Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
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kiyooo ap koi prince charles hooo kiya 
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Salam.
Folks living outside of Pakistan have created their own networks there, networks that help them feel home/desified. I as a Pakistani would feel proud, nothing less. Some things don't agree with you, fine. You've changed, fine. You kinda like it there? Good on you/Happy for you sister.
But a few points i'd respectfully wish to disagree with. I see generalizations again, you see Pakistanis as the ones who're trying to enforce their views on to others, you think they think you hate Pakistan, and you think we're trying to convince people to come back. Untrue.
Okay....I'll grant you that.
This debate was never about whats better, this side of the pond or that. Basically It was about raising your kids out of Pakistan. And if thats what you want, I repeat theres no argument, its your ultimate right/choice as a parent. Just don't go around blaming Pakistan for not being good enough, because when it comes to being good enough, it IS good enough.
If a kid who attended a local school in Pakistan can go and scoop out 3-4 oscars in consecutive years, then why are not the educational institutions that deserve to be considered good enough, good enough?
One example out of many.
I respectfully disagree. It isn't good enough. There are many aspects of life that my child could never enjoy if she was growing up in Pakistan and I held the same middle-class status that I have here in Canada.
Perhaps my child isn't the brilliant star that may end up being the shining example that scoops up 3-4 oscars in consecutive years.....I'm certainly not going to make life changing decisions on a gamble like that. And one example out of many is not good enough either. Especially when it is so specific and isolated.
So you have corruption in Pakistan? You have drug/alcohol abuses in the west, racism/discrimination. no? I can go on youtube and link you to several videos where a Muslim is being treated unfairly in the west. On the contrary, could you link me up with half as much videos where Christians are being treated unfairly, in Pakistan.
I have yet to visit a place where corruption or nepotism does not exist.
But I am not so blind as to say that Pakistan does not have a greater amount of corruption.
When I go about my daily life in Canada I have no need for sifarish or rishwat.....this is not the case in Karachi.
There are drug and alcohol abuses in Pakistan as well......there is racism and discrimination there too. Just because you can find youtube videos documenting such cases in the west doesn't mean that they don't exist in Pakistan. It simply means that there are fewer means for the victims to upload them.....and perhaps, much more dire consequences for them if they actually do.
Someone said, I would not go shopping alone in Karachi considering the insecurity situation. So would you be comfortable going shopping alone in a country where every 7th female is raped?
Someone has already addressed this with a very valid response.....suffice it to say that I have been out shopping in Karachi alone about four years back.....didn't have any issues or fears......but would I encourage someone to do this, not likely.
Fact of the matter is that if my rights are violated in Pakistan, I have little means to seek justice, whereas, in the west, there is always a way.....
"Other thing I fear, they won't have any sense of respecting other religious beliefs and cultures. I want them to visit Pakistan often but staying there forever is a no no. Oh and also there are very few libraries in Pakistan, in fact, no libraries for children."
Defence Library, Creek club, Country club. You'll find 3 fully equipped libraries within a 2 mile radius in Karachi. The 1st point is however an opinion and definitely not mine.
What is the average family income of families that are able to visit these libraries and clubs? Are they lower to middle class? I'm curious...enlighten me.
Where I choose to live in Canada, a library is in every single community and every single child is able to have a membership.......regardless of their financial, social or ethnic status. Can Pakistan say the same?
Nobody comes to bad-mouth their own homeland.......but we are not blind either.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
I don't understand how can people forget different factors when they start comparing 2 things. No one is even thinking here that unlike students who live in UK/US/CAN/AUS already have access to those high-class universities and they can pay for them since they are in the very society which gives them enough financial support. Unlike Pakistan.
If number of students studying in international universities is some "ultimate" factor for you then would you consider Saudia as some really "educated" country who gives full financial support to every other student. At least 10% of international students here in Canada are saudi .. or even more and i know their capabilities. Any student who goes to UET/PU is far better than them but Pakistani students don't have that opportunity.
Do you really really have a clue - what are you talking about ?
first of all - I didn't compare any education system , I simply put it through a litmus test ... Like FDI , inflation rate and Budget deficit are main factors while analyzing any economy , Similarly the number of international student is one of the key factors , once we start rating an education system...
and None of you has been able to answer my simple question so far ....
If you read your own second paragraph , I hope you will realize that you are answering - sawal Gandum , jawab chana ..
And please step out of your Punjab University and UET mentality - the is a world beyond that ...
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
Since we were discussing an AVERAGE man, thats why I HAD to come this level .. anyways .. something for you
Source: [http://www.britishcouncil.org/eumd-information-background-pakistan.htm
A](http://www.britishcouncil.org/eumd-information-background-pakistan.htm)nd these stats are for UK/US/Australia .. no one mentioned anything related to Students in Can and other Europian countries. It clearly explains that things are changing .. ..
Looking forward to your next lame thing ..
P.S:
before saying that these numebr are less .. Please count the %age rather counting the exact figures.
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
Haha - i hope you are really not that stupid - I bet you are just trying something special in this thread …
Still you didnt answer my question - which is
How many International students we get in pakistan per year ? English]
Pakistan mein salaNa kitne Ghair Mulki Talib-e-ilm aaTay haiN ? Urdu]
Hik saal Vich kinne Ghair Mulki Pakistan mein paraN waste andey aiN ? Punjabi ]
is that enough , or you need my question translated in other domestic langagaues , such as sindhi , Balochi and Pashto as well : ) - feel free to ask , if needed …
And the lame thing is -** tell me the number of students coming into Pakistan - not going out of Pakistan** , and your reply indirectly proves my point that they head off in search of a better education system 
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
I hope you are not talking about the U.S. Because that does not happen here. yes, we have racist folks here but your statistics are way off.
For the first point in bold, are you seriously comparing how Christians are treated in Pakistan with how muslims are treated in the west? have you been here? You have laws that discriminate against other religious minorities, are you kidding me? When was the last time you heard people killing Muslims here? Pakistan ki to baat hi choro! wahan to sab hi mar rahe hain..They set automobiles and tires on fire in scorching heat because they are protesting. Seriously? lol..
For the second point in bold, the definition of rape here is very different. A woman just has to say no for an intercouse to be considered rape. Pakistan main to aatay jatay marketon main larkiyon ko cherte rehte hain... sexual harrassment jesi to koi soch hi nahi hai wahan ke logon main. Aur wese bhi how many rapes are actually reported in Pakistan? Not many and do you know why? Please check your Hudood Ordinance laws.
I was referring to the West, but hey, since you're the 1st to mention, lets use that for an example. so what I understand from the 1st part, in the U.S. there are racist folks but racism has no presence there. Enlightening.
Bringing in the Christianity point may have seemed like it was up for comparisons, but it actually wasn't. An example it was, yes.
Last time I heard a Muslim being killed in the U.S you ask? Nazish Manzoor in New Jersey. 3 Muslims killed in the london riots. May Allah swt bless their souls.
Again no comparisons, just examples.
Arzz hai, Pakistan main cherrney ka rujhaan zyada hai ban iss but rape key, aur agar aapney notice kiyaa hou tou cherr chaar bhi har jagah nahi hotee, Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad (I'd be referring to the likes of Zamzama or Liberty) main bahut bahut kum hotaa hai. Agar aap stats uthaa k dekhain tou U.S. main chair chaar kum, rape zyada nazar ataa hai. Mainay nahi kaha, duniya kehtee hai. Main sirf eik example aapki achee si khidmat main paish kur raha tha, nazariyat thoday mukhtalif hou suktey hain. Rahee baat reporting ki, manaa bahut sey rape cases report nahi huwey houngey Pakistan main. Albataa unnsey thoraay kum cases aisay bhi houngey jo U.S. main bhi report nahi huwey houngey.
Btw, I can link you up with this American forum I frequently visit. Its basically a bodybuilding forum with millions of hits in a week. They have this "Misc" section and there people in the U.S. have pictures up of girls who they noticed say in the gym or in a store. Girls don't know, but they're actually getting them rated 1/10 and asking things such as "Should I hit that when I go tomm?" and the ones who respond say stuff such as "Aaahh man she's a peach, nehh" Or "I'd munch on her like i munch on my Oats" on and on. PM if you wish.
Again they may be Christians, but saying cherr chaar does not exist in the U.S. I'd disagree.
Peace.
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
so we are back to square one. i.e. discussion of education system. I believe that has already been discussed earleir that education system (due to our beloved leaders) isn’t good. I duno why you are keep dragging one thing .. ..
I don’t want to dig deep into this since people would again come back to the “things” already discussed but have a look at it .. International Center for Chemical and Biological Sciences - Wikipedia
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
I was referring to the West, but hey, since you're the 1st to mention, lets use that for an example. so what I understand from the 1st part, in the U.S. there are racist folks but racism has no presence there. Enlightening.
You said it I didn't.. I said there are racists here but hate crimes aren't as frequent. The intensity of racism is nothing what you imagine. We call republicans/teabaggers racist, but they aren't exactly the KKK clan.
[QUOTE]
Bringing in the Christianity point may have seemed like it was up for comparisons, but it actually wasn't. An example it was, yes.
Last time I heard a Muslim being killed in the U.S you ask? Nazish Manzoor in New Jersey. 3 Muslims killed in the london riots. May Allah swt bless their souls.
[/QUOTE]
So it's so few you can count on your fingers...And what about the number of people that are killed in Pakistan everyday? How do you even compare the death of two people with the death of a thousand folks? It makes no sense to compare the two.
[QUOTE]
Again no comparisons, just examples.
Arzz hai, Pakistan main cherrney ka rujhaan zyada hai ban iss but rape key, aur agar aapney notice kiyaa hou tou cherr chaar bhi har jagah nahi hotee, Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad (I'd be referring to the likes of Zamzama or Liberty) main bahut bahut kum hotaa hai. Agar aap stats uthaa k dekhain tou U.S. main chair chaar kum, rape zyada nazar ataa hai. Mainay nahi kaha, duniya kehtee hai. Main sirf eik example aapki achee si khidmat main paish kur raha tha, nazariyat thoday mukhtalif hou suktey hain. Rahee baat reporting ki, manaa bahut sey rape cases report nahi huwey houngey Pakistan main. Albataa unnsey thoraay kum cases aisay bhi houngey jo U.S. main bhi report nahi huwey houngey.
[/QUOTE]
Nahi, jo cher char wahan hoti hai woh baton wali cher char nahi hoti. Won nazar se hi insaan ko nangah kerdete hain. Chalo woh bhi choro, woh to baqaida touch kerke nikal jaate hain. Unko chappal utar ke maarne ka bhi mauqa nahi milta. Aisi ghatiya kisam ki cherchar yahan kisi ki baghair ijazat ke nahi hoti.
Aur rape ki baat jahan tak hai, to bhai sahib, aap yeh bataiye ke ek mulk main jis ka qanun hi ek muzlim aurat ko do char gawah lanay ka kahay to woh pagal ki bachi hai jo report karaygi? Agar woh nahi lati to us ko Zinna qarar deker usay jail main dal diya jata hai. Insaf? Nahi..jahan ka qanoon ek mazloom aurat ko kisi aur ke juraim ki saza deta ho wahan se is se ziada to kisi baat ki umeed rakh hi nahi saktay.
Saray Mulk se bahir itnay jahil nahi hain ke aap ki batain na samjhay. Pakistan se jo uth ker yahan aaye hain na, woh Pakistan ko bhi jaante hain aur bahir ki duniya ko bhi. Woh andhay nahi hain.
[QUOTE]
Btw, I can link you up with this American forum I frequently visit. Its basically a bodybuilding forum with millions of hits in a week. They have this "Misc" section and there people in the U.S. have pictures up of girls who they noticed say in the gym or in a store. Girls don't know, but they're actually getting them rated 1/10 and asking things such as "Should I hit that when I go tomm?" and the ones who respond say stuff such as "Aaahh man she's a peach, nehh" Or "I'd munch on her like i munch on my Oats" on and on. PM if you wish.
Again they may be Christians, but saying cherr chaar does not exist in the U.S. I'd disagree.
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What makes you think we haven't been on such websites? trust me, this is all internet lingo. This doesn't happen in the streets of America. Nobody dares talk down a woman like that, she will immediately call cops and the dude will get arrested. My point is, cherkhani doesn't happen here without the woman's consent. If they do, the law is enforced very harshly.
Rape here is nothing like the rape cases you hear about in pakistan. Even rapes have different types here - date rape, gang rape, spousal rape, rape of children, prison rape, rape of deception, war rape and the list goes on. If the law wasn't this enforced in this country, we couldn't have come up with so many different types of rapes. The most common is date rape, which is an entirely different type of rape that occurs mosly in Pakistan.
Don't downplay what happens to women in pakistan. we all know too well. Remember most of us have lived on both sides of the fence, so trust me, we know what we are talking about.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
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kiyooo ap koi prince charles hooo kiya :D
Better than Prince Charles :)
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
This debate is useless because, everyone is seeing things from his/her own angle and does not want to acknowledge that problems are on both sides of fence.
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It all depends what set of problem one is willing to compromise with.**
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
I repeat, I used my stats as examples, not comparisons. You speak of Veena Malik and previously there was Meera, another respectable member previously spoke of Shaista Wahidi and Sahir Lodhi. Comparatively, don’t we have Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Paris hilton then? Should one be judging their son’s potential wife just because she likes any one of them? I’m not saying this, people have.
Food Prices. They’ve went up considerably. Agreed.
Inflation rate in Pakistan: 13.77% (2011) Was under 5% (2004)
China’s at 6.5% while India 8.61%
U.S. 3.6%
U.K. 4.4%
Canada 3.1%
Japan 0.2%
Cost of good schools. Someone already mentioned that. Seemed reasonable.
Extracurricular activities for children. To name a few. Fine arts, Model making, Naat competitions, Qiraat competitions (the recitation of quran), Quiz competitions, Essay writing, Sports week - Check.
Electricity. The Governments failure. Fine, valid point/criticism.
Yes, I ask the same. Why should a family give up on something that provides them with a stabilized lifestyle in the West?
I’ve managed to mention this more than a few times. “I’m not here to enforce my views or convince anyone to come back, Its bad (Pakistan) yes it is, but not as bad as some people make it out to be”
Paint a picture if you must, but please paint it right.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Where should the blame go? Did you see the word 'we' in my post? What happened to Pakistan? Is the land that is cursed? Did the aliens come and poisoned it? Whatever happened, it is us and our parents and our grandparent that did it all. They were either accomplice or quiet at whatever was happening and are responsible for it all. We should at least accept the responsibility for the state our country is in, no?
But then, it is much easier to just point and say, "oh the place stinks."
LoL ! you are absolutely right buddy !
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
Finally theres someone who actually agrees with something. Pheww. Thank you. :salute:
What aspects would that be? I’m sure there is no competition between the two countries, just curious to know. On another note, my post was actually in response to another where the poster felt educational institutes in Pakistan had no standards. The argument was never “Its comparable to the West’s equally” but much rather “We admit the West has the best educational institutes around, however calling Pakistani institutions as having the worst of standards, sorry, thought went unsold”
Lol, thats evil. I hope/wish/pray she scoops more than 3-4 Oscars or equivalent and proves Mommy wrong royal royal. And after this you’re supposed to say.. Ameen!
No doubt there is, I have never been in denial of the wrong there is in Pakistan, I know the country’s a mess on several accounts, the ones you speak of and the limitless other ones you don’t speak of. Since the very beginning of this thread, there’s been extreme criticism on all of the unspoken ones by pretty much the majority of the posters who’ve contributed in this thread. Theres the constructive/valid criticism and then theres the unfair/untrue/unvalid criticism. The latter was perhaps less but immense and thats mainly what I’ve tried responding to.
Encourage I wouldn’t either. However on the contrary I know a few who regardless of everything we say, still end up going alone and end up coming back just fine, without complications, every time.
I agree with you on the latter. The West is no doubt leaps and bounds ahead.
Defence Library and additionally the British councel are 2 easily affordable libraries for the lower class. Creek, Country along with a dozen more clubs however do require memberships, and they’re not as much affordable/easily accessible for most of the lower middle class, some save up while some agree to payment plans. In the end though, the parents who really wish to become members (no strings attached) eventually do get in and its well worth it. For example in Creek, you get all sorts of activities to do, such as water sports, most indoor sports, Golf, lots of social activities for the young or the wise. I can easily go on and on. And then often also comes the moment where you’ve been handed over an Invitation card that says “Atif Aslam, Ali Zafar live in Concert”
Perhaps yes.
Same here?
“I always wonder why Birds choose to stay/live in the same place when they can fly anywhere on earth, then I ask myself the same question.”
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
This debate is useless because, everyone is seeing things from his/her own angle and does not want to acknowledge that problems are on both sides of fence. ** It all depends what set of problem one is willing to compromise with.**
I won't be the gender you'd look to be impressed with, but you my friend have impressed.
This is one short but effective way of putting things into perspective.
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
errr some species of birds do migrate every year.
Re: I don’t want my kids growing up in Pakistan…
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
You said it I didn't.. I said there are racists here but hate crimes aren't as frequent. The intensity of racism is nothing what you imagine. We call republicans/teabaggers racist, but they aren't exactly the KKK clan.
So racism exists but is not as frequent. Nothing wrong with that.
Not many had their locations up, You were the 1st to say you were in the U.S. so I chose to be U.S. specific.
So it's so few you can count on your fingers...And what about the number of people that are killed in Pakistan everyday? How do you even compare the death of two people with the death of a thousand folks? It makes no sense to compare the two.
You asked for recent, I gave you recent. If you want me to start counting, you're free to ask.
Count 1: Thousands of Muslims the U.S. forces have killed in Iraq and continues to
Count 2: Thousands of Muslims the U.S. forces have killed in Afghanistan and continues to
Count 3: Thousands of Muslims the U.S. forces have killed in Pakistan and continues to
Count 4: Thousands of American soldiers that have been killed. For example the 31 soldiers this past week? Fine they were not Muslims, insaan tou they.
Nahi, jo cher char wahan hoti hai woh baton wali cher char nahi hoti. Won nazar se hi insaan ko nangah kerdete hain. Chalo woh bhi choro, woh to baqaida touch kerke nikal jaate hain. Unko chappal utar ke maarne ka bhi mauqa nahi milta. Aisi ghatiya kisam ki cherchar yahan kisi ki baghair ijazat ke nahi hoti.
Agar kuch aisaa kurtey bhi hain tou isska yeh tou hurrgizz matlub nahi k hur koi aisaa karaay, aapkey khayal sey main bin behenoun ka bhai hun? Mainay jaisaa aapsey pehlaay arzz kiya tha, logoun key nazariyat mukhtalif housuktey hain, aapkey khayal sey Pakistan main cherrna urooj pey hai, merey khayal sey kuch ghalat loug zarur hain lekin kuch aisay loug bhi hain jo aurat ki izzat ka ehtaraam kurna bhi bakhoobi sey jaantey hain. Aapko itefaak nahi, woh haq aapka mehfooz hai.
Aur rape ki baat jahan tak hai, to bhai sahib, aap yeh bataiye ke ek mulk main jis ka qanun hi ek muzlim aurat ko do char gawah lanay ka kahay to woh pagal ki bachi hai jo report karaygi? Agar woh nahi lati to us ko Zinna qarar deker usay jail main dal diya jata hai. Insaf? Nahi..jahan ka qanoon ek mazloom aurat ko kisi aur ke juraim ki saza deta ho wahan se is se ziada to kisi baat ki umeed rakh hi nahi saktay.
Iss baat sey main aapki mutafik zarur hun, aur aap bakhabar hougi k aksariyat Pakistan main iss kanoon ki mukhalfat bhi khoob kurta hai. Aaj nahi tou kul, iss kanoon kee tarmeem tou honee hi hai. Ab agar aap kaho aisaay kanoon sirf aapko Pakistan main hi milaingey tou woh mehezz galat fehmi sey zyada kuch naa hougi. Aap batao, aisaa koi kanoon aapkey zehen main ataa hai jo U.S. main hou aur jis sey aap yaa majority mutmaeen naa houn?
Saray Mulk se bahir itnay jahil nahi hain ke aap ki batain na samjhay. Pakistan se jo uth ker yahan aaye hain na, woh Pakistan ko bhi jaante hain aur bahir ki duniya ko bhi. Woh andhay nahi hain.
Naraz behen, mainay kub kahaa jo loug mulk sey baahir hain woh andhaay hain yaa jaahil? a little harsh arent we? Albataa, agar aisaa kahin kahaa gayaa yaa aapko lagaa hou, tou main mehezz aapsey apni galtee ki maafi maang sukta hun. Jahan tuk aankhoun ki baat hai, Allah paak ney woh hum subko ataa farmayee hain, jo aap dekh suktee hou, wohi kuch iss duniya k doosrey loug bhi dekh suktey hain.
What makes you think we haven't been on such websites? trust me, this is all internet lingo. This doesn't happen in the streets of America. Nobody dares talk down a woman like that, she will immediately call cops and the dude will get arrested. My point is, cherkhani doesn't happen here without the woman's consent. If they do, the law is enforced very harshly.
So if humpty had a sister, and he see's his sisters pictures being explicitly rated upon. He wouldn't rage? I can direct you to tonnes of threads where a girl is being treated like it, you think no Muslim girl has ever appeared on the site? Argument is weak.
Rape here is nothing like the rape cases you hear about in pakistan. Even rapes have different types here - date rape, gang rape, spousal rape, rape of children, prison rape, rape of deception, war rape and the list goes on. If the law wasn't this enforced in this country, we couldn't have come up with so many different types of rapes. The most common is date rape, which is an entirely different type of rape that occurs mosly in Pakistan. Don't downplay what happens to women in pakistan. we all know too well. Remember most of us have lived on both sides of the fence, so trust me, we know what we are talking about.
Qatal golee maar k karain, yaa galaa dabaa k. Qatal tou qatal hai, aisay yaa waisay.
Downplay what, where? Again, what constantly makes you think only some of you have managed to live on both sides of the fences?
Fair trial please Sister.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
I COULD raise my kids there IF certain conditions were met. Will that be possible in my lifetime? Not sure.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
The most dangerous place to be in Pakistan is in a Mosque during Friday Prayers.
That alone should shame every single Pakistani.
Re: I don't want my kids growing up in Pakistan...
Where should the blame go? Did you see the word 'we' in my post? What happened to Pakistan? Is the land that is cursed? Did the aliens come and poisoned it? Whatever happened, it is us and our parents and our grandparent that did it all. They were either accomplice or quiet at whatever was happening and are responsible for it all. We should at least accept the responsibility for the state our country is in, no?
But then, it is much easier to just point and say, "oh the place stinks."
I can relate to that too. At times I come across people claiming how Pakistan is undergoing some sort of 'azaab' or something. I mean even if it was, these people *itch about this every third day and that is unbecoming of people who hail from the country. Many people say such things because of their own interests, or to satisfy what's on their minds.
The other day I heard a friend say that so I decided to dig into why she said that because she was primarily raised outside Pakistan. Turns out she is an Ahmedi and her parents instilled a lot of hate into her mind when she was growing up as if the entire nation was some kind of Ahmedi persecutor and what's happening now according to her is the result of the persecution of her people.
This other friend of mine, who I know is deeply religious continues to whine about Pakistan and how it is such a bad place to raise kids because knowing him, he tried very hard to go back to Pakistan a while ago but his wife and kids refused (understandably so because they were born and raised here and he cant just make an abrupt decision). Now he finds some sort of solace in making Pakistan this despicable place to raise kids in order to soothe his bruised ego.
There is nothing wrong with living inside or outside of Pakistan. To each their own thing, but at least stop belittling each other as to who is living a better life and all.