Hope for single ladies

[ZareenKhan]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Paheli00

1. Of course not marrying someone from overseas is justified. Which is why I acknowledged in the previous post that women who choose this route are taking a risk. On the flip side, girls who are not willing to take this risk should not be shocked if the pool of eligible men for them is smaller.

2. I never said an educated girl should not want an educated guy. My point was that once again…if a girl, even if she herself has a graduate degree, insists on someone with a graduate degree and rejects guys b/c they only have a Bachelors…then she should not be shocked if she’s having a harder time finding a guy.

3. I can’t comment much on this b/c again…this is all subjective. The girls/their families may seem great to you but you have no idea how the acted/what was said during a rishta meeting. And the guy’s side may have had their own reasons for rejecting them. As we all know…there are always 2 sides to a story…and then there’s the truth. While I have no doubt you have been told by these girls what experiences they went through, you must keep in mind that you only heard their own perception of the situation which MIGHT be biased.

4. Bottom line also is that we all (guys AND girls) need to live with the choices we made. I chose to wait and married in my 30’s. Most of my friends/co-workers marry in their 30’s. Yet I do know a few girls who are in their mid to late 30’s and still single…can’t find someone despite looking for years. If a girl chooses to wait for marriage for whatever reason…there is nothing wrong with that. But she should also realize that there are consequences to that decision. She may have a fulfilling/thriving career BUT may also have a very difficult time finding a spouse…especially if she is insisting on her spouse being Pakistani and meeting ALL her criterias (even if those criterias are reasonable). That’s just the realities of life. It all goes back to supply and demand and unfortunately, there is not a lack of beautiful girls in their early to mid 20’s available for marriage who are also nice and come from decent families. So men don’t really have to “compromise” when it comes a girl’s age if they want someone young. This has nothing to do with what’s right and wrong…its just the realities of our society and this will not change anytime soon.

Ok i understand your pov much better now. You are basically saying that if you want some things, no matter even if they are the basics, you might have to wait and perhaps face hardships in the process.

@TLK

If you look at the long term histroy, the old system probably worked more successfully than the new approach. Yes one can argue about the cons of ‘joint family system’ and presence of ‘male dominance’ in the old system, but there were plenty of pros also.

Agreed.

[Sweetmoi]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

One thing I don’t get is, why do you have to wait till you finish education to get married? Why can’t you continue with education even after marriage?

Cuz that would be simple. Leave it to desi ppl to complicate and turn everything into rocket science

[Tahurra]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@TLK

** I want my wife to look like Katrina, and have intelligence like Fatima Bhutto, and should speak like Nadia Khan. **The competition is (unnecessarily) tough, and when the competition gets tough, more people lose.

After that divorce them like hero:) sorry to say…this point touches touchesmy heart

[OYMWA]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@TLK

I think major reason is that the unpredictably of that situation. at least 6 out of 10 times, because of pregnancy, hubby’s job transfers, or other family situations, it becomes hard for the girl to continue her education.

Understood. But if education is of utmost importance won’t those factors be discussed during the rishta process? Pregnancy and kids must definitely be on the table. As for other situations, nobody can predict those. Even if the girl is unmarried, any number of things can happen that could disrupt her education.

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

One thing I don’t get is, why do you have to wait till you finish education to get married? Why can’t you continue with education even after marriage?

because after marriage sasoo maa want a pota/poti to have some fun around… (most of the time).

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Understood. But if education is of utmost importance won’t those factors be discussed during the rishta process?

Its really hard to “enforce” what was discussed and agreed upon before marriage and keep the relationship healthy

[OYMWA]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Decent_6Chora

because after marriage sasoo maa want a pota/poti to have some fun around… (most of the time).

Its really hard to “enforce” what was discussed and agreed upon before marriage and keep the relationship healthy

If a younger girl is getting a lot of proposals, then she is in a position to negotiate. But as she ages and the number of proposals dwindle, the power of negotiation also dwindles. The point I am making is, if you are not ready for marriage, then by all means, wait. But if education is a top priority, it will be easier for her to find a guy/family that support her education when she is younger than when she is older.

Now as for the predictability of things to come, mature people deal with them as they come. If one lacks that maturity, then they lack the maturity for marriage. Try to find guy who is sincere and true to his word, but also know that no matter what anyone promises, things are liable to change.

[lafuriaroja]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Reha

That’s the thing though…what you may think is normal is not normal for someone else.

My point is…if you really want to get married badly…then you have to do something about it. You cannot just wait for things to happen. Position yourself in a way where you can get a guy you like.

You want a handsome guy? Do you look good?

You want an educated guy? How well can you match him?

You want a rich guy? Well…why would he invest in you?

You want a fit guy? Where is your six pack?

Everyone subconsciously looks for a partner that is their match. So…be that match.

Its not the nicest thing to hear but it is how we function when we are looking for people. You see a guy’s picture and you immediately judge whether or not he’s a good fit for you physically without knowing his beshumar qualities…you judge because attraction is important to you. But when you see a guy you like…are you sure he will like you back? Do you look like the kind of girl he might want?

Putting blame on society or men or anything else renders women powerless…at the mercy of our berehem mashra and I don’t think that’s right. Yes, our society has faults but let’s not use that as a cop out or an excuse to not have to work on ourselves.

again this is assuming that these girls are being unreasonable and demanding partners with qualities that that they themselves don’t have. There is a small percentage of girls like that but in my experience they are hardly a majority. A lot of girls are educated, rich, fit, beautiful, etc. but they still have trouble finding a good rishta. In fact I’ve seen plenty of girls being labelled as picky or unreasonable because they insist on a bachelors degree, or someone who hasn’t had a girlfriend before or drinks or smokes, etc. when they themselves have masters, are attractive and of a fairly conservative upbringing. My concern is more for these kind of girls, not girls who demand unreasonable qualities from their partners when they are not willing to correctly identify their own flaws.

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Now as for the predictability of things to come, mature people deal with them as they come. If one lacks that maturity, then they lack the maturity for marriage. Try to find guy who is sincere and true to his word, but also know that no matter what anyone promises, things are liable to change.

Its not all about maturity. sometimes circumstances changes after marriage. You will find posts left, right and center here complaining “he promised before marriage but..” or “she promised before marriage but…”

[Krypton]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@TLK

There was a time when people used to get married without ever meeting the potential spouse. I am sure that many of you, who have grand parents alive, can check with them and they might give you a personal testimony that that your dadi saw your dada after nikah for the first time, etc.

Yes, I know that risks were involved in marrying someone without ever meeting, but the parents of the couple would do the ground work. They would make the choice, which was based on sharafat of khandan, parha likha larka, and sughhar larki. It seems that based on the thinking of our society, those simple criteria were enough. Dulha had no one else to compare his wife with but his own mother and sisters.

Now that we want our own say also in our marriage, and we live in a more open society, I want my wife to look like Katrina, and have intelligence like Fatima Bhutto, and should speak like Nadia Khan. The competition is (unnecessarily) tough, and when the competition gets tough, more people lose.

I know we can never go back to the good ol days, but we can at least use them as a benchmark.

ummmmm. there was a lot wrong with the “good ol days”

it’s all the fault of the stupid rishta process.

and people obsessing over being married!

[Deeba1234]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Understood. But if education is of utmost importance won’t those factors be discussed during the rishta process? Pregnancy and kids must definitely be on the table. As for other situations, nobody can predict those. Even if the girl is unmarried, any number of things can happen that could disrupt her education.

There’s a LOT less chance of her education being disrupted before marriage.. After marriage she may have to move in with inlaws, be expected to do more housework, not be “anti-social”, not wait long to have kids etc. etc.

Even if the guy is ok with her completing her education or working before marriage it’s not that unlikely that he’ll change his mind.. or if he’s ok with it there’s a good chance the elders won’t be..

It is possible but anyone who says it’s just as easy doing it after marriage as before is not being realistic..

[OYMWA]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Deeba1234

There’s a LOT less chance of her education being disrupted before marriage.. After marriage she may have to move in with inlaws, be expected to do more housework, not be “anti-social”, not wait long to have kids etc. etc.

Even if the guy is ok with her completing her education or working before marriage it’s not that unlikely that he’ll change his mind.. or if he’s ok with it there’s a good chance the elders won’t be..

It is possible but anyone who says it’s just as easy doing it after marriage as before is not being realistic..

It depends on the family one is marrying into. And the point I am making is, it is easier to find such a family when you are young and have a lot of rishtas to consider, than when you are older and fewer to consider.

Both my sisters and my wife continued their studies after getting married. So I know am not being unrealistic here. Brought up this question, because I have seen it work.

[TLK]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Krypton

ummmmm. there was a lot wrong with the “good ol days”

it’s all the fault of the stupid rishta process.

and people obsessing over being married!

’

being married is a natural/social obligation. So being obsessed over it is just fine.

[GlobalGal]

Re: Hope for single ladies

I don’t know why those girls are getting depressed. They should be dancing it out and putting themselves out there. Go to every single Pakistani function or get-together out there. Lets not get desperate people…

[Paheli00]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@ZareenKhan

Ok i understand your pov much better now. You are basically saying that if you want some things, no matter even if they are the basics, you might have to wait and perhaps face hardships in the process.

Yes, that’s exactly my point. Almost everything in life requires a compromise. If a woman wants to have 6 kids, then after having 6 kids she can’t be surprised if she’s not a size 2 or doesn’t have too much free time for herself due to having 6 kids. If a woman chooses to marry a taxi driver, she can’t really be surprised if they’re not living in a fancy house or driving a fancy car. Similarly, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman choosing to delay marriage until her 30’s to pursue higher education/fulfilling career…but she cannot be surprised if she’s having a very hard time finding a Pakistani guy to meet all her criterias.

BTW, going back your education comments earlier…I have a Indian friend who is a M.D. (Oncologist). She’s Gujrati. She was single & looking well into her early 30’s. Of course she was searching for a Gujrati doctor due to her own background. Finally one day she came to her senses and relaxed these criterias. As of right now, she’s married to a Marathi guy (born/raised in U.S.) who only has a Bachelor’s but still has a great job in the administrative area of a large hospital. He’s not a doctor, probably makes close to 6-figures but nothing compared to what she earns, and not Gujrati. But he’s a GREAT guy, both of their families get along perfectly (b/c both sets of parents focused on the couple’s happiness instead of what they wanted), and they’re expecting their 1st baby soon. Has she stuck to her “dreams” of marrying a Gujrati doctor, she may still be single. And by reading this, you may think she didn’t get what she “deserved” but I can tell you as a close friend of hers that she is very happy and if she had to do it all over again, she would choose to marry this guy in a heartbeat b/c he has filled her life with nothing with happiness since they met.

Women…even the one’s with impressive resumes/careers need to realize the realities of life. I often see this sense of entitlement coming from such women (and I am NOT saying the girls you know are like this). All these women see themselves as great looking & coming from decent families. They all think their great education/career should put them in more demand in the rishta scene. Yet they don’t take into account that perhaps their personalities/attitude MIGHT be playing a role in turning off potential rishtas. It is 100% true that as we get older, we are more set in our ways. Having graduate degrees, and earning a big fat paycheck can be very empowering…which has the potential to make someone (guys AND girls) a stubborn, egotistical jerk who refuses to compromise or see any shortcomings within themselves. It does not effects guys as much b/c of the whole supply/demand thing I mentioned earlier. Plus guys are also more flexible in marrying a non-desi girl. But with women…its not like these women are willing to marry someone younger or willing to consider non-Pakistanis. The situation is not fair but that’s just how it is. And being angry/upset/whiny/depressed about it is not going to change anything.

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Both my sisters and my wife continued their studies after getting married. So I know am not being unrealistic here. Brought up this question, because I have seen it work.

No, you are not being unrealistic. However, keep in mind that you’re basing your views based on what you’ve seen with the people around you. Other people are basing their views based on what they may have seen happen within their families, friends etc. Just like your view is not unrealistic…its also not unrealistic for others to think that a girl’s husband and/or in-laws will insist on stopping her education once the nikah papers are signed even though they promised otherwise before marriage. The issue is not whether or not the guy/his family are willing to “promise” certain things…but the odds of the keeping that promise once the deal is done OR something else (such as pregnancy) preventing the girl from completing her education.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

It depends on the family one is marrying into. And the point I am making is, it is easier to find such a family when you are young and have a lot of rishtas to consider, than when you are older and fewer to consider.

Both my sisters and my wife continued their studies after getting married. So I know am not being unrealistic here. Brought up this question, because I have seen it work.

Well once you’re older, education is done and completed.

Anyway, honestly, how old is the average girl after completing a bachelors degree in the States (in other countries, it’s even a lesser age, the American system is way too long). You graduate high school at 18. You graduate college at 22. If you’re a smart girl, you’re graduate college at an even younger age, because hopefully you did college credits when you were in high school instead of wasting time on actual high school level classes.

If you add a masters, it puts you at 24. Still ample young.

It’s only the medical degrees and training that really take forever. My sister is done with her law and is bar’d and she’s 25.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

Understood. But if education is of utmost importance won’t those factors be discussed during the rishta process? Pregnancy and kids must definitely be on the table. As for other situations, nobody can predict those. Even if the girl is unmarried, any number of things can happen that could disrupt her education.

Your chances of finishing your education and obtaining career goals (esp competetive ones) is much higher if you’re not married.

Story upon story of girls who tried to finish their medical training and it got interrupted by in-laws. Girls who could never get to the finishing point so they could actually practice, and girls who were practicing that were made to stop.

This is even a topic that was addressed at an APPNA convention. Aunties who are behind these crimes were found to be yawning. Sad.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@Reha

That’s the thing though…what you may think is normal is not normal for someone else.

My point is…if you really want to get married badly…then you have to do something about it. You cannot just wait for things to happen. Position yourself in a way where you can get a guy you like.

You want a handsome guy? Do you look good?

You want an educated guy? How well can you match him?

You want a rich guy? Well…why would he invest in you?

You want a fit guy? Where is your six pack?

Everyone subconsciously looks for a partner that is their match. So…be that match.

Its not the nicest thing to hear but it is how we function when we are looking for people. You see a guy’s picture and you immediately judge whether or not he’s a good fit for you physically without knowing his beshumar qualities…you judge because attraction is important to you. But when you see a guy you like…are you sure he will like you back? Do you look like the kind of girl he might want?

Putting blame on society or men or anything else renders women powerless…at the mercy of our berehem mashra and I don’t think that’s right. Yes, our society has faults but let’s not use that as a cop out or an excuse to not have to work on ourselves.

That’s a little harsh. Marriage isn’t all about looking hot, and some people have the looks they have and attraction is subjective. I’ve been called ugly to my face when I was a skinny stick and a BMI of 22, which is normal. I have been called beautiful when I’ve been overweight, more often, way more often, then when I was skinny. Weird. And then I’ve been outright turned down by guys without a second look.

It’s all subjective. Just like I could find a guy attractice who you think looks like poo no matter how hard he works out.

But if you’re talking about extremes then yeah, if your BMI is hitting high, then no harm in bringing yourself into shape, it only benefits you in the long run.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Hope for single ladies

I’ll be honest. The condescending scolding you see on forums like this from women who are married and women who are older to those who are younger and single - that’s where the source of the depression is. If the community was more encouraging and supportive, then there wouldn’t be depressed girls like the one OP described. And they do exist. It’s not just PCG. You can x me out of the equation, I’m prolly an aberration anyway. I’ve seen girls like what OP describes at parties, and it’s sad. And honestly, it’s the women in the community that have made them feel bad about themselves. Matchmakers wont help you once you’re past 30, they start turning their noses up and passing comments. People in the community wont be supportive either, and I’ve seen very few people actually talking about so and so or so and so girl that is working or training and “let’s help her find a guy, she’s always working” or “she’s studying, while she is studying, let’s help her find a groom”. There is like barey any talk like that. No one is open about these things. I find that aunties gossip and talk to each other quietly and find women for their sons, or a lot of guys are just finding girls on their own these days too while they’re in school or amongst their social circles.

And I don’t think this issue is limited to older girls. I’ve been opening up to guys who are here as immigrants, working here legally on work permits, etc. You’d be surprised. I feel like most of them feel exactly the way I do and in fact, was talking to a guy just today who frikkin asked me whether I think he may be depressed.

They have similar complaints except for them it’s “We waited too long we spent our 20’s working and building ourselves and now families want to know what our real deal is - why are we 30 something and still single?”. or “Girl likes me her family likes me, then they find out I’m on a work permit, or I grew up in Pakistan, not here, and they will stop talking to me”. Or best of all “I can’t get a wife, because I just have a bachelors degree, and everyone wants a masters minimum, and I’m too tired/broke to go back to school”. Like literally, talked to 3 guys this past week, all of them are asking me if they should be on an anti-depressant.

Pity. I pity our culture, and our aunties who have created this culture.

[Krypton]

Re: Hope for single ladies

@TLK

’

being married is a natural/social obligation. So being obsessed over it is just fine.

but it’s not an obligation…and why can’t old people get married.

you just sign a piece of paper.

[NaMaan]

Re: Hope for single ladies

Guys have you noticed how these Desi women are full of excuses and sympathy hunger. Always willing to change the world but not their lazy behind.

Funny stuff.