Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
dus bibiyon ki kahani is not sufi related.
Qawwali is hamd/naat in melody and music, which is present in many Muslim countries in the world. Not just subcontinent. There is no link with Bhajan or whatever.
I think somebody is misguiding you.
Not exactly.. The kind of Qawwali that is present in India was invented during Nizam u din Auliya / Ameer Khusro period and quite distinguished from nasheed/ naat prevalent in other Muslim countries.
Dus bibiyon ki kahani might not be sufi tradition, but it is followed in those circles who are very much into sufiism (to be specific Barelvis).. This is very much similar with Hindu Punch Kaniya and I don't think that this 5/10 beebiyon ki kahani is that popular in other Muslim countries.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
That is a preposterous comment.
Please read about the concept of Love which Sufis used to have.
What love is this Sufi talking about? The love for Sikhs or the love for British?
*tere ishq ne dera mere dil wich keeta
bhar ke zehr piyala mein ta aap hi peeta
*
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Not exactly.. The kind of Qawwali that is present in India was invented during Nizam u din Auliya / Ameer Khusro period and quite distinguished from nasheed/ naat prevalent in other Muslim countries.
Qawwali is a subcontinent thing because it was invented here. Obviously it is distinguishable from Sufi music traditions from other parts of world. But it is wrong to say that other Muslim countries did not have Islamic music traditions.
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Dus bibiyon ki kahani might not be sufi tradition,
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Need to stop right there. Yes, it is NOT a sufi tradition. So please don't associate it with sufism.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The video that I posted above, the guy believed that the third phase of sufis were very introvert (focused on batin side of things) which disconnected them from dunya hence resulted in their downfall. Another dangerous thing is that if you follow deen or not your peer will save you.
As far as the peeri murreedi is concerned, it has different levels. Like Mureeds do bait at the hand of peers, taleban kind of people do bait at the hand of their ameers (which was a strange one for me).
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Qawwali is a subcontinent thing because it was invented here. Obviously it is distinguishable from Sufi music traditions from other parts of world. But it is wrong to say that other Muslim countries did not have Islamic music traditions.
Need to stop right there. Yes, it is NOT a sufi tradition. So please don't associate it with sufism.
who said that other Muslim countries don't have music traditions. I have quoted dervish's of Konya and their dance above. The point is here in sub-continent these things are practiced in such a way that it is difficult to distinguish them from practices followed by other religions.
I don't agree to Saudis practice of razing historical places, but they give excuse of Indian/ Pakistani zairain doing somethings on these places which they consider shirk. They don't have this issue to that extent with Muslims from other countries.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
That was in connection with the khanqah culture... which is just like opium and for which Iqbal has said:
Why is it like opium? Do you think all those Muslim sufis like Bhittai, Romi, Shahbaz Qalandar, Moinuddin Chishti etc. were all promoting opium culture?
You seem to be looking for any excuse to criticize or abuse sufism. First you wrongly claimed that sufi love results in love for Sikh and British. I told you that Sufi love is the love for God only. But instead of accepting it you are now calling them kind of drug-addicts because they call for Love of God.
I tell you, such people "addicted" to love of God are far far better than those "amal se ghair farigh" fasadi mullahs whose jihad know no boundaries.
Then you also claimed wrongly that 'das bibiyon ki kahani' is sufi related, and then contradicting yourself that it is not related to sufism.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The video that I posted above, the guy believed that the third phase of sufis were very introvert (focused on batin side of things) which disconnected them from dunya hence resulted in their downfall. Another dangerous thing is that if you follow deen or not your peer will save you.
As far as the peeri murreedi is concerned, it has different levels. Like Mureeds do bait at the hand of peers, taleban kind of people do bait at the hand of their ameers (which was a strange one for me).
Rohbaniyat (seculsion) was not allowed in Islam, but many sufi practiced and promoted this on foot-steps of Hindu jogis
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Why is it like opium? Do you think all those Muslim sufis like Bhittai, Romi, Shahbaz Qalandar, Moinuddin Chishti etc. were all promoting opium culture?
You seem to be looking for any excuse to criticize or abuse sufism. First you wrongly claimed that sufi love results in love for Sikh and British. I told you that Sufi love is the love for God only. But instead of accepting it you are now calling them kind of drug-addicts because they call for Love of God.
I tell you, such people addicted to love of God are far far better than those "amal se ghair farigh" fasadi mullahs whose jihad know no boundaries.
So what are the contributions of gaddi nasheen and makhdoom to society if Mullah are fasadi for all purposes? I don't say that message of Bhitai, Rumi was opium.. but what is prevalent on their dargahs.. What has been promoted in the name of sufism is opium for nations.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
The point is here in sub-continent these things are practiced in such a way that it is difficult to distinguish them from practices followed by other religions.
I think the way Qawwal is practiced is pretty unique from all other religions in subcontinent. Hindus have not adopted Qawwali precisely because it is very different from the way they perform bhajan and stuff.
On the other hand, Hindus did adopt ways of khariji extremists by making their own hatred filled organizations like RSS.
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I don't agree to Saudis practice of razing historical places, but they give excuse of Indian/ Pakistani zairain doing somethings on these places which they consider shirk. They don't have this issue to that extent with Muslims from other countries.
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So if there were not Indian/Pakistani zaaireen then they would not have demolished Jannatul Baqi?!
No way. It is strict Wahhabi thing. They did it even in Syria with Hazrat Hujr ibn Addi's shrine.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
So what are the contributions of gaddi nasheen and makhdoom to society if Mullah are fasadi for all purposes? I don't say that message of Bhitai, Rumi was opium.. but what is prevalent on their dargahs.. What has been promoted in the name of sufism is opium for nations.
What happens on dargahs, and what those gaddi-nasheen do, have nothing to do with sufism, and all to do with our country's third-class backward illiterate culture.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
What happens on dargahs, and what those gaddi-nasheen do, have nothing to do with sufism, and all to do with our country's third-class backward illiterate culture.
but again these are the centuries old traditions which have been termed and are the remains of Sufism. Otherwise, sufism with true spirit probably doesn't exist now.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Rohbaniyat (seculsion) was not allowed in Islam, but many sufi practiced and promoted this on foot-steps of Hindu jogis
Even the word 'Rahbaniyat' itself implies that it originated from Arabs. If it had originated from India/Pakistan then we should have some local word for it.
I am not sure if Sufis promoted it.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
Even the word 'Rahbaniyat' itself implies that it originated from Arabs. If it had originated from India/Pakistan then we should have some local word for it.
having an Arab origin doesn't mean that it was allowed in Islam. right?
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
It was prevalent in all muslim countries in 15-16 century.
Monarchy also prevailed in all Muslim countries, but not a system according to Islamic teachings. There are specific verses in Quran which negates the concept of Rohbaniyat in very specific words.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I personally think Sufism should revive and reform (purge those acts which could contradict with the religion) itself in Pakistan, they can gain some space now especially with most of extremism/terrorism in the country being traced to a particular school of thought.
Re: Is Sufi Islam a compromise with Indian Culture?
I personally think Sufism should revive and reform (purge those acts which could contradict with the religion) itself in Pakistan, they can gain some space now especially with most of extremism/terrorism in the country being traced to a particular school of thought.
agree, the very principles of Sufism (harmony and peace) should be promoted without making mockery of Islam by bringing jumbo size cakes on Birth date of Prophet and making duplicates of Khana e kaba and roza e rasool and doing tawaaf on roads to celebrate love of the prophet.
