Kerry-Lugar Bill

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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If you had only read my last post .... but then that is not the point ... your whole logic is on misinformation .... that is why you refuse to discuss anyhing. Your last attempt to read a resolution ..... we know what happened to that :D.

Coming back to articls 203 ..... all it says is that Pakistan will act against groups that have already been banned by United Nations .... and the actions that are mentioned are what Pakistan has already pledged to do. But then the problem is here .... because in this case aid is connected and everthing is written down. And secondly the aid is connected to the military .... first time they will miss out whiel as rest of Pakistan will recive the aid !!!!!

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

LMAO! Yes I do remember. Hell I will even bump it just for you.

Nope. It does not state that. Irrelevant to what it states, National Security concerns are not discussed in Washington. Regardless of how much money we get in the bill.

43

Told you ... won't discuss ... so will take it one by one ....

What in your opinion is Pakistan's position on Al qaeda, Taliban. LET and JeM ?

What action should Pakistan take against elements connected with these groups ?

Who is Tendulkar? I don’t know, Sharapova
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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

It is irrelevant what Pakistan's position is on the matter. It is for the Pakistan government to decide on its own internal national security matters. Not for Washington to tell us what they are.

But to answer your questions:

  1. Pakistan position is created by its government structure and to be deteremined and revised by the representatives of the People of Pakistan. Based on those two premises, the position of the Government of Pakistan is to deal with the threats to our national security as the GOP deems fit.

  2. The actions to be taken by Pakistan against those elements is to be determined by the representative of the People of Pakistan, its armed forces and any other individuals of Pakistan deemed necessary by the GOP.

45

Here you were shouting from rooftops UN UN .... now you yourself have no answer. Pakistan as member of international community has certain responsibilty. And in the name of "national security" you are avioding to act against elements who are not only a danger to the world you to Pakistan itself. The reason for that is crystal clear .... and is becoming increasingly clear to fellow your countrymen too.

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Didn't like my answers did you. No worries. The fact remains that the actions to be taken against any element within Pakistan's territory is a decision to be taken by the Pakistani Government and its armed forces. Not to be decided anywhere else.

Also the UN has nothing to do with this neither does the notion of "collective responsibility". Our national soveriegnty is just that ours. We decide on our own national security measures and how to handle them. Not some bill passed in Washington DC.

47

Here i post the link for UNSC resolution … which you are fond of refering to … but as you have shown in past … have no intention of adhering to. I am refering to “you” as yourself and not as Pakistan the state. And you know this is under Chapter VII … since you “claim” to be working for UN perhaps you should be aware what resolution under Chapter VII mean …

The Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee - 1267

The above-mentioned resolutions have all been adopted under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter and require all States to take the following measures in connection with any individual or entity associated with Al-Qaida, Usama bin Laden and/or the Taliban as designated by the Committee:

  • freeze without delay the funds and other financial assets or economic resources of designated individuals and entities assets freeze],
  • prevent the entry into or transit through their territories by designated individuals
    travel ban], and
  • prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale and transfer from their territories or by their nationals outside their territories, or using their flag vessels or aircraft, of arms and related materiel of all types, spare parts, and technical advice, assistance, or training related to military activities, to designated individuals and entities arms embargo].
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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

The bill is a bilateral matter. Not a multilateral one. Keep the discussion relevant.

49

That is the tragedy of this .... you along with people with similar thinking are dragging Pakistan into a fight that is not theirs to fight.

What is the sweetest thing anyone has done for you on GS
50

Yes ... all the bill is saying .... understand that fully..... the US secretary of state has to give a report to the congressional committe on the "progress" made by Pakistan towards meeting these goals. Here i post it for you again

SEC. 203. LIMITATIONS ON CERTAIN ASSISTANCE.
(a) Limitation on Security-related Assistance- For fiscal years 2011 through 2014, no security-related assistance may be provided to Pakistan in a fiscal year until the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, makes the certification required under subsection (c) for such fiscal year.
(b) Limitation on Arms Transfers- For fiscal years 2012 through 2014, no letter of offer to sell major defense equipment to Pakistan may be issued pursuant to the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and no license to export major defense equipment to Pakistan may be issued pursuant to such Act in a fiscal year until the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, makes the certification required under subsection (c) for such fiscal year.

(c) Certification- The certification required by this subsection is a certification by the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, to the appropriate congressional committees that–
(1) the Government of Pakistan is continuing to cooperate with the United States in efforts to dismantle supplier networks relating to the acquisition of nuclear weapons-related materials, such as providing relevant information from or direct access to Pakistani nationals associated with such networks;
(2) the Government of Pakistan during the preceding fiscal year has demonstrated a sustained commitment to and is making significant efforts towards combating terrorist groups, consistent with the purposes of assistance described in section 201, including taking into account the extent to which the Government of Pakistan has made progress on matters such as–
INDENT ceasing support, including by any elements within the Pakistan military or its intelligence agency, to extremist and terrorist groups, particularly to any group that has conducted attacks against United States or coalition forces in Afghanistan, or against the territory or people of neighboring countries;
(B) preventing al Qaeda, the Taliban and associated terrorist groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, from operating in the territory of Pakistan, including carrying out cross-border attacks into neighboring countries, closing terrorist camps in the FATA, dismantling terrorist bases of operations in other parts of the country, including Quetta and Muridke, and taking action when provided with intelligence about high-level terrorist targets; and
(C) strengthening counterterrorism and anti-money laundering laws; and
(3) the security forces of Pakistan are not materially and substantially subverting the political or judicial processes of Pakistan.
[/INDENT]

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

While your opinion is duly noted, it is irrelevant as you are neither a Pakistani national nor a representative of the Government of Pakistan.

I would also like to point out it is interesting that the Military, Foreign Office, and various political parties do not agree with Section 203. But you an Indian who has no vest interest in safeguarding Pakistan are right.

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Oh good you can finally read. Why did you miss the first part of the article?

And again as I have stated before. The national security concerns of Pakistan are to be decided by the Government of Pakistan. In that regard no other government has the right to verify the actions taken by the GOP on actions taken.

53

This dicussion is between you and me as two persons ..... and frankly you are nobody to make note of my opinion .......

My interest is and am sure a lot of people in Pakistan would have the same interest ......... the elements who are mentioned in the bill are effectively neutralized by the Pakistani state.

54

Well had to post it becasue you will going around saying things like "bombing" Quetta ... so had to post to show .... see there is nothing like that :D

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

I think you are confusing me with Kaka. Its okay. Its a last ditch effort by you to pull of something. You asked questions, I answered them. You didn't like it you brought in the UN which is not relevant.

So after 2 pages and 2 days of discussions you finally read the right paragraph. Even then you can't copy and paste properly and miss out part of the text.

Now you are confusing me with what someone else said. Well done. Either your ability to comprehend is very limited or you need better reading glasses.

56

Kaka took the high road when discussion started ..... and you stuck you neck for him. Now you want to slug it out on this point to will do ... but let us keep it to the "meat" of the dicussion. byut i wonder if you have it to do that ... by the way do you know the difference between Chapter 6 & Chapter 7 :D

57

Interesting .... how come you dont post what i missed and that is relevant to thias discussion .... am sure UN computer allow copy paste

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

chuckles Good to see you can't discuss the topic at hand. Its okay. Here is the full article:

[quote]
SEC. 203. LIMITATIONS ON CERTAIN ASSISTANCE.

(a) Limitation on Security-Related Assistance- For fiscal years 2011 through 2014, no security-related assistance may be provided to Pakistan in a fiscal year until the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, makes the certification required under subsection (c) for such fiscal year.

(b) Limitation on Arms Transfers- For fiscal years 2012 through 2014, no letter of offer to sell major defense equipment to Pakistan may be issued pursuant to the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and no license to export major defense equipment to Pakistan may be issued pursuant to such Act in a fiscal year until the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, makes the certification required under subsection (c) for such fiscal year.

(c) Certification- The certification required by this subsection is a certification by the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, to the appropriate congressional committees that--

(1) the Government of Pakistan is continuing to cooperate with the United States in efforts to dismantle supplier networks relating to the acquisition of nuclear weapons-related materials, such as providing relevant information from or direct access to Pakistani nationals associated with such networks;

(2) the Government of Pakistan during the preceding fiscal year has demonstrated a sustained commitment to and is making significant efforts towards combating terrorist groups, consistent with the purposes of assistance described in section 201, including taking into account the extent to which the Government of Pakistan has made progress on matters such as--

(A) ceasing support, including by any elements within the Pakistan military or its intelligence agency, to extremist and terrorist groups, particularly to any group that has conducted attacks against United States or coalition forces in Afghanistan, or against the territory or people of neighboring countries;

(B) preventing al Qaeda, the Taliban and associated terrorist groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, from operating in the territory of Pakistan, including carrying out cross-border attacks into neighboring countries, closing terrorist camps in the FATA, dismantling terrorist bases of operations in other parts of the country, including Quetta and Muridke, and taking action when provided with intelligence about high-level terrorist targets; and

(C) strengthening counterterrorism and anti-money laundering laws; and

(3) the security forces of Pakistan are not materially and substantially subverting the political or judicial processes of Pakistan.

(d) Certain Payments-

(1) IN GENERAL- Subject to paragraph (2), none of the funds appropriated for security-related assistance for fiscal years 2010 through 2014, or any amounts appropriated to the Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund established under the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009 (Public Law 111-32), may be obligated or expended to make payments relating to--

(A) the Letter of Offer and Acceptance PK-D-YAD signed between the Governments of the United States of America and Pakistan on September 30, 2006;

(B) the Letter of Offer and Acceptance PK-D-NAP signed between the Governments of the United States of America and Pakistan on September 30, 2006; and

(C) the Letter of Offer and Acceptance PK-D-SAF signed between the Governments of the United States of America and Pakistan on September 30, 2006.

(2) EXCEPTION- Funds appropriated for security-related assistance for fiscal years 2010 through 2014 may be used for construction and related activities carried out pursuant to the Letters of Offer and Acceptance described in paragraph (1).

(e) Waiver-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, may waive the limitations contained in subsections (a), (b), and (d) for a fiscal year if the Secretary of State determines that is important to the national security interests of the United States to do so.

(2) PRIOR NOTICE OF WAIVER- The Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, may not exercise the authority of paragraph (1) until 7 days after the Secretary of State provides to the appropriate congressional committees a written notice of the intent to issue to waiver and the reasons therefor. The notice may be submitted in classified or unclassified form, as necessary.

(f) Appropriate Congressional Committees Defined- In this section, the term ‘appropriate congressional committees’ means--

(1) the Committee on Foreign Affairs, the Committee on Armed Services, the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives; and

(2) the Committee on Foreign Relations, the Committee on Armed Services, and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate.
[/quote]

59

Good so which part did i miss that you want to dicuss .... as far as i know you had issue with US asking Pakistan to "bomb" Quetta .... which is not mentioned anywhere .....

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Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Really, where did I state that?