Kerry-Lugar Bill

This was your response after Kaka's post ...

so what was Kaka right about ... after all this is what Kaka had said ...

So ... think we are good here .... so now you are saying thet the bill does NOT mention bombing Quetta ... think we are making progress here.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

So how many of you have read the actual bill instead of reading the interview of people. I mean "he said that bill has..." type of interviews.... or teasers of it ?

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

some people making that confusion that without this 1.5billion a year, Pakistan cant cope or survive and this 1.5B$ are the last hope for Pakistan.

come on guys, Pakistan may be a third wold and corruption ridden country, its not Afghanistan

Pakistan last yearly budget was for $36 billion with 900million deficit! now you can all see how much 1.5 aid money will help 36+ billion budget government!

for some much begger condition and money will be used by US ngo only through US embassy in Pakistan directly, this is not worth it. this much money we can save by easy budget cuts for non development expenses.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Look at another view.
Pakistan have now very less friends in the USA and the rest of the world.
Howmuch we can afford to loose?

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

No I said where did I state that. I did not ask if I support Kaka is his idea that national security is to be discussed only in Pakistan.

Read the bill. Section 203 is where I have the problem. Remove that and I see nothing wrong with the bill.

The Associated Press: Pakistani official: US aid won’t hurt sovereignty

Very well … there are three points in the bill in this section that requires certification … do you have objection to all three on you just have objection to any particular one … Will it from there …


(c) Certification- The certification required by this subsection is a certification by the Secretary of State, under the direction of the President, to the appropriate congressional committees that–

(1) the Government of Pakistan is continuing to cooperate with the United States in efforts to dismantle supplier networks relating to the acquisition of nuclear weapons-related materials, such as providing relevant information from or direct access to Pakistani nationals associated with such networks;


(2) the Government of Pakistan during the preceding fiscal year has demonstrated a sustained commitment to and is making significant efforts towards combating terrorist groups, consistent with the purposes of assistance described in section 201, including taking into account the extent to which the Government of Pakistan has made progress on matters such as–

(A) ceasing support, including by any elements within the Pakistan military or its intelligence agency, to extremist and terrorist groups, particularly to any group that has conducted attacks against United States or coalition forces in Afghanistan, or against the territory or people of neighboring countries;


(B) preventing al Qaeda, the Taliban and associated terrorist groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, from operating in the territory of Pakistan, including carrying out cross-border attacks into neighboring countries, closing terrorist camps in the FATA, dismantling terrorist bases of operations in other parts of the country, including Quetta and Muridke, and taking action when provided with intelligence about high-level terrorist targets; and


(C) strengthening counterterrorism and anti-money laundering laws; and


(3) the security forces of Pakistan are not materially and substantially subverting the political or judicial processes of Pakistan.](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A192")](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A191”)](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A190”)](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A189”)](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A188”)](“http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A187”)]("http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642&version=ih&nid=t0%3Aih%3A186”)

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

See this news artical printed on front page of Jang today 15th oct 2009.
Surprising : **Hay na
**
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http://www.jang.net/jm/10-14-2009/images/1414.gif

It appears that bill is going to be signed soon and accepted by the Government of Pakistan. It is a good news and there should be no opposition now since objections have been addressed.

DAWN.COM | World | US note dilutes some conditions in Kerry-Lugar bill

WASHINGTON: The requirement for an effective civilian control over promotions and strategic planning in the Pakistani military is not mentioned in a new joint explanatory statement of the US Congress issued on Wednesday.

‘There is no intent to, and nothing in this act in any way suggests that there should be, any US role in micromanaging internal Pakistani affairs, including the promotion of Pakistani military officers or the internal operations of the Pakistani military,’ said an explanatory note attached to the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009.

The explanatory note also dilutes the requirement that needed Pakistan to interrogate any Pakistani national involved in nuclear proliferation and to allow US officials access to such a person.

A new clause included in the explanatory note now ‘reflects our understanding that cooperative effort currently being undertaken by the governments of Pakistan and the United States to combat proliferation will continue.’

Section 302 of the act Congress passed late last month required the Secretary of State to submit annual reports to appropriate congressional committees to justify the continuation of security and military assistance to Pakistan. A failure to issue such a report could cause the aid to be discontinued.

There’s no such requirement for economic assistance. The secretary’s report shall include an assessment of the extent to which the Pakistan government exercises effective civilian control of the military.

This report should also include ‘a description of the extent to which civilian executive leaders and parliament exercise oversight and approval of military budgets, the chain of command, the process of promotion for senior military leaders, civilian involvement in strategic guidance and planning, and military involvement in civil administration,’ said the original document.

Pakistani diplomats, however, explained to the media on Wednesday that while the above clause could not be deleted from the bill, the explanatory statement would make it ineffective. The administration will no longer be asked to issue such a report.

Missing from the explanatory note are words like ‘civilian executive leaders and parliament’ exercising the power of ‘oversight and approval’ and the requirement that the military will not get involved in civil administration.

The explanatory note also states that even the remaining requirement can be ‘waived if the determination is made by the Secretary of State in the interest of (US) national security that this was necessary to continue’ military assistance to Pakistan.

Interestingly, the requirement for ‘effective civilian control’ over the military was also absent from the original Senate version of the Kerry-Lugar bill.

The earlier bill said that the US intended to work with the government of Pakistan to ensure that Pakistan had strong and effective law-enforcement and national defence forces, under civilian leadership, with sufficient and appropriate security equipment and training to effectively defend Pakistan against internal and external threats.

In this clause, there was no mention of civilian control over chain of command or the process of promotion in the Pakistan army or any thing else hair-raising about the armed forces.

The explanatory note was issued jointly by the US House of Representatives and the Senate, clarifying their intent behind the aid to Pakistan bill.

The statement stresses that the US neither seeks to micromanage Pakistani affairs nor impinge on its sovereignty.

Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and Congressman Howard Berman, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, read out part of the statement inside Capitol Hill, standing beside Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi.

‘This document today is I think a historic document, a step forward in our relationship,’ Qureshi told a joint news conference with Senator Kerry and Congressman Berman.

'I am going back to Pakistan to tell my parliament and conclude the debate on the note that our relationship can move forward , we will deepen it and we will strengthen it,’ he said.

Senator Kerry and Congressman Berman reaffirmed their resolve to forge a long-term relationship with Pakistan, adding that the legislation, now being called as Kerry-Lugar-Berman Act, manifests the American commitment to economic uplift of the Pakistani people.

‘There is nothing in this bill that impinges on Pakistani sovereignty, period,’ said Senator Kerry.

The joint statement says that the reports envisioned in Section 302 are not binding on Pakistan, and require only the provision of information by the executive branch to the US Congress, in furtherance of the proposed legislation’s stated purpose of strengthening civilian institutions and the democratically-elected government of Pakistan.

The final text of the legislation reflects an agreement reached by the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

‘The purpose of this explanatory statement is to facilitate accurate interpretation of the text and to ensure faithful implementation of its provisions in accordance with the intentions of the legislation,’ said Senator Kerry.

The core intent of the Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act is to demonstrate the American people’s long-term commitment to the people of Pakistan, he added.

Senator Kerry and Congressman Berman said that the United States valued its friendship with the Pakistani people and honoured the great sacrifices made by Pakistani security forces in the fight against extremism, and the legislation reflected the goals shared by the two governments.

The joint statement emphasised that the legislation ‘does not seek in any way to compromise Pakistan’s sovereignty, impinge on Pakistan’s national security interests, or micromanage any aspect of Pakistani military or civilian operations’.

There are no conditions on Pakistan attached to the authorisation of $7.5 billion in non-military aid.
The only requirements on this funding are financial accountability measures that Congress is imposing on the US executive branch, to ensure that this assistance supports programmes that most benefit the Pakistani people.

President Barack Obama has till midnight Friday to sign the Kerry-Lugar bill and he will sign it before that, according to White House spokesman Robert Gibbs.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

I dont mind Americans keep a tight leash on the money they are spending in Pakistan.

The money should be used to better the economic situation in Pakistan and the make the military more efficient.

Much in the way the aid package helps Egypt and Israel.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

I have a problem with the entire selection. Just out right delete it.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Aid Package helping Egypt... Eygptians are suffering from right and left, majority has to leave the country to find a job and way of living... and yes this can only be accomplished by American Aid

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Bill is signed.

Now upto you what you want.
Obama signs Kerry-Lugar Bill
President Barack Obama signed a 7.5 billion dollar aid package for Pakistan into law Thursday, after the US Congress acted to placate critics in Islamabad who warned it violated Pakistani sovereignty.
“This law is the tangible manifestation of broad support for Pakistan in the US, as evidenced by its bipartisan, bicameral, unanimous passage in Congress,” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said in a statement. The package is intended to bolster Pakistan’s battle against extremism. The measure offers 1.5 billion dollars a year for five years to improve Pakistani schools, to fund groups that defend the rights of women and children, and money to train and modernize the Pakistani peace force. It also supports voter education, civil society and improvements in the functioning of parliament.
Fears for the package’s future were quelled when Senator John Kerry and Representative Howard Berman, who head committees handling foreign relations in Congress, gave Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi a document stating that the plan did not impose conditions or infringe on Pakistani sovereignty. The lawmakers’ statement said the aid was meant “to forge a closer collaborative relationship between Pakistan and the United States, not to dictate the national policy or impinge on the sovereignty of Pakistan in any way. Any interpretation of this act which suggests that the United States does not fully recognize and respect the sovereignty of Pakistan would be directly contrary to congressional intent,” it said.
Obama’s move followed days of tension over the package, which sparked a showdown between the Pakistani government and the powerful military, prompting Pakistan’s Foreign Minister to rush to Washington on a rescue mission.

This is very valid point.

Pakistanis should not expect "miracles" with $7.5 billion aid.

Reality is that Pakistan needs around $35 billion a year. And $1.5 billion is just a small percentage of that need.

However such agreements aren't supposed to be measured by the dollars and cents in one package.

In reality such AID packages are a way into "people-to-people" and "business-to-business" relationships. Those non-governmental partnerships between Pak and American businesses would bring the real money that could over time be in the order of $100-150 billion a year.

However if we copy Egyptians, and grow long beards, and hide under tope and burqas then there will be no business-to-business cooperation.

on the other hand if we behave like Japanese, S. Koreans, and Chinese, and encourage open tourism and travel for the Western businessmen and ordinary people, then we will get the real benefit from the West.

So the choice is ours! Either we go with Long-beards+Hijabi tribal culture, or tourist-friendly industrialized civilized cultures of Japan, S.Korea, India, and china.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

Perhaps This is the last statement
perhaps you will wrie more

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Egyptians would be suffering even more if it were not for the American Aid.

The American Aid Allows Egypt to keep a million man military and money to invest in major development jobs. This employs millions of people and keeps inflation low.

The problem is that Egyptian population has swelled rapidly and there aren't enough jobs. If there are any, those are reserved for rich Egyptian businessmen and their children.

Egyptian economy would collapse if were not for the American Aid.

Look at the way Israel uses American Aid. Instead of using it to buy weapons like Egypt does...it uses to invest in R&D which creates job which are not dependent on American Aid.

We need to use this American Aid Money like the Israelis do instead of the Egyptians.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

One could argue that the US aid has allowed the Egyptians to bandaid over their slowly bleeding economy rather than actually make the dramatic reforms needed to fix it.

Re: Kerry-Lugar Bill

^^ those reforms would only happen if there is democracy in Egypt

but since Gamal Mubarak will take over Egypt once his father retires...I doubt Egypt will have any major reforms in the future

It has become fashionable to dismiss Zaid Hamid as another sar phira nationalist but he perhaps has a valid point here; says the K-J bill is nothing more than rishwat and attacks ‘besharam’ Hussain Haqqani, PPP Government and PML-N/Opposition. Thinks the government’s days are numbered if the bill is implemented

make of it what you will..

just watched an episode of KalTak:

We should only accept economic assistance ($1.5 billion) which is unconditional but turn down (as yet undeclared) security-related assistance for the time-being. It is this part of the aid which comes with conditions that undermine our security and intelligence services - Humayun Akhtar (PML-Q)

makes sense..