Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!
Well with the standard of morality Indians hold themselves to, even one such incident in India should be equivalent to ten in Pakistan...
To say Pakistan has this many incidents, while India only has less then half of that number, doesn't really make you look all that much better does it?
No, frankly speaking we look as ugly as U guys do.
But ur one to ten analogy may bite the dust if we go into deep on minority treatment. should we?
Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!
But ur one to ten analogy may bite the dust if we go into deep on minority treatment. should we?
You must have forgotten Babri mosque riots, large scale killings of Sikhs after PM Gandhi assassination & and most recent mass murder Muslims in Gujarat. There has never been riots or killings of minorities in Pakistan on that scale.
Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!
You must have forgotten Babri mosque riots, large scale killings of Sikhs after PM Gandhi assassination & and most recent mass murder Muslims in Gujarat. There has never been riots or killings of minorities in Pakistan on that scale.
Havent forgotten anything. Sikhs in 1984, Babri in 1992, and Gujrat in 2002. All are fresh in mind like a fresh wound and still paining us. What U mean by killing of minorities in Pakistan? U urself bring such issues forward and earn our respect for that.
When we talk about minorities in Pakistan lets not calculate hindus or sikhs or christians among them. because U dont have to interact with them too often in ur daily lives. count the killings of shias and ahmadis instead, u will find ur numbers.
It may look blunt, but Pakistan cant even stop killings out of hatred when one Ummah is living together. This doesnt clean the blot on our faces which is there due to babri, sikh massacre and Gujrat, but this may help us in strengthening our resolve to wipe out religious hatred from India. We are working on that against all odds. U have any doubts? Plz raise it, I will try to address it.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Mera Bharata Mahaan :hbk:
Caste-related violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anti-Christian violence in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From 1964 to 1996, at least 38 incidents of violence against Christians were reported. In 1997, 24 such incidents were reported. Since 1998, Christians in India have faced a wave of violence.[SUP][5]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] In 1998 alone, 90 incidents were reported.[SUP][2]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
The Sangh Parivar and related organisations have stated that the violence is an expression of “spontaneous anger” of “vanvasis” against forcible conversion activities undertaken by missionaries,[SUP][2]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][6]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][7]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] a claim described as “absurd” and rejected by scholars.[SUP][2]](Violence against Christians in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
**
Everyone got its share of being ashamed. period.**
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
On the contrary, Lahore Govt. has been complicit in this whole unfortunate episode. Where was this alleged ‘government’ and the law enforcement apparatus when thousands of people were rioting and burning the houses in Joseph Colony? It was not exactly a flash mob. People knew the situation was volatile, even the family of the alleged “blasphemer” had themselves handed him over the police, and yet the government chose to do nothing to diffuse the situation or to protect the houses or the possessions of the Colony’s residents.
Also I think it’s quite insulting to term half a million rupees as a “generous” compensation to the victims of this atrocity. The lives of Joseph Colony’s residents have been forever scarred and they would likely be living under terror and fear for the rest of their lives. No financial compensation to people facing such predicament can ever be enough.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
How true, but why U are dancing on these stories???
If U watch carefully, than U have reports of upto 1998 only. Thats where we can say that results of right thinking Indians is bearing fruits. We dont refuse these unfortunate incidents took place. And we are ashamed that such things happened in India.
But look who is complaining violence due to conversion?
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
everyone knows who start dancing and claiming their superiority when such incidents happen.
open the link my dear brother! You will find condemnation from Pope:
**
On 12 October 2008, Pope Benedict XVI criticized the continuing Anti-Christian violence in India.
That was not for incidents happened in 1998 or before. It was for this:
**In August 2008, Swami Lakshmanananda, a Hindu monk and spiritual leader, was attacked and killed. The violence that followed resulted in the death of one Christian and two Hindus. The violence later spread to 300 villages in 14 of the 30 districts in the state, resulting in 4,400 burnt houses and 50,000 homeless. **Fifty-nine people were killed, while 18,000 were injured.
**
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
everyone knows who start dancing and claiming their superiority when such incidents happen
Yeah, and everyone sees that too. Cheers brother, at least we agree on one issue.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Yeah, and everyone sees that too. Cheers brother, at least we agree on one issue.
Sorry, we don't agree on this issue. Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones on the name of superiority. Both sides of the borders are equally affected by riots on the name of religion, casteism, etc and one who claims superiority of his side is probably is in hallucination state.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Well said. The trauma those guys have gone through wont go the rest of their lives.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Madness cannot be asnwered with madness.
Too many maindaks are tarraying and writing above kind of articles.
i know mods deleted my post in response to this post but i wonder why was this post not deleted....
calling well respected pakistani intellectuals "maindaks" is a shameful thing but diwana has no respect for anyone who does not follow his line of thoughts..
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
i just posted an article of mobariak haidar from dawn...where did it go? already removed?
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
i just posted an article of mobariak haidar from dawn...where did it go? already removed?
you posted it in 'gas pipeline' thread.
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
great article and some deep thoughts offered by intellectual mubarik haidar…when will all off this stop and who will stop this…who will save these poor minorities in pakistan..i suspect a genocide against them very soon..maybe time has come for international community to step up and ask pakistani govt to do its job, ban blasphemy laws or else be ready to face the consequences…
Where is the end? | Blog | DAWN.COM
Where is the end?
Mobarak Haider | 2 hours ago
5
http://s0.wp.com/wp-content/themes/vip/dawn/images/fb_share.png?m=1341287895g
http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/290-pakistan-terrorism.jpg?w=670
Kill more, burn more. Our capacity for suffering and chaos is immeasurable. Countless villainies go unchecked and unpunished. If you protest you face mass agitation. If you do not protest you face the bolder villain at your door. We must salute these brave Lions of the Arabian Desert, for they are our strategic assets, before we salute the Men at their best who keep these Lions for “peace”. Islam means peace, we are told.
The Christian agitation has started, which did not start over darker villainies like that of Gojra](http://archives.dawn.com/archives/35151). Allama Qadri has rushed back from Canada; the new situation seems quite promising for his mission. Imran Khan’s regiment is active against the very Taliban he sympathises with. A media house which consistently predicts the fall of democracy and tones down every act of the holy Lions has suddenly opened full fire on the Punjabi Taliban. The honorable CJ has also rolled his sleeves. The Lions and Eagles are not running away; they will hit harder as the situation ripens. The game seems to be up again. “No conspiracy theories, please” we are told by those who see no conspiracy in such weird emergencies, because conspiracy theories are their exclusive domain.
After Waziristan and Gojra, it was Taftan, Quetta and Karachi. Then, this week they blessed Badami Bagh](http://dawn.com/2013/03/09/mob-attacks-christian-neighbourhood-in-lahore/), Lahore. This time they covered walls with posters for days before they attacked; announcements were made in mosques that Christians will be slaughtered in the name of Allah, that their assets will be burned. One day before the “main event](http://dawn.com/2013/03/09/alleged-blasphemy-in-lahore-turns-ugly/)” the Christian locality was raided by these brave warriors as a rehearsal and as encouragement to more holy warriors to earn “sawab”. Provincial authorities told the Christian residents to vacate their homes before the announced burning. These hundreds of Christians had to be slaughtered because a boy of the locality had spoken some bad words. These bad words had been heard by just one good Muslim. Of course, no evidence was needed. So, the mosques went into full fury; Lions and Eagles swelled in rage.
Meanwhile, rumors circulated about the cancellation of the coming elections. Such “news” had circulated all through five years. They had intensified when Imran Khan followed by Allama Qadri demanded the dismissal of the elected governments, and after the Quetta and Karachi incidents.
Our hearts ache in helpless frustration when we see massacre after massacre with holy impunity. We groan unheard when again and again our “defenders” manipulate our constitution against our constitution and brilliantly arouse civilians against civilians: “Well if law and order is to be restored by us, then what use are you?” an innocently bored general asks the politicians at the end of an agitation. The politicians, who have saved their skins by obediently playing second fiddle for years, save their skins by submitting confessions for pardon. Great work! Great recipe for takeovers! The first step defeats the police and civil rule through strategic assets, then arouses national clamor, requesting a takeover.
We are more aware than ever before that as a people, we do not deserve the democratic option. We have to salute a savior. And two of them, are available: Army Generals or Taliban Generals. In fact, it is not a choice but a compulsion. They will settle affairs among themselves; such is perhaps our destiny. Allah seems to have chosen kings and soldiers as destiny of all Muslims for all times because prosperous Arabs and upper and middle class Muslims love them. In past centuries we had kings, like other communities. But generals and jihadists appeared in recent history to combat the heretical trends of democracy and human rights when these concepts emerged. Perhaps, that is why Muslim immigrants are struggling against the representative democracies of the West.
But it is not true that generals and jihadists overthrow every rule they serve. They are loyal to kings and Sheikhs and Imams. They hate only modern Muslim rulers who choose the heretical path of democracy.
Muslim kings ruled for centuries the Indian population which was deeply hostile to their rule most of the time. Throughout these centuries there were tiring wars, mass armed revolts and deep unrest which the army alone handled, because no ‘darogha’ or ‘kotwal’ could handle them. But no general ever took over.
The British, foreign rulers with a foreign religion, ruled us with a few thousand English soldiers and a large army of Muslims and other locals. Muslim soldiers faithfully fought to defend the British rule against Muslim jihadists led by Syed Ahmad Shaheed and others for half a century. Muslims finally fought for these non-Muslim masters in WW2. The British hanged the Muslim ulema, they massacred in Jallianwala, they hung freedom fighters, they hung Ilm Din, a far greater hero of the All India Muslims than any other self-appointed defender of the Prophet; he had been defended by Iqbal and Jinnah. But he was hanged without the need of a Martial Law.
Musaddiq, Soekarno, Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif were easy to be overthrown because they ruled through democracy. Ayatullahs of Iran, Suhartos and Ziaul Haqs can rule till their deaths with divine authority. They hanged and lynched hundred thousands of their innocent citizens in the name of Islam, they plunged their people in a meaningless militancy. They have brought misery and hypocrisy to their people. But no protest came from their generals, not even grumbling.
The unlimited rule of kings, holy men and foreign rulers has been a norm because armies served the state authority, because no general interfered with political power and no agency created independent civil brigades of assassins to create anarchy as a pretext for takeovers. Isn’t it grotesque that an intelligence network which wrestles with CIA and KGB, which can locate highly covered foreign agents, conveniently fails to locate its own leashed Lions of the Desert?
As helpless observes of our disaster, we can just cry. They can continue killing Christians and Ahmedi, Hazaras and Shias and target our finest men. The world seems to be on the side of these holy destroyers. The “conscientious West”, which comes out in hundreds of millions to protest against an invasion of Iraq, sleep in peace when our Lions and Eagles devour helpless humans.
[HR][/HR] *
http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/mubarik-80.jpg?w=670
The author is a renowned Pakistani intellectual. His Urdu books Tehzeebi Nargisyat and Mubaalghe, Mughaalte are widely regarded as the revival of critical thinking and free inquiry in Urdu non-fiction*
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
you posted it in 'gas pipeline' thread.
thanks...
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Something fishy going on i also posted a reply in one thread and it was found in another 
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
i swear I posted mobariak article in this thread and it ended up in the gas thread…
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
Bullying Christians over ‘blasphemy’ in Pakistan - Alarabiya.net English | Front Page
Last Update: Tuesday, 12 March 2013 KSA 08:41 - GMT 05:41
Bullying Christians over ‘blasphemy’ in Pakistan
Tuesday, 12 March 2013
Pakistan again hit the world media headlines this week when “unknown” rioters set ablaze over 150 houses and shops of Christians living in a shanty settlement in the downtown Lahore, capital of country’s biggest province, Punjab.
The attack came a day after the local police evacuated Joseph colony locality and repulsed a Muslims mob trying to attack the place in search of a Christian youth accused of using blasphemous language against Prophet of Islam (pbuh), while quarreling in a drunken state.
Luckily no life was lost in the incident, in contrast to the countless killings taking place in other major cities like Karachi, Quetta, Peshawar and the tribal region of the country, in bomb blasts and target killings over the last decade which were the spillover of the U.S.-led war on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Other side of the story
While mainstream local and foreign media are toeing the same line of misuse of Islamic laws of blasphemy against the Holy Prophet (pbuh). But few quarters accused media of again playing up the stereotypical hype against blasphemy laws, ignoring the fact that some powerful iron scrap dealers had been pressurizing the dwellers for the last many years to sell their lands surrounded by a number of large scrap warehouses and foundries. And why angry Muslim mob returned without torching the houses on the first day after clashing with the police and being told the accused had been arrested.
The media was accused of ignoring that most of those arrested for arson comprised bulk of the illiterate laborers of the scrap foundries and warehouses, acting on the orders of the powerful employers who had also been campaigning for the elections of their association and already mobilizing the people on that count.
Pakistan is two months away from general elections, and witnessing a sharp upsurge in bomb explosions at public places and sniper killings in past couple of months. Security agencies see it as foreign controlled conspiracy to postpone the polls by creating chaos since the poll surveys had predicted victory for right wing political parties opposed to the U.S. war on terror. Apart from the blasts, the sniper killings in country’s biggest city and commercial hub, Karachi, had also jumped up.
Attack on Christian locality earned bad name for already maligned Pakistan in the world. It followed a series of huge bomb blasts in Quetta and Karachi in the past few weeks targeting primarily the minority Shia community in an attempt to trigger Shia-Sunni riots, but failed to achieve that presumed objective, said an official in Punjab.
Use of sectarian groups by unpopular regimes
The monster of sectarian strife had remained a big challenge for Pakistan over the last three decades. The powers ruling the country from behind the scene had always used this ‘effective weapon’ deftly to undermine powerful political movements against dictatorships. Unpopular military governments secretly backed sectarian and linguistic groups for their own interests. Foreign countries fighting a proxy war inside Pakistani territories provided these groups money and arms through intelligence agencies. They grew into big monsters with the passage of time and became a nuisance for the country. After the former dictator General [retired] Pervez Musharaff allowed bases to US forces in the wake of 9-11, some groups with strong religious leanings turned against his dictatorial regime.
No doubt, the honor of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is dearer to Muslims over everything else. Punishment for blasphemy is incorporated in the law. But the law is often misused for settling personal scores, mostly against the minorities due to the ever growing bad governance and the resulting intolerance in the country. Joseph Colony tragedy was a glaring example of police mishandling, which acted in bizarre manner by first evacuating the locality and then leaving it unguarded on the next day.
Guarding against mischief mongers
Entire history of Islam is full of treating religious minorities with exemplary treatment that acted as catalyst to bring scores of them into Islamic folds. Pakistan is the continuity of the same traditions as its founder Quaid-e-Azam [great leader] Muhammad Ali Jinnah rightly put it in his first address to the constituent assembly that no discrimination whatsoever would be made with any citizen on account of his religion, cast or creed in the light of golden Islamic principles.
Mistreatment with any minority is against the Islam which is the founding ideology of Pakistan. Those victimize minorities deserve harsh punishments according to law. But the causes leading to mob violence on the issue of blasphemy, and the growing indiscipline and intolerance in society need to be analyzed and arrested.
Ambitions of western colonialists need to be checked which misused media to create grounds to commit aggression against Muslim countries in the past. Western intellectuals had already indicated they are in experiencing a clash of civilization against Islam, and hence crafting media hype against Islamic civilization.
Indifferent ruling elite
While Christians homes were ablaze, Pakistani prime minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf was on a private but unwanted visit to India to see the historic shrine at Ajmer Sharif, just six days ahead of his government’s term expires. His sightseeing at the expense of taxpayers’ money in the dying moments of his rule brought him embarrassment when custodian of the shrine refused to welcome him because of maltreatment to religious minorities and the alleged beheading of an Indian soldier by Pakistani troops at the Line of Control dividing disputed Kashmir between two countries a couple of months ago.
This attitude was enough to judge the concern of Pakistani rulers for the lives of citizens. Similarly, no heads were rolled on death of dozens of innocent people daily in Karachi in sniper killings. The killings intensified in during the last couple of months depicting the civil war of Beirut of the 70’s and 80’s, but served as no cause of concern for Zardari’s regime.
Nobody in the country has any clue as to how the bloodshed could be stopped and when? God save this country!
Mansoor Jafar is the founding Editor of Al Arabiya Urdu based at Islamabad. He can be reached through Twitter: @mansoorjafar
Re: Another nonsense - another bad news!
Yeah mohtaram, I forgot, no one can prove U wrong coz U are one who never is. So U won again and leave me fuming. :( U used the right word, essence behind ur words were truth, and no one can fight truth on earth. I admit.
.......I never called those fleeing India stupid. *I called those ppls, who out of their ignorance commit blasphemy, stupid. * .....
OK. You called those who commit blasphemy ignorant and stupid.
Now, you or someone also said blasphemy law in India is to appease minorities, so which "minority" MF Hussain and Deepa Mehta (FIlm maker) was appeased by using this law in India?
Riots broke out on Mehta film by Hindu fanatics and death threats were given to him.
Mehta is now in Canada. Another exile.
And yet we keep hearing there is no blasphemy concept in Hinduism. :)
Re: Mob loots, torches Christian colony in Lahore
There is no support from me for the Govt. not providing the security to ALL of its citizens.
My post was comparing the two events (Abbas Town and Joseph Colony) in terms of monetary compensations given to affected people.
Surely, if these events could be avoided, Govt. didn’t have to pay out of public money which could easily be spent on reinforcing the security…in term avoiding the loss of lives and properties.