Re: Jail Breaks
Law is simple , one arrested can not be released without court or bail in bailable offences .
Section 188 is not bailable so only court
Or Gullu Butt
Re: Jail Breaks
Right, so now that justifies Imran Khan and his PTI mob doing it?
No its not justified, shesha dikha raha hoon.
Re: Jail Breaks
I think you did not even watched the videos I posted. :)
Police cannot arrest ... simple, CANNOT ARREST without giving reason and that reason they have to prove it in court, as citizen can use that reason to persecute that police officer, and if police officer cannot prove the reason he arrested, then police officer could lose his job and citizen would be compensated.... but if police officer assaulted a citizen (as happening in Pakistan) then citizens himself can arrest that police officer ... or at least citizen assaulted can persecute that police officer and the police officer would go to prison.
Watch second video ... and you will get your answer where 8 police officers could not do anything (could not even arrest the person even when they wanted to ... just because they themselves were worried to arrest without valid reason). ... Watch 3rd video, then you would know that leave arrest, if police abuse their power or hit a citizen then citizen can arrest even police officer (here a police inspector got arrested by a citizen) who handed him over to police.
I admit I didnt watch the entierty. But i have a lot of respect for England and her institutions.
Still the point remains. That the police dont arrest someone is not because they do not have the authority to do so. They do. They can arrest IF they want to. And IF they arrest you, you cannot resist, regardless of whether you are in the right.
The citizen can hold the police accountable, but not until the Courts deem that citizen to have been unlawfully arrested. If you claim that a police officer assaulted you, that is something that must be proven in a court. Police may lose his job, but only AFTER the fact, and only after the Court has deemed you innocent. You cannot determine yourself to be innocent and thus refuse arrest. Thats not how it works.
No politician can step in to save you. Only the Courts and evidence.
Re: Jail Breaks
No its not justified, shesha dikha raha hoon.
Right, so why should I support IK, he is also the same sort of goon that PML-N people are. Yet here we are, all these people camped out drooling over Imran KhAN.
Re: Jail Breaks
Again you are wrong. 
Let show you one more video. Anyhow, before you see the video, let me give some detail too. From end of June 2011, a directive is given to police that .. if they are verbally abused or citizen swear at them, then also they cannot arrest a citizen.
Video is discussion on this directive (the directive even today is valid) … and rightly so, as one who is given power to enforce law on behalf of the state, should be tolerant enough and should have control over themselves, that not to take things personally, especially when it is verbal … abuse or swearing.
In past police could have arrested a citizen if they verbally abused police (give them wrong type of gali), but in June 2011 their this power was taken away. Actually, many people around (amongst citizen) did not liked it but it was considered as right of people to live freely and since police can stop or arrest them when they overstepped law, they can get agitated with police, hence law that in agitation, even if they verbally abuse police, police would not have power to arrest them … though in USA, that is not the case, as there if you verbally abuse police they can react.
Re: Jail Breaks
^^^ One other important thing to remember is that, if there is cause or reason for British police to arrest a citizen then they would arrest, regardless of that citizen is ordinary British citizen, bureaucrat, judge, police officer himself, minister or even Prime Minister.
Whereas in Pakistan of Gully Thug Shareef, police can do everything to citizen but nothing to him (Nawaz Shareef) even if he (NS) breaks law. For police, arresting a citizen, even beating or killing a citizen, is their right, regardless of that citizen is innocent ... and if Thug Shareef wants to, then that itself becomes cause for all unlawful act of police ... even judges can give unjust verdicts if judge wants to or Thug Nawaz wants to.
lakin yea kab tak? InshaAllah time is coming that all would change. I am hoping that if Imran or (IK + TUQ) make government, first thing they should do is sack entire Punjab police and a large section of bureaucrats who are living on the bones of Thug Nawaz ... and after investigation, give them exemplary punishment ... All police, especially police officer who are found involved in killing then they should be hanged.
Re: Jail Breaks
mera bhai, this is getting tiresome. Aap ko bath sumaj nai ai.
Once again. That the Police dont arrest someone is not because they arent authorized to do so. They are. It is the court that decides whether the Arrest is Lawful. You as a person cannot resist arrest, and you cannot on the spot claim innocense. all that is determined after the arrest by a court.
Let me give you a hypothetical situation…
lets say that a person almost identical to you, same race, complexion, height, weight and clothing robs someone in the area you are in. The police find you and since you fit the description ask you to identify yourself. Are you telling me that in the UK, you, could walk away from the police because you know you are innocent, and the police would let you simply walk away, even though you fit the description of an assailant? Are you saying that because you believe you are innocent the police cannot arrest you or even question you?
I think you know as well as I that in such a situation you would be taken in on suspicion. It would then be up to the courts to decide your innocense or guilt.
Like wise, in Pakistan the people who are being arrested are not in a position to claim their own innocence. Its the courts that decide that.
Re: Jail Breaks
I doubt they could even arrest Imran Khan. You think the KP police could arrest IK since his party is in power? Thats just how Pakistan works. Police cant arrest anyone in power. Its not just Pakistan, try it in India, Bangladesh, etc. Its a developing country for god sakes, it takes time. If you try to force a change, you might get something even worse. Look at Iran, Egypt, Libya, Syria… Where have those “revolutions” led?
The police have the authority given to them by the state and by extension, us, to use force when necessary. If you try to cross boundaries, the police can and should stop you. In the US, protestors are tightly controlled. They are not allowed to leave the designated area. If they do they are arrested. If the police deem the situation is out of control and threat is perceived, they are authorized to use deadly force. Try climbing over the gate of the White house and see how that turns out. Whether the use of force is justified however, is once again determined by the courts, not by mobs or by individual citizens in their own capacity.
The PTI and PAT dont have respect for the institutions that govern this society. They are hence nothing more then anarchists. And anarchy never helps anyone. IK and Qadri have no vision other then some utopian society which has never existed and never will exist. IK simply want NS to resign. So he resigns, then what? He will likely be reelected as even PEW has shown that NS is more popular then IK, especially in Punjab.
And Qadri supporters are complete nuts. I doubt any of them actually know what they want, and if you asked, everyone would give you a different response.
Re: Jail Breaks
Wow so no problems with Police detaining and harassing people illegally on the orders from Nawaz Sharif but issues with Imran Khan resisting the illegal arrests? There is enough media coverage exposing illegal arrests of people who are not even related to dharna, fake FIRs are being registered against people who are not even present in the country and you talk about law and order????
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People who think the arrested should wait for the judicial trial and wait for the verdict... I mean seriously? Are they talking about Pakistan? Do they know how long it takes for cases to start and finish? Yes, rushing a mob to police station to rescue is illegal but then it was illegal to arrest a walking person without reason just because he was going away or in direction of dharna.
Re: Jail Breaks
Wow so no problems with Police detaining and harassing people illegally on the orders from Nawaz Sharif but issues with Imran Khan resisting the illegal arrests? There is enough media coverage exposing illegal arrests of people who are not even related to dharna, fake FIRs are being registered against people who are not even present in the country and you talk about law and order????
The problem with NS are issues to be resolved through parliament and through the courts. Another words, the change must come from within the system.
Imran Khan and his mob are trying to force change from outside, and through coercion. You need to strengthen the current system, and allow it to correct itself. What Imran is doing is no less then a coup, only this time its led by civilians and not army.
Perhaps you are all right, and arrests are illegal. But thats not your role, its the role of the courts to decide. Imran cant claim to respect the constitution and democracy and still override the duties invested in the countries Court system. If you respect that Courts mandate, then you have to leave it to them to decide if these arrests are justified or not. Media can highlight certain issues, but the courts are the nations ultimate arbitrator. Either respect their mandate or stop pretending.
Re: Jail Breaks
People who think the arrested should wait for the judicial trial and wait for the verdict... I mean seriously? Are they talking about Pakistan? Do they know how long it takes for cases to start and finish? Yes, rushing a mob to police station to rescue is illegal but then it was illegal to arrest a walking person without reason just because he was going away or in direction of dharna.
On top of that these people are detailed due to political affiliation, good luck with pursuing the cases legally. By the time the process finishes they would have spent weeks or months in jail ONLY because they attended the protest?
Re: Jail Breaks
People who think the arrested should wait for the judicial trial and wait for the verdict... I mean seriously? Are they talking about Pakistan? Do they know how long it takes for cases to start and finish? Yes, rushing a mob to police station to rescue is illegal but then it was illegal to arrest a walking person without reason just because he was going away or in direction of dharna.
Well, whats the alternative? You want mobs to go out and break into prisons and release whoever they like because the courts are to slow?
Re: Jail Breaks
On top of that these people are detailed due to political affiliation, good luck with pursuing the cases legally. By the time the process finishes they would have spent weeks or months in jail ONLY because they attended the protest?
So then Imran the great should be raising the issue of Judicial reform from within the Parliament, instead he preeches in front of swooning fans from atop his container.
Has the man championed any genuine reform.. All he talks about from his perch is his inqalab and NS is daku and should resign. The issues you raise are never mentioned in his speeches. Does it even occur to him that even if NS does resign, he will likely be reelected.
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Well, whats the alternative? You want mobs to go out and break into prisons and release whoever they like because the courts are to slow?
If govt is so sincere in providing justice, may be it should actually start working instead of focusing its energy countering its opponents/protests. The arrests should've taken place when PTV was attacked, arrests should've taken place when supposedly people entered or tried to enter Parliament/PM Secretariat etc, not when people are coming in/out of dharna.
Re: Jail Breaks
The problem with NS are issues to be resolved through parliament and through the courts. Another words, the change must come from within the system.
Imran Khan and his mob are trying to force change from outside, and through coercion. You need to strengthen the current system, and allow it to correct itself. What Imran is doing is no less then a coup, only this time its led by civilians and not army.
Perhaps you are all right, and arrests are illegal. But thats not your role, its the role of the courts to decide. Imran cant claim to respect the constitution and democracy and still override the duties invested in the countries Court system. If you respect that Courts mandate, then you have to leave it to them to decide if these arrests are justified or not. Media can highlight certain issues, but the courts are the nations ultimate arbitrator. Either respect their mandate or stop pretending.
And this is exactly what the system needs, a shake up from a political party rather than Army or ISI. You can raise your voice in the parliament for sure, there have been several genuine and honest people who tried to raise the voice in parliament and where are they all today?? Theoretically you are absolutely right, change must come from within the system but practically you have to enforce some of the changes. Power is something people do not give up voluntarily especially if it's used/abused for personal benefits. Why would Nawaz & co care about electoral reforms or independent NAB/Police/NADRA etc? You can cry your heart out in parliament but it would NEVER happen as it goes against their interests, some of these things have to be enforced (With the hope that Army does not interfere).
Re: Jail Breaks
If govt is so sincere in providing justice, may be it should actually start working instead of focusing its energy countering its opponents/protests. The arrests should've taken place when PTV was attacked, arrests should've taken place when supposedly people entered or tried to enter Parliament/PM Secretariat etc, not when people are coming in/out of dharna.
I dont think the protests are allowing them to work... A number of world leaders had to cancel visiting Pakistan because of IK's vanity project. The economy according to Moodys and World Bank had been improving, but the outlook has dimmed since IK came to town.
When they arrest people is not the contentious issue. Its whether the police have the authority to arrest people and whether IK or his mob have a right to prevent police from making arrests. My argument is simply that whether the arrests are lawful or not is up to the courts, not you me or Imran Khan.
Re: Jail Breaks
So then Imran the great should be raising the issue of Judicial reform from within the Parliament, instead he preeches in front of swooning fans from atop his container.
Has the man championed any genuine reform.. All he talks about from his perch is his inqalab and NS is daku and should resign. The issues you raise are never mentioned in his speeches. Does it even occur to him that even if NS does resign, he will likely be reelected.
So you are telling me that if you have a land dispute with a powerful figure IN PAKISTAN and they bribe policemen to detain your family members illegally, all you will do is to threaten them to go to court against them? Let me tell you that you will contact court as the last option as you know your family members will be detained for months or even years even if the court somehow miraculously rule in your favour.
Re: Jail Breaks
I dont think the protests are allowing them to work... A number of world leaders had to cancel visiting Pakistan because of IK's vanity project. The economy according to Moodys and World Bank had been improving, but the outlook has dimmed since IK came to town.
When they arrest people is not the contentious issue. Its whether the police have the authority to arrest people and whether IK or his mob have a right to prevent police from making arrests. My argument is simply that whether the arrests are lawful or not is up to the courts, not you me or Imran Khan.
Only one leader has postponed the visit, the Chinese chief, who else? Apparently there is difference in short-term goals and long-term objectives for the govt as well as the dharna-party, so 'oh the economy is suffering' will not budge the long-term party, govt should've realized it right from the beginning about it but the govt played bluff too. The blame of economy and other leaders not able to visit falls on both partys IMHO.
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And this is exactly what the system needs, a shake up from a political party rather than Army or ISI. You can raise your voice in the parliament for sure, there have been several genuine and honest people who tried to raise the voice in parliament and where are they all today?? Theoretically you are absolutely right, change must come from within the system but practically you have to enforce some of the changes. Power is something people do not give up voluntarily especially if it's used/abused for personal benefits. Why would Nawaz & co care about electoral reforms or independent NAB/Police/NADRA etc? You can cry your heart out in parliament but it would NEVER happen as it goes against their interests, some of these things have to be enforced (With the hope that Army does not interfere).
Fine, if you must protest then protest. But for god sakes, end it already. The govt consented to what he wanted. Now go home. Why this ridiculous demand of the PM resigning? Why? Even if their allegations of rigging are proven true, the PML-n still has enough seats.
This thing went from being a genuine cause, to being nothing more then IK stroking his ego. If the elections were so unfair, why did IK accept them from the outset? Why has he not resigned from KP? Why does he even think his parties election in KP was fair when the ANP coudlnt even run an effective campaign due to threats from the TTP (who seemed to love Imran)..
And this Qadri joker... Who the hell is this guy?!?!? Why is Imran Khan, an elected representative championing some two bit mullah who doesnt even live in Pakistan?