Did he call them kafirs or munafiqeen? In my opinion, maybe everybody's, munafiqeen are worse than kafir's. Show me where Ayatullah Khomeini said so. No Ayatullah **today **says that they are kafir.
fatwahs shouldn't be confined to nowadays.. they could even be from the time of Ali(A.S).. i don't remember but i do know for sure that ayatollah declared swahabis to be kafir..
Re: ismaili/aga khani
That still is completely wrong. No Ayatullah called them kafir. Hell, some of the followers of the Shah were non-religious Shia's, that doesn't make them kafirs, rather munafiqeen. You're probably mistaking it for some hardcore malang Shia.
HAHA..you are funny.. i don’t have to try HARD to give my imam a gud image.. he already has a gud image..u gotta worry about your imams, if u know what i mean…
i made this thread ONLY to clear misconceptions and LIES spread spread by ppl like you.. enjoy your paradise with your “islamic”
leadrs.. i’d rather go to hell than follow your ulema or imams..
This is the kind of attitude that is bullcrap. You just told us what this thread was for but your last sentence!? Very nice, fight everybody off? I honestly used to do that, but then I realized how dumb that is and how people would think worse of me. You really need to stop this.
This is the kind of attitude that is bullcrap. You just told us what this thread was for but your last sentence!? Very nice, fight everybody off? I honestly used to do that, but then I realized how dumb that is and how people would think worse of me. You really need to stop this.
i would fight off ppl who are not sincere wid the meaning of the thread rather are in the mood to spam.. only serious questions/comments deserve serious replies..
Re: ismaili/aga khani
That doesn't justify insulting them, their religion and the ulema who have studied since before you were born.
That doesn't justify insulting them, their religion and the ulema who have studied since before you were born.
oh rly?? if they can disrespect my imam then why can't I?? they also call muawiya a sahabi and pious man.. that sounds better?? and by the way i've heard their so called "ulema" cursing my imam on the loud speaker.. wow.. they r so knowledgeable and worthy of my respect..
Re: ismaili/aga khani
Lol in a debate you shouldn't be insulting anyone. They're just critics who have nothing right to say. Just ignore such comments.
*n yes i can't find any impressive thing in this farman .i think fridays qutba n a new zakir speech is more spiritual n impresive thn this *. every body is emphasizing for high qualification n for peace n prosperity.thats is something which is always been asked to do frm ours elders so nothing new in this farman .go n read sermons, letter ,duas,n saying of Prophet(saw) n imam Ali(as) imam hassan(as) ,imam hussain(as), imam zainul abedeen(as) imam mohd baqir(as), imam muse kazim(as) ,immali raza (as),imam taqi ul hadi(as) imam naqi(as) imam hassan askari (as)n imam mahdi (AS) n thn see ur imam farman u 'll find gr8 diff . why he roams in developing country why dont in poor country n miggle himself as common man in order to feel the same pain ppl have . why ur imam is so impressed by western methodolgy who r kafirs n munkir why not they imply n focuss on one which is given by our PROPHET(saw) n Ali(AS).why not focussing on islamic studies along wid other studies.i can't see any islamic scholar wid in u .who can guide u according to Quran n sunnah.
if fridays qutba n a new zakir's speech is more spiritual n impressive than this, then why's there chaos against the "islamic" regime of your beloved iran?? or why's there violence in iraq and lebanon for that matter?? why aren't all 12ers living in peace as taught by our beloved Huzoor (S.A.W) and all the Aima (A.S)?? ;)
if fridays qutba n a new zakir's speech is more spiritual n impressive than this, then why's there chaos against the "islamic" regime of your beloved iran?? or why's there violence in iraq and lebanon for that matter?? why aren't all 12ers living in peace as taught by our beloved Huzoor (S.A.W) and all the Aima (A.S)?? ;)
These posts are becoming really funny lol. Iraq and Lebanon lol, neitherof them have a majority Shia population smart one. Iraq is dealing with Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups that are bombing the shrines of our Imam's every year, they are not Shia, are they? And Lebanon, lol, Hezbullah and Lebanon is a whole different matter. I don't believe Zionists are Shia either.
I don't even understand how you came up with this reply to the bolded part.
so you r denying that people of iran these days are opposing and demonstrating against the regime?? i’ve personally seen a photo of khomeini under the feet of angry demonstrators… and it’s even funnier how u say iraq doesn’t has a shia majority.. and aren’t hassan nasrullah or muqtada al-sadr, both of whom are 12ers, not involved in violent activities?? plz answer all my questions rather than trying to dodge me by calling me funny…
Re: ismaili/aga khani
There are people who will oppose every government..Some peopleliving in America don't like America's government, when the Shah was in power, some liekd him, some didn't. When Musharraf was president, some liked him, some didn't. Do you really think Iran is 100% Shia? NO. Not every single human being is Shia, and out of those majority Shia, not all of them are religious either. Don't generalize. Iraq's government is Shia at the moment, that does not mean there is a Shia majority in the country itself. Nasrallah is Lebanese, not Iraqi. When Sayyed Nasrallah and Muqtada Al Sadr say that they are representatives of the Army of Mahdi, they do not mean that they are going to be the first people in the Imam's army. I do not know much about Muqtada but Nasrallah says that when the Imam comes, Hezbullah will help the Imam.
Some do believe though that Nasrallah will be a huge figure once the Imam re appears. There was a documentary about it.
There are people who will oppose every government..Some peopleliving in America don't like America's government, when the Shah was in power, some liekd him, some didn't. When Musharraf was president, some liked him, some didn't. Do you really think Iran is 100% Shia? NO. Not every single human being is Shia, and out of those majority Shia, not all of them are religious either. Don't generalize. Iraq's government is Shia at the moment, that does not mean there is a Shia majority in the country itself. Nasrallah is Lebanese, not Iraqi. When Sayyed Nasrallah and Muqtada Al Sadr say that they are representatives of the Army of Mahdi, they do not mean that they are going to be the first people in the Imam's army. I do not know much about Muqtada but Nasrallah says that when the Imam comes, Hezbullah will help the Imam.
Some do believe though that Nasrallah will be a huge figure once the Imam re appears. There was a documentary about it.
u are not getting my point.. if ayatollah's were to be the true hujjat of imam, why would ppl oppose them if they're competent enough to rule a land fairly.. i don't see ismailis going around demonstrating against what the imam says.. so if the ayatollah's represent your imam's teachings, then why should they be opposed by even the most liberal shias??? they are opposing the imam indirectly that way... and one of my quetions hasn't been answered yet.. it was: why don't we find reference of 12th imam of 12ers from the books of sects other than the 12ers themselves?? will read your post 2moro. gotta go now..
Re: ismaili/aga khani
Ayatullah's are not the hujjat..Imam's are..Some are opposed against because there are 3 major groups of Shias. The Usooli's who believe in the ayatullah and marjaiyyat, the Akhbaris who do not and the Imami's who are completely against it. If you look, the majority of Shia's follow the Ayatullah's, only a small number hate them. The Ayatullah's are not the hujjat, Imam Mahdi is. Ayatullah's are NOT the Imam's. Where did you get this!?
I have to go as well lol. There are PLENTY of ahadith from Sunni sources about the Imams only being 12 and Imam Mahdi, nothing more than that. InshaAllah I'll post when I come back.
ok.. now that everything is straight, here’s the main point of my whole discussion about 12ers.. if imam is the hujjat of Allah and Ayatollah’s are NOT the hujjat of imam, how can the ayatollah’s(whom majority of 12ers accept) be the voice of reason or true interpreters of quran and ahadith??? and if the hujjat of Allah i.e. the imam is not present in bodily form to guide the followers like your first 11 imams, how can u not go astray??? it’s like having a teacher who doesn’t come to teach his students for most of the school year…he is there, yet he is not there 
and plz take your time.. i won’t be posting 2moro coz 13 december is our imam’s birthday so we’ll have long tasbhis and all…
i’m not interested in charity work done by ur imam .i can narrate names of hundred ppl from jews ,christian , n even a common muslim ppl who did charity n r trusties of several organizations.Mother Treasa a very noble name. despite of all charity n being a such a humble person do u think she is the reflection of BIBI FATIMA(AS).here im asking something else n u r narrating a list of charity n meetings n appreciation details of ur imam.
n don’t tell me abt google .i not only read 12ers link but also very much impressed by real ahle sunnah that is hanafi, shafai, hunbali, n maliki.i even go to sunnis sites n get gr8 knoweldge from thr sites. so better dont guide me.i think i have searched n surfed islamic sites more thn u .now i think its u who really need to search for truth.
im not criticizing u ppl personaly.but here im try to get my answer that is why ur imam doesnt reflect to Prophet(saw) N ALI(as) n thr teaching . n what fikh do u obey in order to live according to quran n sunnah.i hope u ismailies will understand our question n rather thn roaming in iran n lebonan come straightly to the point.
Islam was recognised through the Prophet (saaws) and after him, Islam is recognised through his Imam.
Munsub e Imamate (The position of the Imam), by Shah Ismail Shaheed
The identification / recognition of the Imam of your time is therefore inexorably linked to deen. It is therefore incumbent on us to attain guidance from those Imams who are the absolute embodiment of Deen. They are perfection par excellence, they are the authorised guides and it is through them that we can seek guidance on all aspects of deen.
... and one of my quetions hasn't been answered yet.. it was: why don't we find reference of 12th imam of 12ers from the books of sects other than the 12ers themselves?? will read your post 2moro. gotta go now..
refernces from reknowns sunnis book.i had send u few links previously but u even don't care to read it .thats the reason u r again asking same Q any ways im pasting few saying of our Prophet(SA) from sunni's book.
We read in Bukhari and Muslim:
*Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet (s) saying:
"There will be Twelve Commanders." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraysh." *
1. Sahih al-Bukhari (English ver.) Hadith: 9.329. Sahih al-Bukhari, (Arabic), 4:165, Kitabul Ahkam. This hadeeth is narrated in many other sources as well, including:
2. Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal, Vol 5 p97 and 101
3. Umadathl Qari- page 271
4. Tafseer ibn Kathir Vol7 page 110
5. Jami Usul Volume 4 page 440 (Egypt)
6. Al Bidaya al Nihaya Volume 2 page 248
7. Sawaiqh al Muhriqa page 187
8. Hilayathul Awliya Volume 333
9. Tarkeeh Kabeer Volume 1 446
*The Prophet (s) said: "The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."
*Sahih Muslim. (English ver.), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10
Al-Juwayni, in his Farai’d as-Simtayn, reports these hadeeths:
**The Prophet (s) said: "I and Ali and Hasan and Husayn and nine of the descendants of Husayn are the purified ones and the inerrant."
The Prophet (s) said: "Certainly my Caliphs and my legatees and the Proofs of Allah upon his creatures after me are twelve. The first of them is my brother and the last of them is my (grand) son." He was asked: "O Messenger of Allah, who is your brother?" He said, "Ali ibn Abi Talib" Then they asked, "And who is your son?" The Holy Prophet (s) replied, "Al Mahdi, the one who will fill the earth with justice and equity like it would be brimming with injustice and tyranny. And by the One Who has raised me as a warner and a give of good tidings, even if a day remains for the life of this world, the Almighty Allah will prolong this day to an extent till he sends my son Mahdi, then he will make Ruhullah 'Isa ibn Maryam (a) to descend and pray behind him (Mahdi). And the earth will be illuminated by his radiance. And his power will reach to the east and the west."
The Prophet (s) said: "I am the chief of the Prophets and Ali ibn Abi Talib is the chief of successors, and after me my successors shall be twelve, the first of them being Ali ibn Abi Talib and the last of them being Al Mahdi." **
*Fara'id al-Simtayn, Beirut 1978, p. 160. *
Based on the Qur’an and these narrations, the import of which is mutawatir and cannot be doubted, we are now faced with the following results:
The narrations that insist upon the existence of Twelve Successors, and only Twelve, remove any doubts one might have that the Imam of the time might be the Imam of one of the other Shi’a sects, such as the Ismailis. The Ismaili lines of Imamate do not accord with the number twelve, and in fact do not even accord with their own sacred number of seven. The Ismailis believed that there would be seven Imams after the Prophet (s), yet all of the Ismaili lines have had many more Imams than seven. As such, there should not be any question about whether or not the current Imam (whom the Qur’an states must exist) is one of the Ismaili Imams. As for the Zaidis, they do not have an Imamate currently (being abolished in the sixties), and do not believe that Imamate is an office of necessity or appointed by God. As such, even if they had an Imam now, he would not be the type of witness, guide, and Imam foretold by the Holy Qur’an.
Well what better guide is there than the hadith of the Prophet (saaws): "The religion will continue to be established till the hour comes as there are twelve Caliphs over them, everyone of them coming from the Quraish".
Mishkat al Masabih: (Vol 4 p 576), Hadith 5
"The Islamic religion will continue, until the hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by 12 Caliphs, all of them being from Quraish"
Sahih Muslim, hadith number 4483, English translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui
Now just ponder over these ahadith The Islamic religion will continue - the Muslims can suffer oppression, go through hardships etc. but Islam will remain intact, with all it's conditions, qualities and virtues as long as there exist these 12 Khalifa's. Think carefully, deen is attached to the ruling of 12 Khalifa's. The number 12 is of significance here, it can not apply to political leadership, Jalaladeen Suyuti in Tarikh ul Khulufa recounts that there were 4 Rightly guides khalifas', 14 khalifas' from Banu Ummayah and 49 Khalifas' from the Banu Abbasids.
The number 12 does not fit anywhere here, because the Prophet (saaws) was not talking about leaders appointed by men. The Prophet (saaws) was referring to absolute religious leadership, through which deen can be identified, it started at Ghadhir Khumm when the Prophet (saaws) declared before a gathering of 124,000 Sahaba "Of whomsoever I am Maula (Master) Ali is his Maula".
It was here that the succession to Prophethood, Imamate was declared. What is crucial is the verse which descended following the sermon declaring Ali (as)'s Wilayat.
"Today, I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that you religion be Islam" (Quran 5:3).
This verse makes it clear Allah (swt) did not declare the perfection of religion, the completion of his bounties and his satisfaction until Hadhrath Ali (as)'s Imamate was formally declared at the end of the Prophetic mission.
Recognition of Islam is through these 12 Khalifa's. Khalifa means, "to follow" they are the Prophet (saaws)'s khalifas' but they are our Imams for they lead us. These are the 12 Imams the Prophet (saaws)'s authorised representatives.
At the same time the Prophet (saaws) told us which party would be saved, when he said "I am leaving amongst you two things, the Qur'an and my Ahlulbayt, if you follow them you will never go astray".
*1. Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al?Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matbaat MuhammadAli Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123
Abd Allah al?Hakim al?Naysaburi, al?Mustadrakala al-Sahihayn Dar al?Marifah li al?Tibaah wa al?Nashr: Beirut), vol. iii, pp. 109-110*The Prophet recounted this tradition to his Sahaba, which proves the Sahaba could go astray if they turned away from these two sources of guidance. When the Christians of Najran came to debate with the Prophet (saaws) he first presented Islam as a theory via verses from the Qur'an, when the challenge of mubahila was made to prove which Deen is correct, the Prophet (saaws) took with him those who presented Islam on a complete practical level, he took his Ahlulbayt and no one else.
"Recognition of the family of Muhammad is freedom from the Fire. Love of the family of Muhammad is crossing over the Sirat. Friendship for the family of Muhammad is safety from the fire".
*1. Ash-Shifa, page 142 by Qadi Iyad, (d.544 Hijri) English translation by Aisha Bewley, Madinah Press 1991.
Muslims are dependent on Islam while Islam is dependent on the Ahlulbayt, that is why when a prominent sahabi advised Imam Hussain (as) to pledge allegiance to Yazid the reply from the Imam was "by my doing so do you think Islam will remain on the earth?".
It is the Party which has taken hold of both the Qur'an the Ahlulbayt who are on the right path, for they have grasped the Qur'an which sets out deen and the Imams from Ahlulbayt who are walking commentaries of deen, through which Islam can be recognised.
... and one of my quetions hasn't been answered yet.. it was: why don't we find reference of 12th imam of 12ers from the books of sects other than the 12ers themselves?? will read your post 2moro. gotta go now..
refernces from reknowns sunnis book.i had send u few links previously but u even don't care to read it .thats the reason u r again asking same Q any ways im pasting few saying of our Prophet(SA) from sunni's book.
We read in Bukhari and Muslim:
*Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet (s) saying:
"There will be Twelve Commanders." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraysh." *
1. Sahih al-Bukhari (English ver.) Hadith: 9.329. Sahih al-Bukhari, (Arabic), 4:165, Kitabul Ahkam. This hadeeth is narrated in many other sources as well, including:
2. Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal, Vol 5 p97 and 101
3. Umadathl Qari- page 271
4. Tafseer ibn Kathir Vol7 page 110
5. Jami Usul Volume 4 page 440 (Egypt)
6. Al Bidaya al Nihaya Volume 2 page 248
7. Sawaiqh al Muhriqa page 187
8. Hilayathul Awliya Volume 333
9. Tarkeeh Kabeer Volume 1 446
*The Prophet (s) said: "The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."
*Sahih Muslim. (English ver.), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10
Al-Juwayni, in his Farai’d as-Simtayn, reports these hadeeths:
**The Prophet (s) said: "I and Ali and Hasan and Husayn and nine of the descendants of Husayn are the purified ones and the inerrant."
The Prophet (s) said: "Certainly my Caliphs and my legatees and the Proofs of Allah upon his creatures after me are twelve. The first of them is my brother and the last of them is my (grand) son." He was asked: "O Messenger of Allah, who is your brother?" He said, "Ali ibn Abi Talib" Then they asked, "And who is your son?" The Holy Prophet (s) replied, "Al Mahdi, the one who will fill the earth with justice and equity like it would be brimming with injustice and tyranny. And by the One Who has raised me as a warner and a give of good tidings, even if a day remains for the life of this world, the Almighty Allah will prolong this day to an extent till he sends my son Mahdi, then he will make Ruhullah 'Isa ibn Maryam (a) to descend and pray behind him (Mahdi). And the earth will be illuminated by his radiance. And his power will reach to the east and the west."
The Prophet (s) said: "I am the chief of the Prophets and Ali ibn Abi Talib is the chief of successors, and after me my successors shall be twelve, the first of them being Ali ibn Abi Talib and the last of them being Al Mahdi." **
*Fara'id al-Simtayn, Beirut 1978, p. 160. *
Based on the Qur’an and these narrations, the import of which is mutawatir and cannot be doubted, we are now faced with the following results:
The narrations that insist upon the existence of Twelve Successors, and only Twelve, remove any doubts one might have that the Imam of the time might be the Imam of one of the other Shi’a sects, such as the Ismailis. The Ismaili lines of Imamate do not accord with the number twelve, and in fact do not even accord with their own sacred number of seven. The Ismailis believed that there would be seven Imams after the Prophet (s), yet all of the Ismaili lines have had many more Imams than seven. As such, there should not be any question about whether or not the current Imam (whom the Qur’an states must exist) is one of the Ismaili Imams. As for the Zaidis, they do not have an Imamate currently (being abolished in the sixties), and do not believe that Imamate is an office of necessity or appointed by God. As such, even if they had an Imam now, he would not be the type of witness, guide, and Imam foretold by the Holy Qur’an.
Well what better guide is there than the hadith of the Prophet (saaws): "The religion will continue to be established till the hour comes as there are twelve Caliphs over them, everyone of them coming from the Quraish".
Mishkat al Masabih: (Vol 4 p 576), Hadith 5
"The Islamic religion will continue, until the hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by 12 Caliphs, all of them being from Quraish"
Sahih Muslim, hadith number 4483, English translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui
Now just ponder over these ahadith The Islamic religion will continue - the Muslims can suffer oppression, go through hardships etc. but Islam will remain intact, with all it's conditions, qualities and virtues as long as there exist these 12 Khalifa's. Think carefully, deen is attached to the ruling of 12 Khalifa's. The number 12 is of significance here, it can not apply to political leadership, Jalaladeen Suyuti in Tarikh ul Khulufa recounts that there were 4 Rightly guides khalifas', 14 khalifas' from Banu Ummayah and 49 Khalifas' from the Banu Abbasids.
The number 12 does not fit anywhere here, because the Prophet (saaws) was not talking about leaders appointed by men. The Prophet (saaws) was referring to absolute religious leadership, through which deen can be identified, it started at Ghadhir Khumm when the Prophet (saaws) declared before a gathering of 124,000 Sahaba "Of whomsoever I am Maula (Master) Ali is his Maula".
It was here that the succession to Prophethood, Imamate was declared. What is crucial is the verse which descended following the sermon declaring Ali (as)'s Wilayat.
"Today, I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that you religion be Islam" (Quran 5:3).
This verse makes it clear Allah (swt) did not declare the perfection of religion, the completion of his bounties and his satisfaction until Hadhrath Ali (as)'s Imamate was formally declared at the end of the Prophetic mission.
Recognition of Islam is through these 12 Khalifa's. Khalifa means, "to follow" they are the Prophet (saaws)'s khalifas' but they are our Imams for they lead us. These are the 12 Imams the Prophet (saaws)'s authorised representatives.
At the same time the Prophet (saaws) told us which party would be saved, when he said "I am leaving amongst you two things, the Qur'an and my Ahlulbayt, if you follow them you will never go astray".
*1. Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al?Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matbaat MuhammadAli Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123
Abd Allah al?Hakim al?Naysaburi, al?Mustadrakala al-Sahihayn Dar al?Marifah li al?Tibaah wa al?Nashr: Beirut), vol. iii, pp. 109-110*The Prophet recounted this tradition to his Sahaba, which proves the Sahaba could go astray if they turned away from these two sources of guidance. When the Christians of Najran came to debate with the Prophet (saaws) he first presented Islam as a theory via verses from the Qur'an, when the challenge of mubahila was made to prove which Deen is correct, the Prophet (saaws) took with him those who presented Islam on a complete practical level, he took his Ahlulbayt and no one else.
"Recognition of the family of Muhammad is freedom from the Fire. Love of the family of Muhammad is crossing over the Sirat. Friendship for the family of Muhammad is safety from the fire".
*1. Ash-Shifa, page 142 by Qadi Iyad, (d.544 Hijri) English translation by Aisha Bewley, Madinah Press 1991.
Muslims are dependent on Islam while Islam is dependent on the Ahlulbayt, that is why when a prominent sahabi advised Imam Hussain (as) to pledge allegiance to Yazid the reply from the Imam was "by my doing so do you think Islam will remain on the earth?".
It is the Party which has taken hold of both the Qur'an the Ahlulbayt who are on the right path, for they have grasped the Qur'an which sets out deen and the Imams from Ahlulbayt who are walking commentaries of deen, through which Islam can be recognised.
Re: ismaili/aga khani
Crap I'm sorry I was mistaken, ayatullah's are the hujjats. They are the hujjat because when Imam Mahdi went into Ghaybat ul Kubra, it's reported he said, "And as for the [new] events, then return to those who deal with our traditions, for they are my proof upon you, and I am the proof of Allah." Sorry again.
Ok, Trulyurs posted the ahadith that I was going to post lol. The main point is, 12. I don't see any Sunni Khalifa's ending at 12, and surely you don't have 12 Imams.
Re: ismaili/aga khani
@truly urs
12 commander .................. if u r using it 12 imam ......... than thats not right coz the word commander is generally related to military expidition...... and except hazrat ali , hazrat hasan and 2 some extent can be cald as commander but what about the rest 9 ?
12 caliph ............ except 4 hazrat ali and 2 some extent hazrat hasan, rest of the 10 cud not become caliph ................ ........... they had got no authority they cud not enforce the shariah and jurisprudence the 12e'r follow.