Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

Sorry to say U are wrong. WE are completely on agreement on this issue. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones in the name of anything.

Both sides of borders are affected by the name of religion and casteism too but with a difference. And superiority is out of question.

Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

that is the million dollar point…do we have any hope left? who will take actions?

are we going to take out blasphemy laws from our constitution or not?

there is an organized genocide happening in pakistan against minorities..first we killed, kidnapped and tortured thousands of Hindus in sindh…their daughters were kidnapped and were forced to accept islam … majority of them left for india..

then we started to kill ahmadis, then hazara shias, then shias in Karachi, now Christians…where will it stop! it is obvious that Pakistani state has failed to fulfill its responsibility…

is UN going to take any action?

bottom-line: unless Pakistani state phases out blasphemy laws from its constitution, the civilized world should consider putting strict economic sanctions on pakistan

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Mere bhai, U heard it right, there is no blasphemy concept in Hinduism. Its only due to muslims in India that hindus have educated themselves in this regard, and started behaving like muslims. ie whoever says something about ur religion or idols, go berserk.

Yes I say that blasphemy laws in India is to appease minorities. Having said that, its not so that these laws are applicable to non-muslims only. Hussain made nude paintings of hindu gods and hindus started crying foul, Deepa Mehta is not living in exile. There were problems when she was shooting her film Water in Benaras when some hindu morons tried to disrupt the shooting. Than it was MP chief minister Digvijay Singh who invited her to MP and assured her full security. And the film was shot there and relesed.

Had hindu been so sensitive on issues like this one, than India would have burned when Asaduddin Owaise crossed all limits in insulting Rama and his mother, using the most filthy language. Crowd cheered him. But nothing happened.

So if I use the word stupid for Asaddudin and Praveen Togadias, do I make some kind of mistake? ur take?

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

can you give me a link ...where he used that filthy language?

i just want to see which kind of language used by Akbaruddin owaisi...

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Brother I m not good as U guys are in searching for the links. But have U heard his infamous speech? if U have than U need not ask this, if U havent, than plz do it and tell me whether the language he used is filthy or not? And also let me know whether he did something wrong or not.

Peace.

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

same language used by Pravin Togadia against Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).....

and no agitation from muslims....

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Okay, gazab ka jawab dete hain aap ninja sahib. Shabash.

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

What was his speech about?

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

He was narrating a hadith in which someone asked the holy prophet about his (the holy prophet's) father being in hell or heaven, he replied that he is in hell coz he was not a muslim. Can U confirm whether there is any such hadith or not? plz?

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

topic of his speech was role and position of muslims in hindu india…

he quoted some hadith i dont know weather it was valid or not…

watch from 10.00

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Aap bhi to muslim hain aap dhund lein :D

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Ji main dhoondh sakta tha. Magar kyonki main dimaghi tawazan kho chuke logo ke bato ko ziadah seriously nahin leta, is wajah se nahin dhoondhi.

Magar jab baat chali to maine socha ki apne muslim bhai se kuch kaam liya jaye, is wajah se pooch liya.

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

I have never heard of any hadith like this. He should have given reference of the hadith if he had it. Islam gives benefit of doubt to those people where Islam has not made any inroads.

Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

with a difference? what are those differences? aren't their enough fanatics (backed by government agencies) in both countries to exploit people's emotion leading to such incidents. Now don't alaap that Indian society condemn and learn from such incidents, whereas all the Pakistani are happy for these incidents in their country because some factors ( for you its religion) which has made them blind.

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Go ahead.. Point was, your not exactly in a position to criticize either. I dont really know what your so proud off, to be honest, Indias human rights record isnt all that great. Better for you guys to not comment on this thread, i think you have had your fill of pointing fingers. Raj, you need to learn that sometimes its just good manners for Indians to not comment on Pakistani issues, just as you would expect Pakistanis to not comment on Indian ones.

Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

i think india-pak debate is good from perspective standpoint but i try to stay away from it..it never gets to something positive in the end...never

i want to know from everyone what is the solution to the violence problems against minorities in Pakistan? that is all i care about..what happens in India is irrelevant to my problem unless there is something good that we can take and apply to solve our problem....

**so again, i want to know from everyone what is the solution to the violence problems against minorities and escalation in radicalization in Pakistan? **our state has miserably failed..our politicians have failed..our police, agencies and army everyone has failed...our courts have failed in prosecuting anyone....

are we just going to let them die?

do we need blasphemy laws?

do we need federal shria courts?

do we need to make changes to our constitution?

which political party has legitimate will to make Pakistan a tolerant country? i did not use the word secular cuz many posters will have an ideological diarrhea..so lets use word tolerant....

is it time for UN to intervene?

You think things are beyond our control and rest of the world should impose some trade sanctions on us unless we makes changes to our constitution and blasphemy laws?

but can we please debate on these issues...i know most of you are extremely smart...so hope you guys will reflect your opinion...

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

another moving piece…Dawn always makes me proud of pakistan…complete freedom in expressing any idea

Three and a half Ahmadis and a Shia | Blog | DAWN.COM

Three and a half Ahmadis and a Shia Tahir Mehdi | 5 hours ago

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http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/290x230-minorities-in-pakistan.jpg?w=670

-Illustration by Faraz Aamer Khan.

My family moved to Lahore in early 1970s. We rented the lower portion of a house in what was still called Kirshan Nagar, despite being renamed Islampura, probably after the 1965 war. It was an old style house with an open central courtyard. There were two front rooms both having an opening onto the street. The owners lived in the upper portion but they purposefully kept one of those front rooms. They would hold a weekly religious gathering in that baithak.
I was a school going kid then. I probably would have never known what faith this family followed, if there hadn’t been a weekly ijtema in that room. The gathering itself did not arouse any interest in me, as I belonged to a Shia family, similar gatherings were part of my sub-culture too. I was actually attracted to the projector that they used to show certain films. I can now guess that those must be of one of their religious leaders.
My fascination was reserved for that buzzing machine and my inquiry from an elder about that machine and those films and gatherings helped me know, and remember, that they believed in some different faith. I recall no other difference reflecting in the interaction of our two families. We would meet like good neighbours do, and exchange usual pleasantries. If one of us occasionally cooked something special, we would share a bowl full with the other, the aroma of which we could not avoid sharing anyway, living so close to each other.
There was an Imambargah in the street behind ours and a big Sunni mosque at the end of this long lane. It may not be all that perfect at that time but frankly my only childhood experiences of religious intolerance are limited to a few school scuffles where a bully would accuse me of doing some nasty things as a Shia, which nobody believed to be true.
So the first Ahmadi I ever met was a regular guy from next door. I had no reason to hate him or for even respond to him differently in any way. We left that house in June 1973. The second amendment to the constitution, declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslims, was passed later in 1974.
I joined an arts college in Lahore in the early 1980s. I used to live in the college hostel. It was a no-holds-barred life filled with non-stop fun. It took our batch just a few weeks to gel together. We did crazy things that would stretch our relationships to unimaginable extremes.
We developed very deep and close friendships. Day-scholars, our class fellows from Lahore and those not living in the hostel, would miss on that closeness. They were kind of outsiders for us, they were mommy’s little children, the kind who are told to be home before dark. They were treated by the close in-groups of hostelites as aliens.
There was, however, one day-scholar in my class who probably thought ‘why should hostelites have all the fun?’ He would hang around, drop in and frequently stay overnight. I was friends with this bright and jolly young man and we spent a lot of time together working jointly on many art projects and discussing everything under the sun.
Once we were going somewhere together. His house fell in our way and he wanted to briefly stop over for something. I thought I would have a glass of water and wait in his baithak till he is free. To my utter surprise he hesitated allowing me inside his home. I was a bit disturbed but then pushed my way in, as would a close friend.
As I sipped the juice and looked around the room, I saw the reason for his hesitation hung on the wall. But why would he hide it from a close friend with whom he has shared so much. When he entered the room, I was standing in front of that picture. Are you an Ahmadi? I asked. Yes, he said with his head hanging down. The picture was of one of their religious leaders.
He was not feeling guilty for who he was but was ashamed that he had to hide his religious identity from a close friend. I also felt betrayed but would empathise with his position as well. We remained together till late that evening but did not talk to each other. We were arguing with ourselves. Is he afraid of me? Does he think I can harm him?
He was the second Ahmadi in my life. I met him a decade after the passage of that constitutional amendment and at the time when General Zia and his Jamaat-i-Islami enacted anti-Ahmadi laws. Unlike the first Ahmadi, whom I had met in my childhood, my friend was not a regular young man though he tried desperately to act as a ‘normal’ person of the same society.
After my college, I briefly engaged with a designing and publishing business, setting up a joint venture with some friends in Lahore around the early 1990s. One of my ‘clients’ was the student union of a university that was friends with me since my college days. I helped them put together their quarterly magazine.
The politics in this campus was quite different from what it used to be in my arts college. The student leaders here held guns and firing incidents between them and their rival, Jamiat Tulaba-i-Islam, was a matter of routine. Each of the many hostel buildings ‘belonged’ to one of the parties or some of its faction and was treated as their fort. I was once caught in a cross fire when Jamiat tried to ‘win back’ a hostel that used to belong to them but was later captured by their rival liberal party.
I was in contact with the entire hierarchy of that student party but certainly more with those involved in the magazine. The party could in fact be divided into two sub-groups, one was gun-loving and trigger-happy and nursed a grudge against the Jamiat. They looked like a ‘highly inflammable’ gang of youth, the dousing effect was provided by the second group. That was the writing and intellectual side which hated Jamiat for its obscurantist policies. I could not figure out whether they employed that gun-trotting group to protect themselves or if the gang roped these studious boys in to counter the Jamiat’s ideological side.
One day I was stopped at the campus gate and informed that the university had been closed down because a student scuffle had taken a life. I knew the backdoor ways well and also that no shut down applied on those well armed parties. I could not locate the person I intended to meet and went on to inquire from another. I was shocked to learn that he was the person who had been killed.
Why him? He was an unassuming, simple young man, a member of the editorial team, the one who looked after the poetry section, if I remember correctly. I could never know in my interactions that he was an Ahmadi, this secrecy had become a part of their sub-culture by now.
But the killers knew who he was.
This is how the story narrated by my other friends went. Jamiat wanted the campus to shut down. That was something that their elder party had instructed them to deliver to cater to some larger political end – maybe a message that the law and order situation in the provincial capital has gone from bad to worse. Jamiat’s position inside the campus, however, was precarious at that point in time. The gang-war was poised evenly and Jamiat’s own calculations did not require it to go for a kill. In fact, they apprehended a strong backlash and loss of territory in case of launching an offense. Blood on the campus walls was the time-tested way to ensure a shut down but how to manage it without inciting a furious response from the other party? Simple. Slay an Ahmadi.
Nobody will come to defend him. No gunman will return fire. Nobody will take out a protest rally. No official condolences.
That’s exactly what had happened.
That bright young poet was the third Ahmadi in my life. All those discriminatory laws by now had ‘settled in’. The legal infrastructure had built the capacity to facilitate parties to exploit these laws to their fullest potential. The society had internalised the new narrative too. It had become a seamless part of our culture that reflected in our default behaviors towards the people with a faith that is different from ours.
I haven’t met an Ahmadi since the past decade. I know of a few but we don’t meet. They have cocooned themselves inside their skins, hid their identities and barricaded their lives inside their homes. They have killed half of their beings. How can you befriend a person who is half dead?
I go past a graveyard daily on my way from home to the office. I noticed recently that its boundary walls have been raised and topped with thick spirals of barbed wires. An armed chowkidar now sits at the front gate – to protect the dead? I realise that this is an Ahmadi graveyard. Maybe my murdered friend was buried here and maybe his killers apprehend that he is still half alive.

[HR][/HR] *

http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/tahir-mehdi-80-2.jpg?w=670

The writer works with Punjab Lok Sujag, a research and advocacy group that has a primary interest in understanding governance and democracy*

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Dawn is an exceptional news paper wth some exceptional writers.

Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!

Med, I understand where you're coming from but I don't fully agree with telling the Indian posters to not comment on Pakistani issues. I know we're all saddened by this and a hundred other issues, emotions are running high, and so it hurts to see some people rubbing salt into the wounds. Lekin hamare apne he mulk k loonies toh logon ko moka dete hain na baatein karne ka. Yes, there are some people who absolutely detest Pakistan and they'll be dealt with adequately. But in general, I don't want to make non-Pakistanis feel unwelcome on GS. That's what makes us different from let's say an Indian forum that would ban you the minute they found out that you're a Pakistani. This has happened to a couple of my friends even though they were just talking about cricket on those forums lol not even sensitive political issues.

Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore

Sad Sad Sad. Thanks for those who has come out to support against this operation on our community. What really bothers me is that we are all Pakistanis regardless of our beliefs so why torch and burn our homes and villages. All it takes is one arrogant Muslim to "blame" it on us and our people go crazy.

To Indians: Keep your noses out of this, it is not like your hands are clean too. There are problems in our country we will enshalah deal with this.