is there any space for reconciliation here?

Lifestyle Relationships
41

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

I am so sorry to hear of this but it sounded like the family and girl had made up their mind to end the marriage a while ago.

It takes two to tango and if both sides are not mutually invested in a relationship...it wont matter how hard your brother tries. :(

42

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

well, this is what happens to nice guys, multinick.

you get tons of people shouting about oppression of women in the pakistani society but the fact of the matter is, cases like these are VERY common in the educated urban pakistan. men on the defensive, women on the offensive. if everything else fails, they can play the bechari-larki card, and come out a winner, in any case.

sad state of affairs, and a narrative hardly ever told.

43

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

It takes two to tango. Even though (based on the OP's posts) the bhabi seems more in the wrong......there are STILL 2 sides to a story.

"Bechari-larki"??? In our culture....the consequences of divorce are usually harsher for the larki....it's more of a stigma for women. Even in cases....where the women may be more of the victim....they tend to be questioned and doubted more society....it's not uncommon to hear "Why couldn't you keep your man? What is it that you did that made your husband leave you?" If a woman is divorced...and she has unmarried sisters.....society unfairly questions if they would make "good wives" themselves and it's seen as something that would hinder rishtas. It's compartively easier for a divorced guy to get remarried than a divorced woman. SO, I disagree with your idea of playing the "bechari-larki" and coming out a "WINNER"....it ain't that easy. And that's a lesson that the bhabi in this story is gonna learn the hard way.

44

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

^ rv, you have to see it to believe it. i presume you are not in pakistan, and have not seen this happen to someone close.

i dont know where to start, explaining the educated pakistani girl and her approach to divorce these days. i will be accused of being judgmental and what not, if i spoke my mind here.

and the evergreen bechari-larki card? you have to use it to believe it!

multinick, as others have said, girl seems to have decided upon divorce since long. her mind is NOT in this marriage. there must be other goals that she wants to achieve. like may be pursuing her career in another country since she is a doc. sometimes girls realize these things after getting married, and find ways to get out. your brother must move on now, without getting teary!

45

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

Wane, I don't agree with the idea of putting up with a miserable situation for life and also hurting other such as your children (if you have any). "Educated" women tend to be more aware of their Islamic rights....and also having the means to support themselves....they don't have to put up with a marriage that's dysfunctional beyond repair. While I see that as a good thing....I also don't support the idea of wanting a divorce over the smallest of things and treating marriage like a game. And you're wrong, Wane, I have seen this happen to someone close (who is highly educated)....who does live in Pakistan...and even though the women might be at fault (as well)...the consequences tend to be harsher for them.

46

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

would tend to agree with RV...whether the woman was a victim or not... the stigma of divorce has always seemed harsher for women more so than men ....iss baat mein zamaana aaj bhi aurat k liye nahin badla

47

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

this part. this is what's happening in plenty of divorces in cities like Lahore. divorces for fun. its like there is no more a sense of responsibility in girls. a lot of girls getting married are NOT ready for marriage, even though they may be in their late 20s.

and you know rv, all counter-arguments to what men say and feel, dont need to start with the miserable-life-islamic-rights mantra. there are other situations that are developing in the pakistani society.

48

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

^
I'm not saying that there is only one kind of situation in Pakistan or anywhere else for that matter, Wane. I'm also not going to dump every educated woman in Lahore or elsewhere in the same cattegory. There are people who abuse the right to divorce....and there are people understand their rights and consider them carefully and this includes both men and women. What I did disagree with you...was the view that women come out as "winners"....it's tougher for them in our culture. A marriage involves the efforts of two people and who knows what goes on in their homes....2 sides to a story and often times we don't have a complete understanding of both sides...and this can make it hard to judge who is more right/wrong...more responsible/less responsible.

49

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

I have observed the same thing as wane said…you will all have tamaaters ready but…still…
getting divorced is somehow not seen something to worry about…its something which sort of completes the persona of an independent powerful woman..who has climbed the highest of the obstacles i.e divorce…and now she is unstoppable or something…

now its time for tamaaters…you may all go ahead :hehe:

50

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

Many women in Pakistan divorcing for 'fun'?? I find that hard to believe, no matter how wealthy their families might be..

**Can you give some examples? **I'm hoping you're not thinking anything short of being beaten to a pulp is something a woman should have to put up with..

RV is right.. two of my uncles' wives are divorcees so I've seen first-hand the way more blame is attached to them (one of them was previously married to a physically abusive alcoholic, the other had to put up with 'just' verbal abuse (perhaps she is one of those you would think divorced for 'fun')..

51

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

The divorce rate is increasing in society in general…we all know that…but why only connect this to women, Nomi? Hmm? Do men not initiate or seek a divorce? And…IF…a guy does seek a divorce…how is he viewed?

There are educated and independent women who are sensible about their marriages…and there are those who aren’t. Some of them may have valid reasons for seeking a divorce…and you can’t just say that all of them do so to “achieve some height or to come across as unstoppable.” Sure, some people my be careless about divorce…but usually it’s not a pleasant situation for either party.

So, you’ve connected a woman getting a divorce to her showing that she’s powerful/unstoppable, what have you. It almost carries a mocking sort of tone. So if it’s a guy who seeks a divorce…what intention would you connect that to? How should that be perceived?

52

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

.

53

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

I didn't make i myself clear i guess...

I wasn't talking about all the women.....i was talking about a section of society...highly educated upper middle/ upper class ladies.....

Sure there are loads of reasons...by both men and women.....i didn't refute that.....i was merely pointing out an emerging trend here in pakistan...... where the said type of ladies....don't think of divorce as something significant and do get divorced over petty issues....

because in rest of the society....even divorce for valid reasons is still looked down upon and women are the ones usually who have to put up with it.....i was pointing out the exception to that general rule..

54

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

When a guy seeks a divorce....people don't entertain the thought that he's trying to be "unstoppable or reaching some height" because desi society doesn't judge men as harshly for it. But since our society penalizes women more for getting a divorce....and since there are people that feel that she should avoid divorce and stick things out (even if she has valid reasons).........that's why it's thought of her "trying to reach a height" if she does seek it. How sad.

If society's views were less rigid....would we possibly be more understanding of women getting a divorce? Would we be more open to considering that perhaps she had valid reasons....and not quickly jump to the notion that she's being maadran? LOL

55

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

^ you are talking about ALL the women........i am talking about a certain section.......you can't compare the two. anyways i am out....peace

56

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

^Now you're talking about a certain section, Nomi. Before you hadn't specified it. Even with Wane....there were generalizations.

Although I don't think I'm wrong here. I'm sure that there are some people who really would automatically jump to the conclusion that a woman (and she doesn't necessarily have to belong to the particular section that you're talking about)....sought a divorce because she's being modern. Or maybe the people within that certain class might assume that about her without knowing all the details of the marriage. The root cause, I think, is the differences in how society treats the issue of divorce when it comes to both genders.

57

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

rv, were you educated at lums?

58

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

read post #53........i talked about the 'section'......

you can blame society on all things.......but whats there to see is there to see........
you are talking about really oppressed women with valid complaints who had to get divorce to live a decent life........you somehow assume that all women have the same issues........while I am talking about those who do what i wrote in my post and what wane mentioned........ so there is a fundamental difference in how you are approaching the topic compared to how i am or wane is.........

P.S......we are going totally offtopic.....so i would stop now.

59

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

So where are these examples of Pakistani women divorcing for 'fun'?

Educated and/or wealthy middle + upper-class women might be more likely to divorce than those from poorer families but most sane ppl can see that's usually because they're less likely to be totally dependent on their husbands and/or their families might be more likely to support them rather than them being left to fend for themselves.

Bottom line is they divorce because as RV already mentioned they're more aware that they have rights and are less likely to need to stay in bad marriages, not because it's 'fun' or some sort of weird fashion to show how 'modern' they are.. Do ppl even realise how ridiculous that sounds??

60

Re: is there any space for reconciliation here?

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