Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

@uberalles

I do not know if you ever realized but you are a miserable debtor, your fellow brotherns probably cursing you for making such a weak arguments and letting us expose your people's doctrine believes (religion rejectors)! It is funny that uberalles wants an unorganized religion, LMAO! Whoever believes in such non-sense must be on drugs!


Was an Islamic state established in any of these countries? The answer is no; therefore Islam and Islamic Shariah had not been established as a divine law to run a country.

the problem lies within your narrow minded & unintellectual thinking, and lack of sound knowledge etc.


I laugh at the pitiful lost souls (religion rejectors), who brag about sound reasoning, logic, and rationality all the time but when it comes to them, they do not know what to say. They miserably fail to realize very simple and straight forward facts! According to your non-sense logic, even an atheist mass murderer, rapist, thieve etc is inspired by religion and its teachings. Someone here lacks common sense and needs some history lessons!

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Peace Uberalles

The point of Iconoclast’s data was to demonstrate that it is a norm in enlightened countries such as America for people known in legal terms as ‘girls’ to have consented sex before the age of legal adulthood.

The STD data was a side issue; now you have responded with another piece of data about STD growth in Saudi. No doubt most of that growth is due to Saudi students travelling to more ‘morally degraded societies’. Trust me I know what goes on. The reality is that even in today’s society around the whole world there are people engaging in sexual relations with consent that are below the ‘legal’ age or considered by your standards as children.

Until you shift your understanding of what is or is not considered a child only then can you progress your understanding of the beauty of Islam. Rather you fail to realise that these people who engage in sex have no legal ties with each other. They can but come to bed and leave and women often want to develop relationships and settle with their male sexual partners but the system allows men to continue on their sexual liberated activities without any committment binding them.

Islam only allows sex to be undertaken within the confines of a marriage and marriage can only take place with the consent of both parties - wife and husband.

I defend the right of that woman who after reaching maturity WANTS to get married, but I do not defend her right to have sex outside marriage even if she is 20 years old, because that action will not protect her. At least a husband takes care of his wife’s needs.

The system you are backing turns a blind eye to adultery and fornication but focusses on age only. There are places in the UK where low class white girls that I know of have had sex and continue to do so with their teenage boyfriends from the ages of 8 and 9. Of course this is terrible because the society allows such freedom but at the same time it is an injustice to have a society that promotes sex so much but punishes people from getting married at those very ages that they begin to start having sex.

Places like Pakistan, however, are twisted for other reasons there is no security there. Young children will not have consented sex with one another like in these societies but rather they will stay blissfully ignorant of this until a ‘badmash’ comes in and does ‘rape’. This however, should not be equated with a man legally getting married to woman much younger than himself, because she should be doing it through acceptable methods. If however, it is seen that money is being exchanged or the girl is not approving the marriage then Islam is first to prevent such a marriage we do not need the likes of pro-Western pseudo-rights activists to tell us this is wrong.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

How old was he? I think the prophet was a lot lot older than the girl he married. BTW I was only correcting your mistatement about what a pedophile is, not really interested in whether he was a pedophile or not.

Again you are looking at only one side. Early childhood marriages were the norm in all societies until a 150 years ago or so , but the boy and girl were both young, typically in early teens. You'd call that an arrangement by the families, may be some puppy love. It becomes pedophelia only if one of the parties is a grown up adult and the other is not

You have to distinguish between exploitation and 'working'.

Not so, fortunately.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

How do you know that Prophet (SAW) was a lot lot older than Aisha (ra)?

Your definition of a pedophile is totally wrong.


*

Wrong

Any evidence to support your explanation?

What if your daughter who's 9 years old(physically and mentally able to married) and she wants to get married to a 45 or 50 years old man (may be Sean Connery or Alan Sugar) and the state allows you to do that, would you let your daughter let married that person?

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

You have to distinguish between exploitation and 'working'

What do you mean?

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Peace All

How about if the man is 25 and the woman is 13 the difference is 12 years. What if there is another case where the man is 55 and the woman is 20? Are they both classed as per this disorder?

Paedophile def.

a) They will have a psychosis behind an urge to find under developed (premature) females sexually attractive
b) They know it is perversion and the idea thrills them
c) They do not marry their victims, most rape and/or murder
d) They do not ask for consent of the parents to become their legal partners
e) They play on the innocence of the victims, i.e. curiosity of children is used against them.
f) They lose interest in their victims when those children become mature
g) They do not limit their activities to one person through devotion such as that of a spouse.

Marriage is a legal binding, the Islamic law makes the marriage of a mature female legal and permissible for any mature male so long as they are both consenting and follow the same values. It is a battle of laws ... the current wave of legal definition contradicts nature and oppresses people in their sexual needs to an age which is much higher than their physical start points. It encourages stretched youth and reduces the adopting of responsibility.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Peace Missus

It is a red-herring comment ... What has exploitation to do with it? Our definition of exploitation falls short of exploiting humanity in general. We want to exploit whole countires and put them in debt but when it comes to their children who are possibly their only source of income we choose to stop such businesses. Why? Because the children who are employable and skilled have been told to stop working. In addition to this ... if the argument is that children are given low incomes then that is due to inflation and national problems anyway. What we want to do is prevent a country from making it into the self-sufficient arena. We want them to be entirely dependent on Western economy. China have broken out by 'exploiting' everyone. Now they are becoming a strong economy. We can't let places like India and Pakistan do the same their child population is lot greater by proportion and that could have unsettling effects to our Western economies.

Just like one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, we have our dear employee on one hand and his exploited slave on the other.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

what happened to all the haters; they suddenly vanished in thin air. I'm sure uberalles is probably busy submitting her article to one of the Islamic haters' website titled: "Why I left Islam?"

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Most countries have Child labor and minimum marriage age tests. These are introduced by some very wise people for good reason.

Banning chikd labor and introducing compulsory schooling are necessary for removal of poverty in the long term but do subject a strata of poor familes to additional trouble. Therefore for these laws to work and be fair, these should and are usually clubbed with some sort of financial assistance.

Child marriage is no longer a norm and I'd think is an exception, whether you're a orthodox jew or muslim. The cases of 9 year olds being forced to wed middle-aged man is no longer a fact - I don't think and I hope not.

Whether it was so practiced in the 6th century is immaterial.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Preach it to the muslim man who subjugates , honor kills , suppresses and islamic countries like saudi arabia who live by the Quran --- the most pious of the muslims committ heinous mysogynistic actions against women.

Hahahahahahaha, my emotional ranting???? joke

so don't refer to my emotional 'ranting' as if you can't even begin to understand what i am argueing for. It is so much easier for you to rehash and repeat dogma , do you deny the attrocities happen and that people have the right like me to loudly stand up and voice against it and to cast light on it. that's all everyone does is repeat dogma of quran while trying to ingnore the crap women put up in islamic communities. ----centuries of goodness??????? a joke right? tell it to the somali woman in somalia today ......... tell it to the muslim woman and child -the many who have suffered the goodness of beatings for supposedly disobedience, disrespect for their own free will , tell it to the muslim wife as they are cast aside for another woman, tell it to the little girl of child rape when eight year old girls get married off to old men , --oh the goodness that removes human rights, the goodness that is saudi arabia and its wahabist islamist idealogy, yes tell it it to the 80 to 90 percent of women suffering or have experienced domestic violence in pakistan at the hands of man. seems all the goodness has gone to aid the muslim man's insecurities, lack of confidence and lack of manly spine in treating a woman as a total equal without indoctrinating that it's allah's will woman be obedient to man.

Islam preaches all this good stuff , well why do women under islam suffer so greatly , Is it only culture. or does one aid the other in order to maintain patriarchal domination.

yes, i will rant. I will be emotional. cause how can you not be emotional when you see some of the horrendous crap done to women in the name of islam. tackle those issues instead of reciting indoctrination. Expand your social awareness . read about violence against women in islam . And then if you have a daughter fight against the violence and ill treatment of children otherwise you might just find your child married to a troglodyte islamofascist of lives in 1400 years old mentality instead of the 21st century where human rights and child rights are to be promoted and fought for over any relgious dogma witten by some man .

how about violence against women in general? how about violence against children and child labor in general with no religious association, forget judeo-christian-islamic background of woman or child. just go put some dollars toward establishing a safe house for the victimes of domestic violence.
Be honest and realize you are aware heinous practices occur in the name of allah and islam by men. then go out and preach against these acts to men and make sure men in your community are not allowed to get away with it, cultural or religion it does not matter. Instead of deflecting the problems which are inherit by obfuscating the obvious throught repetative indoctrination all is good within islam. As the world sees, it is obviously not.

Violence against women, violence against children, trafficking of women and children, sexual abuse of women and children , does not matter which faith the person lives under if the godly perpertrators continue the practice .

A woman is equal to man, and derserves education before marriage institution. A woman has free will, a woman must be nourished like a boy child to have confidence , to be strong , to posess a spine and to grow up to the self reliant and self assured without having to get married because otherwise she is a 'nothing' and her livelyhood depends on a husband. Christian beliefs in the west supported much which was mysogynistic against the women , they supported the cultural practice of mysogyny and cultural practice relied on biblical verses. Well , the suffragetes changed all that , and from the day the woman got the right to vote in the west, they progressed forward and made domestic violence a legal crime and demanded fair rights to education and fair rights to career pursuits and opportunity. It is beginning now within Islam --- call it islamic suffragetes.

Just to let you know, there are many more of use growing up each and every day with knowledge that we can be more then what a man tells us to be.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

So you are saying that the Prophet (SAW) was not a lot older than Aisha(ra)

Hell No. I would never allow my daughter to marry a 50 year old person. Maybe you would..
I would never allow my daughter to marry even Bill G...

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Perhaps in your intense hate towards Islam, you beleive that crimes against women and children occur bcoz of Islam. YOU be honest to yourself and read along what is happening in christian societies.

The above is qoute from http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/

Needless to mention what happens in Africa.

Now use some neurons in your head, if your argument that Islam is responsible for these crimes then these crimes shud not be so rampant in non-muslim communities.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

You must ask that question to yourself. If you know the answer, then why are you still a "muslim woman"?

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

[QUOTE]

What if your daughter who's 9 years old(physically and mentally able to married) and she wants to get married to a 45 or 50 years old man (may be Sean Connery or Alan Sugar) and the state allows you to do that, would you let your daughter let married that person?

[/QUOTE]

No 9 year old is mentally ready for marriage. Were you?

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Peace ummm

The question to ask is why SAY you are a Muslim woman when you repeatedly use the current norms as a basis for right and wrong and in addition slander Islam based on the actions of a few Muslims, who are generally ignorant today.

In addition to this ... you should ask her why she thinks that Muslim women have a harder time than the western women. Rather it is western woman who is battling for her rights, this means it is the western woman who is unhappy.

A couple in the UK are breaking up after a long relationship. They were both contributing 50:50 to the rent, but the man was earning a lot more than his girlfriend. That is simply unfair. The woman should not have to pay anything towards the rent in Islam as she is the dependent. Even if she did pay towards it, it would have been better that they split the rent up by proportion of earning power. But most women not only have to work but also are left to do most of the house work and raise the children more than the men.

In the western society it is not a norm for a man to show his feelings towards his children, this is unfair to them and to himself. In Islamic society men can hug each other without being branded 'homosexual'.

If Islam is done right, then the useless system in the western society which is geared towards making women feel comfortable in their sexual identity rather than intellectual one is also not fair. Uberalles needs to understand that and so do you.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

No, I'm not saying that.
Now please answer, how do you know that Prophet (SAW) was a lot older than Aisha(ra) at the time of their marriage that was done with Aisha (ra)'s consent?

Why not?

Yes, Islamically i'll have to allow her to marry with her choice when she becomes an adult and ready for marriage (she's reached the age of puberty and able to make right decisions).

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

Some 9 year old girls are ready for marriage, I wasn't but I started thinking about having a family of my own (a husband and children) after the age of 9.
I wanted to get married at the age of 13 after my mother passed away.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

One of the biggest weapons that any non believer has against islam is "oh your prophet was a paedo he married a 9 year old"! this is a clearly lack of knowledge and understanding! when i was in high school which was quite a while back now! girls and boys for that matter would go through puberty much later than they are going throgh puberty now! kids are at it aged 11 for gods sake! anyway heres an article that i think is relevant to this question! it is from a website called: islams green dot com
How do you explain the marriage of Prophet Mohammed to Aisha when she was six, and it’s consummation at nine?

I wanted to start with an answer that Mujahid from Kings College, Guys Campus gave. It went something like this:
Mujahid: "What you say about some one who married or had sexual intercourse with a sixteen year old girl who had not yet reached maturity/puberty?”

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

9 year olds don't have the mental maturity to marry. Nor do 13-year olds.

Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]

she calls our prophet (saw) fart (Tauba Tauba), a pedophilia and yet claims to be a enlightened muslima! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

As far as I know, Aicha had the choice to say no, she was not forced...Who would say No to God's Prophet?...Would you? Please don't call yourself a enlightened, modern, educated muslima. Doesn't fit to your attitude.