Re: Gay/lesbian friends
flogging definition is To beat severely with a whip or rod. and the act of inflicting corporal punishment with repeated blows and its to be done publicly in an agressive nature to deter others also. surley after this i think they will pretty much die.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
^ I meant homosexuality punishment is not sanctioned in Quran despite condemnation.
Edited above.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
do you know in quran there is the story about one peoples who were practicing homosexualtiy and through a messenger he told them to stop but they did not listen. so he destroyed those people. Allah himself.
Islam is clear in its prohibition of homosexual acts. Islamic scholars cite these reasons for condemning homosexuality, based on teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah:
In Islamic terminology, homosexuality is alternatively called al-fahsha’ (an obscene act), shudhudh (abnormality), or 'amal qawm Lut (behavior of the People of Lut). Islam teaches that believers should neither participate in nor support homosexuality.
From the Qur’an The Qur’an shares stories which are meant to teach people valuable lessons. The Qur’an tells the story of the people of Lut (Lot), which is similar to the story as shared in the Old Testament of the Bible. We learn of an entire nation which was destroyed by God due to their obscene behavior, which included rampant homosexuality. As a prophet of God, Lut preached to his people. The people rejected Lut and threw him out of the city. In response, God destroyed them as punishment for their transgressions and disobedience. Muslim scholars cite these verses to support a prohibition against homosexual behavior.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
Yes. That is essentially in Quran.
Show me where Allah said in Quran how to punish homosexuals.
Look my friend you can keep going, but you need to read above for the answers already given.
As far as the act of homosexuality is concerned, there is no doubt it is wrong.
Socially one may choose not to associate with them which is the question of this thread.
Punishment is a different matter. It is not up to common people to worry about.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
strict punishment of acts of homosexuality is still believed by some islamic countries where religious laws are strict. its is just about strictness and that there is WHO something like that an organization where every country is answerable to them for their punishments and laws and don’t allow them to do whatever. if it was like the times when our prophet was living they would probably be beaten to death on streets.
In many Muslim countries, acting upon homosexual feelings – the behavior itself – is condemned and subject to legal punishment. The specific punishment varies among jurists, ranging from jail time or flogging, to the death penalty. In Islam, capital punishment is only reserved for the most grievous crimes which hurt society as a whole. Some jurists view homosexuality in that light, particularly in countries such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen.
and one of those grievous crimes is that cause
*Fasaad fi al-ardh *which is spreading mishcief in the land. is generally interpreted to mean those crimes that affect the community as a whole, and destabilize the society. Crimes that have fallen under this description have included:
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
and i never said that it was upto the common person to worry about the punishment. you asked how i came up with the comment that according to religion technically they should be wiped out or something like that and so i am answering you here.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
One of my husband’s close friends told us last year that he’s gay. Did it make a difference to our friendship? I can honestly say not at all. Yes it felt weird initially, but after a point you get over it. We still hang out like before, go to movies and restaurants together. Now it’s hardly even mentioned. I actually admire him for the battles he’s had to fight and also for the fact that he refused to get into a “normal” arranged marriage despite tremendous family pressure. It’s not easy being LGBT even in a liberal country like the US.
And I think these gay stereotypes are highly exaggerated - my friend does not conform to any of them. It’s not like every gay person wears pink all the time or has feminine mannerisms. That’s all Bollywood/Hollywood stereotyping.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
So punishment for premarital sex is flogging and extramarital sex is stoning to death?
whew that was a close one on that one.
just to be certain, can you share where in quran the stoning to death is noted as punishment?
although with muttah and misyar loopholes why would anyon really need to do either
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
The Qur’an uses the phrase “fornicators or adulterers” in Qur’an 24:2 and prescribes 100 lashes as the punishment (verse 4:15 suggests house arrest for “lewdness”). This almost certainly refers to unmarried sex only, since it would make little sense that fornication and adultery be prescribed the exact same punishment when they are very different offenses. It would also contradict the many examples from the Hadith in which Muhammad put adulterers to death. In fact, Muslim (17:4209) records a case in which an unmarried man is ordered flogged, while his married partner in crime is stoned.
According to Umar, the companion of Muhammad and Islam’s second caliph, “[Allah] sent down the Book (Quran) upon him (Muhamad), and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him.” Umar went on to insist that “Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah’s Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.” (Muslim 17:4194)
In other words, there was a verse in the original Quran narration that prescribed stoning adulterers, but it was left out of the compiling process in the years following Muhammad’s death. Umar’s insistence on the stoning verse is recorded in other volumes that are also among the most reliable Hadith, including Sahih Bukhari 8:817: *“I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, ‘By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah’s Book,’ and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse.” * (Rajam refers to stoning).
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
Point 1- it is not in quran - got it
point 2- it is in hadeeth - okay, a little confusing if it is not in quran, then can quran be considered complete as god said it was?
I mean if it is such a major offense that it warrants capital punishment, probably would be good to be more clear on it, its not that there is not enough room to have a couple of sentences in there.
point 3- so Umar noted that it was originally in Quran but it has since ben left out-
so stoning for adultery was in quran, but is no longer in quran because it was taken out in compilation just shortly after the prophets death, okay, that is even more confusing.
That makes me wonder about a few things
a) what else is missing from quran. If something as critical as capital punishment was taken out, when, why..and how many less critical things have been taken out or doctored
b) conversely, what may have been added to quran, added, altered, doctored…I mean if capital punishment on a major sin can be removed, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that stuff could be introduced as well
c) didnt god say he himself will protect quran? did he not do it? or then is that statement something that is misquoted in quran? stuff added and removed and then that statement added so no one can question alteration
d) Quran that was memorized by many people in the prophet’s time and was documented by many was altered just a few years after the prophet’s passing as per your note to Umar’s saying,
but hadeeth which was not compiled for decades/centuries could not have been rigged and altered and added to or taken from.
For me it simply does not compute. hadeeth to me can be in support of what is in the quran, or explain it, but it cant be counter to or be adding new things, because that would make quran an incomplete book, whereas god said he completed the religion.
With all due respect to Umar, I think he was misquoted or was wrong. likelihood is that he was misquoted and when stuff was compiled centuries later, stuff got in there that is just wrong. After all, the compilers of hadeeth tossed many out themselves, and on many they could not determine how authentic they were. possibility of a lot of untrue stuff getting in there is pretty high
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
humans compiled it after our prophet mohammad pbuh died. maybe they left things out. but the things written about homosexuals in quran that is all there and i have posted the evidence for that.hadiths are not confusing because those were noted examples of actions carried out by prophet. so the next best thing would be to look at how he was carrying out the will of god.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
And I already gave you answer to that “wiped out” is not what religion categorically or technically says.
There is no fixed method of punishment.
And your posts are getting weird one by one. No idea where are you getting those information.
If anything is not in Quran then it is not. That is the consensus and agreement.
You have been reading some wrong sites.
Here is the answer to your post.
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2009/08/myth-of-qurans-lost-verse-about-stoning.html
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
but it is one of them.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
you cannot say that it has never been used for homosexuality. or that some countries still don’t use it
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
Humans compiled it, but in quran god says he will protect quran. Did he not protect quran then?
if we can make the claim that humans who were there when the prophet shared the verses got it wrong and missed stuff…is it not even more likely…exponentially so.. that humans who were compiling stories of what he said or what he did centuries after his death, and that of the people attributed for the quotes, that the hadeeth compilations can not be wrong?
surely you are not saying that quran is wrong and incomplete and hadeeth is correct and also corrects the errors in quran. are you?
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
well if you use that logic then you can say the whole religion is baseless. if you compare with christianity and judaism the relgions that were developed of the earlier prophets who allah sent to guide everyone with the same principles but it messed up. how come they have similar views on punishments and stuff on those same acts.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
Thats not my logic, my logic is much simpler…my logic is that much of the hadeeth is simply wrong, and doctored by generations that it passed through either maliciously, or to support some social and political needs or by human error which just gets bigger as more and more time passes, and centuries are a big time even now, let alone back then.
If I am going by the hypothesis that quran was altered and thus something extremely important (yes..capital punishment is serious) is missing from it, then it opens many doors of what else could be missing or added.
Now this is even more interesting.
are you saying the judiasm and christianity were not altered then because they have the same punishment as what Hadeeth says but not quran?
by that token are other things in judaism and christianity that are counter to islamic teachings also okay then, because maybe they had it right, it was missed in quran or removed from it, and missed in hadeeth and removed from it as well?
other thoughts
a) I mean I always thought that quran was revealed with one of the reasons to correct the changes that were made in those books,
b) I also thought that while those were not the final words of god, quran was…and is.
c) was final word of god not complete?
d) did god not protect it, or is that assertion in quran incorrect and inserted to prevent people from asking if it jas been altered?
e) and for things that we dont see in quran, but see in old testament or new testament that we should use them as sources on those items then?
better go get my bible and talmud and torah I guess.
PS: Occam’s razor comes in handy in such cases…
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
Keep coming closer to what you intended from the beginning. 
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
maybe some of your thoughts are right but that doesn’t entirely disprove mine either.
Re: Gay/lesbian friends
I guess we can agree to disagree on that as well.