Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

[STONECOLD]

@muqawwee123:9808889

[quote="“khoji, post:27, topic:297309"”]

What happens on dargahs, and what those gaddi-nasheen do, have nothing to do with sufism, and all to do with our country’s third-class backward illiterate culture.

but again these are the centuries old traditions which have been termed and are the remains of Sufism. Otherwise, sufism with true spirit probably doesn’t exist now.
[/quote]

Are you sure? Have you ever sat with one who follows the path of tasawuff? They will fill your heart with the love of Allah Swt and RasulAllah…

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@STONECOLD

Are you sure? Have you ever sat with one who follows the path of tasawuff? They will fill your heart with the love of Allah Swt and RasulAllah…

Yes. I’ve set in the company of gaddi nasheen…and sorry to say they were just disgusted.. The way they depart people from teachings of Islam is simply unbearable. But again probably they don’t follow the true path of either deen or tasawwuf.. they are just running their business places (gaddis, makhdoomiyat)

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

As far as the decline of sufism in Pakistan is concerned, there are a few things that come to my mind.

1. Some of the concepts that they keep on harping like Noor/Bashar etc are not easily understood by the public

2. Peeri Mureedi is now seen as another shape of slavery, pretty much like the feudal system

3. No centralized bodies to overlook the different sufi orders. The deobandis are very much organized in this domain as they have various organizations (JUI’s, JEM, SSP/ASWJ/LEJ, TTP, Tableeghi Jamaat etc).

4. No state patronage, which I believe has contributed in increasing crimes in and around the shrines

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@Ali_Syed

As far as the decline of sufism in Pakistan is concerned, there are a few things that come to my mind.

1. Some of the concepts that they keep on harping like Noor/Bashar etc are not easily understood by the public

Add concepts like wahdat ul wajood and hama ost

2. Peeri Mureedi is now seen as another shape of slavery, pretty much like the feudal system

and why insistence on peer i mureedi.. Its like a divide of catholic and Protestant Christianity.

3. No centralized bodies to overlook the different sufi orders. The deobandis are very much organized in this domain as they have various organizations (JUI’s, JEM, SSP/ASWJ/LEJ, TTP, Tableeghi Jamaat etc).

Tableeghi jama’at walas got a common feature with sufis.. seclusion

4. No state patronage, which I believe has contributed in increasing crimes in and around the shrines

state patronize raqs o suroor, bhatta on these shrines.

[STONECOLD]

@muqawwee123:9809047

[quote="“STONECOLD, post:144, topic:296863"”]

Are you sure? Have you ever sat with one who follows the path of tasawuff? They will fill your heart with the love of Allah Swt and RasulAllah…

Yes. I’ve set in the company of gaddi nasheen…and sorry to say they were just disgusted.. The way they depart people from teachings of Islam is simply unbearable. But again probably they don’t follow the true path of either deen or tasawwuf.. they are just running their business places (gaddis, makhdoomiyat)
[/quote]

I agree.
However, I am not talking about those gaddi nasheen. I am talking about those people who when you glance at their faces you are reminded of Allah Swt. Faces that remind you of the adab our Beloved RasulAllah. People who see RasulAllah in their dreams and see Him when they are awake also.
To others here calling Mullahs jahil. Please don’t. The ulama are the waritheen of the Prophets.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@STONECOLD

I agree.
However, I am not talking about those gaddi nasheen. I am talking about those people who when you glance at their faces you are reminded of Allah Swt. Faces that remind you of the adab our Beloved RasulAllah. People who see RasulAllah in their dreams and see Him when they are awake also.
To others here calling Mullahs jahil. Please don’t. The ulama are the waritheen of the Prophets.

but its very difficult to trace such people. Most of the people are simply behroopiyas like Tahir ul Qadri.

[STONECOLD]

@muqawwee123:9809094

[quote="“STONECOLD, post:1597, topic:290036"”]

I agree.
However, I am not talking about those gaddi nasheen. I am talking about those people who when you glance at their faces you are reminded of Allah Swt. Faces that remind you of the adab our Beloved RasulAllah. People who see RasulAllah in their dreams and see Him when they are awake also.
To others here calling Mullahs jahil. Please don’t. The ulama are the waritheen of the Prophets.

but its very difficult to trace such people. Most of the people are simply behroopiyas like Tahir ul Qadri.
[/quote]

It isn’t. You just have to look hard enough.
What have you just gained by calling your brother in Islam a behroopiya behind his back?

[STONECOLD]

@muqawwee123:9809094

[quote="“STONECOLD, post:1597, topic:290036"”]

I agree.
However, I am not talking about those gaddi nasheen. I am talking about those people who when you glance at their faces you are reminded of Allah Swt. Faces that remind you of the adab our Beloved RasulAllah. People who see RasulAllah in their dreams and see Him when they are awake also.
To others here calling Mullahs jahil. Please don’t. The ulama are the waritheen of the Prophets.

but its very difficult to trace such people. Most of the people are simply behroopiyas like Tahir ul Qadri.
[/quote]

And Tahir ul Qadiri is not the leader of the Qadiri tareeqa BTW.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@STONECOLD

And Tahir ul Qadiri is not the leader of the Qadiri tareeqa BTW.

You know this, I know this, but majority of his mureedain don’t know this. This is how people exploit innocent people.

[STONECOLD]

@muqawwee123:9809131

[quote="“STONECOLD, post:16, topic:297200"”]

And Tahir ul Qadiri is not the leader of the Qadiri tareeqa BTW.

You know this, I know this, but majority of his mureedain don’t know this. This is how people exploit innocent people.
[/quote]

Of course. They should find out all the facts about anyone before they acquire his company. And then decide.

[queer]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@khoji

Qawwali is hamd/naat in melody and music, which is present in many Muslim countries in the world. Not just subcontinent. There is no link with Bhajan or whatever.

bhajan? qawwali? err?

---

Restored attachments:

[Iconoclast]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

Sufism originated in Arabia

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@Iconoclast

Sufism originated in Arabia

I also read that some sufi orders trace back to Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA)

[queer]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@Iconoclast

Sufism originated in Arabia

i highly doubt that. mystics were common in iran/central asia before islam, and were of many faiths.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

^Dude mysticism and Sufism are not same.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

anything that is against the Islamic beliefs is NOT forbidden. what is forbidden then? all those practices which run contrary to Qur’aan and Sunna…some practices have foind it’s way into Islam which we term as Bid’aat. Bid’a has NO place in Islam so all those practices which are innovations must be curbed/shunned.

You are on internet which clearly the prophet nor the sahabba practiced in their times, so off you go and log off from this site!

[Iconoclast]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@muqawwee123

I also read that some sufi orders trace back to Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA)

All sufi orders to n one way or another can be traced to Arabia, might be a bit of surprise for neoliberals who try to equate wahabism with Arabism and Sufism with indigeneousism.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@queer

i highly doubt that. mystics were common in iran/central asia before islam, and were of many faiths.

Agree. Its probably impossible to alienate a religion and culture of land in totality.

The question is about the extent of cultural impact on a religion in particular area. Some people believe that Islam in India got extra influence of culture and after passing of centuries its difficult to categorise various traditions as cultural or religious.

The connected question is whether it was an unusual thing? Can a particular religion be followed in same manner in two different societies one being nomadic and other being settled Agrarian land?

@muqawwee123

There have been lot of discussion and people keep on pointing so many things that are now considered as integral part of faith in Indo-Pak’s Muslims which are taken from culture.

Sufis and their followers are blamed for introducing many of these things to Muslims. Do you agree?

Was there any other way to spread faith in India without accepting some of cultural aspects of people living in India?

Does Islam is totally against cultural practices of people?

[psyah]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

anything that is against the Islamic beliefs is NOT forbidden. what is forbidden then? all those practices which run contrary to Qur’aan and Sunna…some practices have foind it’s way into Islam which we term as Bid’aat. Bid’a has NO place in Islam so all those practices which are innovations must be curbed/shunned.

With respect I don’t think you know how to define bidat … inevitably your definition itself will be a bidat according to the criteria you have set for it.

[psyah]

Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?

@muqawwee123

I was listening to Dr Israr Ahmed and he made a point that Sikh or British rulers promoted Khanqah culture (with all qawwali, mehfil e sama culture) as they found it not producing people who could raise voice against their policies. It appears that Sufis from those Khanqah never gave tough time to oppressors.

I’ll come back to this point …