All i am saying in countries where women are suppressed, ie many muslim countries muslim men force women to wear veil, burqa , etc as its a cultural not a religious thing to wear. And when a muslim women who has been raped seeks help they are shunned from their islamic community or worse. ., Therefore, what happened to these women after they were raped. How many have been disowned, or killed by the male family members to restore the family honor. As honor equates with hyman .
And when muslim men raped hindi or seek women how many suffered after the fact worse situations including death by family members. Great movie , Still Waters, does a good job of explaining what women of all these religions face.
The ones who did not die at the hands of the rapists suffered worse fates afterward.
, when a sicko wants to rape he will rape a infant, child, woman , even sheep or camel and what a woman chooses to wear is irrelevant..
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^^**There seems to be a very fine line between the 2 and most people nowadays cannot even distinguish the difference.
A good example I can think of is marriage. Islamically, when we are searching for our future spouse, the first criteria we must look for is their deen. Now come on, realistically how often does that happen nowadays?
It's more like..."What is he studying" or "How much is he making" as opposed to "How many times a day does he pray" or "Does he recite the Quran on a regular basis."
Personally, I believe that a guy who loves his deen will love his wife.
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^^^^^are you in for a rude awakening about the man who prays five times aday. run baby run or read Hirsi Ali. You would sooner find kindness in an atheist then a onto the ground five times per day.
Even rapists and honor killers pray five times a day. Actually , the most pious are members of the family who will kill you if you come home raped. never heard of a daughter /sister/niece killer for the sake of restoring family honor who did not love his deen way too much
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^^^^^are you in for a rude awakening about the man who prays five times aday. run baby run or read Hirsi Ali. You would sooner find kindness in an atheist then a onto the ground five times per day.
** Even rapists and honor killers pray five times a day. Actually , the most pious are members of the family who will kill you if you come home raped.** never heard of a daughter /sister/niece killer for the sake of restoring family honor who did not love his deen way too much
Just your opinion and view. I've already confronted you about Hirsi before, yet you keep wanting to endorse her as a role model for Muslim women. She's not a MUSLIM! she denounced islam and takes every potshot she can at it. And you know what else? She's a self-proclaimed Atheist!....as in No Believe No God! She may be your role model, but that's another story.
Those 'headbangers' know more about Islam than you ever will. So how about starting to practice the religion first before passing judgements on it, or else you're just like any other hypocrite who doesn't belong to the faith, doesn't practice the faith, yet finds all faults in it.
People that committ heinous acts such as murder are a result of the their surroundings, it's a social mindset. Not religious. Just because someone decides to use religion as their shield does not mean it is the Religion that is at fault.
btw, do you have anything to backup the bolded part, or do you just like to play pencil pusher for Anti-Muslim propaganda? Please don't quote isolated incidents, show me where rapists are more likely to be from a pious family!.....i'll patiently wait for it. :)
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
[quote]
Just your opinion and view. I've already confronted you about Hirsi before, yet you keep wanting to endorse her as a role model for Muslim women. She's not a MUSLIM!** she denounced islam** and takes every potshot she can at it. And you know what else? She's a** self-proclaimed Atheist!....**as in No Believe No God! She may be your role model, but that's another story
[/quote]
that makes here even better role model for muslim women. :p
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
[QUOTE]
Those 'headbangers' know more about Islam than you ever will. So how about starting to practice the religion first before passing judgements on it, or else you're just like any other hypocrite who doesn't belong to the faith, doesn't practice the faith, yet finds all faults in it.
People that committ heinous acts such as murder are a result of the their surroundings, it's a social mindset. Not religious. Just because someone decides to use religion as their shield does not mean it is the Religion that is at fault.
[/QUOTE]
u are proving uber alles' point. religiousness has got nothing to do with how good a person is!
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
u are proving uber alles' point. religiousness has got nothing to do with how good a person is!
no...uberalles isn't just saying that religious muslims can be horrible people. rather, she seems to be pushing the idea that these people do horrible things because they follow islam...which isn't surprising coming from someone who idolizes a rabid, islam-hating demagogue like hirsi ali.
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
It is difficult for me to believe that things like honor killings and punishment of rape victims could have been sanctioned or required by any religion. That is why I was trying to find the distinction between religious requirement and cultural or traditional requirement.
Blood is thicker than water, regardless of religion. If it comes to it 99.9999% of people with some exposure to the world outside of their local community will go with protecting their sister or daughter come what may, rather than cause her harm. Regardless of whether their religion requires it or sanctions it.
It will be very sad indeed if the statistics of honor killings etc is anything more than that. But I don't think so since that there is some basic goodness, even in most brainwashed people who live in a family.
I think it is easier for a teen to decide to become a misguided hsuicide bomber than to decide to harm his own sister because she chose to marry someone or was victimized by someone.
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^^^^^are you in for a rude awakening about the man who prays five times aday. run baby run or read Hirsi Ali. You would sooner find kindness in an atheist then a onto the ground five times per day.
Even rapists and honor killers pray five times a day. Actually , the most pious are members of the family who will kill you if you come home raped. never heard of a daughter /sister/niece killer for the sake of restoring family honor who did not love his deen way too much
First paragraph should read in red: then a muslim male who prays fives per day .
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
Hirsi Ali was raised muslim . Born in Somalia, lived in Kenya and Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia. She has seen , experienced and witnessed how muslim life is for many women and how islam is used to suppress a woman’s freedoms, thoughts, expression and her basic human rights. Hirsi ALi is a female, lived like a muslim and questioned the veracity and the hatred she experienced and saw within her faith. She studied, observed , even as a young teenager became pious and fully committed to know more about Islam including dressing modestly and wearing the long robes and hijab all in black. She even studied with muslim brotherhood. Seems all she learned was everything was woman’s fault, even when a male raped her and lots of preaching about staying away from jews and christians as they are evil etc etc. which we all know is absolute drivel.
but No matter how hard she tried she saw the evil manifestations and mysogyny many muslims committed against each other including to their women. SHe questioned muslim teachings and practices as it pertained to women and women’s rights and for that she received death threats. she is a learned and studied woman who knows from first hand experience what difficulty many islamic women face in muslim countries . She questioned male domination , and the total submission Islam commands and how it abhors intelligent people who have constructive criticisms and questions some of the teachings. It is from man’s hand Quran written, hadiths written and sunnahs. Therefore , the question of purity as its prescribed in Islam and total submission must be questioned.
Yes , Hirsi Ali, Irshand Manji have every right to question as they have lived it, seen it and studied islam. They are right to question , question it all. God fears not questions but its seems the humans particually the male religious bastion who seek to control and dominated a populace have more fear of an educated female questioning a woman’s life in islam then they fear Allah.
makes you wonder like it did for Hirsi Ali about the veracity of it all , which in turn requires questioning why, why , why ??
Study Hirsi Ali , read her books with an open mind and you will see that anything she has written is based on reality and truths which did happen and which are well documented and total submission is for those who do not question. Those head bangers as you stated , really know more. Huh!!! ask them about Socrates, Voltaire, Moby Dick, Confuscious , Milton, Descartes, Freud , Copernicus, DaVinci, Magellan, Shakespeare, human rights , civil rights and pluralistic ideals for a democratic society. Obviously, it will be like talking to the wall.
As for you last paragraph, , all of the are muslim males and not refuseniks, they still believe and practice. Ask the women of Somalia teggy, if you truly have a hard time understanding.
Here Teggy for you:In Australia, a Muslim man who raped a Muslim woman as “punishment” for reading the Bible has been sentenced to five years. This sexual attack follows in the wake of others in Australia by mostly immigrant Islamic men against Western women for religious or ethnic reasons. With many cases or rape, particularly gang rape, in Australia, France, Sweden, and Norway, some cite this as a growing epedimic that the media has left for the most part unreported.
Abdul Reda Al-Shawany ,age 52, raped the unidentified Muslim woman as “punishment” for her reading the Bible. The Campbelltown District Court in Sydney heard how Abdula Reda Al Shawany sexually assaulted the woman, who was a practicing Muslim herself, and then said to her, “Let your Jesus help you.”
The AAP reports that as was sentenced, the Downing Centre District Court heard a harrowing statement from the victim, revealing that her shame and fear had been compounded by her cultural background. The woman, who cannot be named, arrived in Australia as a refugee from Iraq. But she said that even when she was jailed by dictator Saddam Hussein, she never feared for her life the way she did after the rape. “It is better if I’m dead,” she told the court.
The Daily Telegraph reports](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21567726-2,00.html)** that when the woman **** came to Australia **** from the Middle East she began listening to christian**** teachers and reading the Bible. The woman**** - who wears the Muslim hijab - had received threats from members of her faith for reading the Bible but had not converted to Christianity.** Al Shawany lured her to a Warwick Farm railway station in September 2002 after he told her he had some mail for her from overseas.
Per the AAP, the court was told that Al-Shawany’ visited the woman, an acquaintance, at Sydney’s Villawood Detention Centre with another man. The woman had been reading the Bible and Al-Shawany noted her contact with Christians. The men told her they were “infidel people” and if she went with them, her killing “would be halal” - meaning her killer would go to heaven.
The issue at the end of the day is muslim women who are raped have been shunned or worse killed off by the male members of their family.
And no matter how much you question my practice it does not change the facts nor does it dispute the fact regarding the suffering a muslim woman goes through in an islamic country.
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
Read the name of the thread
I know Zuma is a pig and corrupt. but its more about africa then christianity.
It has nothing to do with christianity but the stupidity which permeates south african people who believe raping a virgin cures them off aids.
I suggest you study this phenomena as it has left many hundreds babies raped.
It's africa after all and further proof how religion keeps many people in the state of social and intellectual ignorance like the christians who preach abstinence and no condoms. sex education must prevail, condom use must prevail and not religious dogma.
Do you have any idea of the aids crisis in africa? in both islamic and christian communities?? religion isn't saving them , lack of education and knowledge is killing them
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
that makes here even better role model for muslim women. :p
I know plenty of muslim sisters who were not aware of Hirsi Ali until I gave them her book to read. I know of a couple of young ladies who once also lived in somalia and got lucky and moved to the west. They know exactly what Hirsi Ali wrote in her book, Infidel, is very much what is the trouble in islamic communities and countries.
As a muslim woman i have seen the aid and help organizations give to women who have been treated savagely. You may argue its cultural. But ask yourself why does it seem overwhelmingly high women in islamic countries suffer in greater numbers then women in secular societies?
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^
Annectodal evidence is not evidence at all. Wherever there are insular cultures, the cases of abuse are hidden, and so estimations are almost always exaggerated in an attempt to compensate.
And no, dear, that is not to say that abuse does not happen...but the comparison with secular societies is a bit laughable, as there are other non-Muslim societies in Africa, Eastern Europe, where women are treated worse than animals...by SOME. And, like Muslim societies, no one is doing a thing about it...why? Because doing "something" is a function of societal organization, and sense of civic responsibility, and a functioning legal and policing framework...not to mention a culture that can take on such issues without taking a fatally self-deprecating tone...oh...but by all means, blame religion.
If indeed religion is the opiate of the masses, it seems like the only people getting high on it (to the extent of it causing near brain death) are those who have a bone to pick with it...
I know plenty more Muslim sisters, may of whom are Somali, who thinks the conclusions made by Hirsi Ali are lunatic and shrill. Where does that leave us?
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
I know plenty more Muslim sisters, may of whom are Somali, who thinks the conclusions made by Hirsi Ali are lunatic and shrill.
As do most non-Islamophobic non-Muslims.
Uberalles, I have a question for you. If you really do consider someone like Hirsi Ali a rolemodel...why do you still call yourself Muslim? I'm not encouraging you to apostate yourself, but if you put so much faith in what Hirsi Ali says, you have to realize that most of her rhetoric (the Prophet was a "pervert" and "Islam must be defeated" etc) is fundamentally incompatible with Islam.
Re: Muslim attitudes towards rape [split: Muslim Women Gang Raped.. ]
^
Annectodal evidence is not evidence at all. Wherever there are insular cultures, the cases of abuse are hidden, and so estimations are almost always exaggerated in an attempt to compensate.
And no, dear, that is not to say that abuse does not happen...but the comparison with secular societies is a bit laughable, as there are other non-Muslim societies in Africa, Eastern Europe, where women are treated worse than animals...by SOME. And, like Muslim societies, no one is doing a thing about it...why? Because doing "something" is a function of societal organization, and sense of civic responsibility, and a functioning legal and policing framework...not to mention a culture that can take on such issues without taking a fatally self-deprecating tone...oh...but by all means, blame religion.
If indeed religion is the opiate of the masses, it seems like the only people getting high on it (to the extent of it causing near brain death) are those who have a bone to pick with it...
I know plenty more Muslim sisters, may of whom are Somali, who thinks the conclusions made by Hirsi Ali are lunatic and shrill. Where does that leave us?
Yes, I agree some women do, but these women are usually not that well informed or knowledgeable or are too afraid because of their religious upbringing to do any more then react against instead of questioning if there is merit. Some women sadly even say its the will of Allah , to be obedient and do without question as paradise awaits. sad thinking really. live miserably as its the islamic way , be happy when dead. I guess religion is truly to make the sufferers stay in their place and not question why they can't have more ---- a useful power tool over the meak and meak afterall. I believe this is religions mandate the more I study.