid paki begging women when i went on umrah! All in fancy clothes and jewelrry asking me for money, then cursing me behind my back when i walked off. Tramps like them who arer lingering around there are really giving pakis a bad name. I bet their husbands worked there fingers to the bone, cleaning the mosques just to fiance their annoying wives. Really those cleaners were always friendly, shame about their stupid wives.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

The difference is that while PAK is also corrupt on many levels, no one outside of PAk is defending Pak. Pakistan generally gets the boot, while Saudis are showered with garlands.

As far the prayer issue. This is your interpretation and is irrelevant beyond that.

The Saudis may be praying, but thats the only Islamic thing about them. As far as most people are concerned, you can pray all you want, but all that is irrelevant when your society is racist, injust and hypocritical.

Islam is more then just praying, its about justice. Something that is often lacking in Saudi. Just because they pray means nothing.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Ofcourse anyone who can afford it can have a five star Hajj. Thats not the issue.
But Hajj was supposed to be the great equalizer. Your not supposed to have exhibitions of wealth on Hajj. We all wear the same clothes, shave our heads etc because we want to appear as equals as God intended.

While you cant always prevent people from exhibiting such wealth, the Saudis should at the very least, not be facilitating this rich and poor divide, by creating places for the wealthy to exhibit their wealth.

If they want to make trains, then that fine, but make sure that all are able to afford these trains. If your going to make a hotel (even THIS hideous one), then make sure all can afford it.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

The post is refering to specific individuals who really do seem to drual over these Saudis for whatever reason.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

The other question is this. Who gave the Saudis the license to do as they like in Mecca or Madina? Islam isnt the sole property of the Saudis, so its beyond me why all Saudi actions in mecca are beyond criticism.

At the very least, if you dont want to criticize them, they shouldn't be defended.

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

...

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

Mod deleted my post with valid point since the thread header uses the word 'Vendetta' which opens the window for 'Personal grudge with some one or evidential matter provided to make it specific' to prove his/her point.
We at GS are not stupid to let such stirring crap to go unnoticed since 2002 and before.

I'm not very happy with your scanning skills Mr. MOD perhaps you may need an extra tutorial . "sigh"

Re: Our Saudi Vendetta!?!?!

This thread is nothing more than another feed to the garbage bins!

Hearing from ^ my countrymen Pakistanis as to How People of Saudi Arabia should conduct their affairs is not only laughable but ' Sharam-naak hypocrisy '

Oh bhaiyoo ! Jao pehlay appnay bijli, paani, atta cheeni aur law and order ki fiker kero,,,, Jews or Saudis say baad me neput lenna !!!