Gay/lesbian friends

[Southie]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@queer, please note it is wives, not wifes. Please do not spread such spelling filthiness.

[sweefs]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

bi-trollarchick yaaay

[diwana]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@queer

…

so you are now saying its fine for people to be friends with whoever they feel comfortable with, including homosexuals, muslims, women, blacks, punjabis, black punjabi homosexual muslim women?

Yes. Including anyone. Friendship is not forced. It is earned.

@Bipolar_Chick

i know about their unnatural acts and urges. you are lucky we are just satisfied staying away from them. ** otherwise islam says that they should be eliminated as they are not natural. **and are spreading filthiness.

Where did you get that from? Reverse psychology??

[Bipolar_Chick]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@diwana

Yes. Including anyone. Friendship is not forced. It is earned.

Where did you get that from? Reverse psychology??

Allah condemns homosexuality explicitly in the Qur’an: “Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? Nay, You are a people who transgress.” (26:165-166) It is the sin of the people of Lut and its Arabic word is lutiyya. Liwat is the word for sodomy, under which heading the topic of homosexuality is found in the books of fiqh. Under shari`a both the (same-sex) sodomizer and sodomized are passible of death. The laws of other religions were similar until not so long ago. The Companions considered it so abhorrent that they subjected the culprits to burning, an extreme punishment not meted out for any other offense.

[queer]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

how do you test your hetero frands for not being sodomizers, bichickji? lemon juice?

[diwana]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Bipolar_Chick

Allah condemns homosexuality explicitly in the Qur’an: “Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? Nay, You are a people who transgress.” (26:165-166) It is the sin of the people of Lut and its Arabic word is lutiyya. Liwat is the word for sodomy, under which heading the topic of homosexuality is found in the books of fiqh. Under shari`a both the (same-sex) sodomizer and sodomized are passible of death. The laws of other religions were similar until not so long ago. The Companions considered it so abhorrent that they subjected the culprits to burning, an extreme punishment not meted out for any other offense.

Your first post was wrong.

And this post is even more so.

First: The discussion is about being friend and in social perspective. Religion was brought by few here hence it was discussed.

You brought religion too but in wrong way.

Islamic view on this act is condemnation no doubt.

What is said in Islam or those who interpret is that, the act if it is done hidden way will make the people answerable to Allah only.

And if the act is suggested or (rarely if ever) done in public then there is no real difference between homosexual or heterosexuals.

Regardless, there is no such thing that people need to go on and punish homosexuals extremely for being homosexuals or somehow they are different from heterosexuals committing crime.

[ninja_hattori]

@Southie:9525295

[quote="“ajazali, post:117, topic:280529"”]

if we do not have limits then what is difference between animals and us? Where would be the society then?

Since you brought up the animal comparison, animals are better than folks with this attitude. At least they live and let live.

This is my humble opinion.
[/quote]

Who told you that animal live and let live

[Bipolar_Chick]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@diwana

Your first post was wrong.

And this post is even more so.

First: The discussion is about being friend and in social perspective. Religion was brought by few here hence it was discussed.
***you asked me yourself the question that where did you get that from.that is why i posted an answer

---

You brought religion too but in wrong way.
***i mentioned religion in my discussion. so what. this is a pakistani forum and the majority of pakistani people follow islam.

---

Islamic view on this act is condemnation no doubt.
so you agree then

What is said in Islam or those who interpret is that, the act if it is done hidden way will make the people answerable to Allah only.
***give the verse using the quran just as i did. give evidence to back up your claim like i did.

---

And if the act is suggested or (rarely if ever) done in public then there is no real difference between homosexual or heterosexuals.
where does it say that. where did you get this from.

Regardless, there is no such thing that people need to go on and punish homosexuals extremely for being homosexuals or somehow they are different from heterosexuals committing crime.

if you talk about need. nobody really needs to do anything the religion sais. alot of us don’t. but if its in the religion it is in the religion from quran to hadiths from scholars who have studied these topics for so long. it cannot be deneied. i gave evidence to back up my claims. u did not. and u also agreed with me as one of the definitons of condemn is To pronounce judgment against.

[diwana]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Bipolar_Chick

if you talk about need. nobody really needs to do anything the religion sais. alot of us don’t. but if its in the religion it is in the religion from quran to hadiths from scholars who have studied these topics for so long. it cannot be deneied. i gave evidence to back up my claims. u did not. and u also agreed with me as one of the definitons of condemn is To pronounce judgment against.

Very well.

There is no consensus among different schools of thoughts here.

At least Hanafi school does not say any physical punishment is needed.

Others treat them just like zina or Adultry.

The need for witness however is common. And no you are not correct in making sweeping statement that “they should be eliminated”.

There are ways which should most likely be carried out is trying to reform them and give them chance to amend their behavior.

Islam and Homosexuality

**Treatment of homosexuals within Islam: **
According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual.

Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful.

They differ in terms of penalty:

The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.

The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.

The Sha’fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act.

[Southie]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@ninja_hattori

Who told you that animal live and let live

Hattori-san, dōbutsu wa tabemono dake no tame ni korosu.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Southie

Hattori-san, dōbutsu wa tabemono dake no tame ni korosu.

Sorry my french is poor…

[Southie]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@ninja_hattori

Sorry my french is poor…

See how peaceful our exchange is! This is the key - use phoren language.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Southie

See how peaceful our exchange is! This is the key - use phoren language.

i thought we always had peaceful discussions…

[Southie]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@ninja_hattori

i thought we always had peaceful discussions…

Of course. Ab kya mai Aapse joke nahin kar sakta? Enna saar?

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Southie

Of course. Ab kya mai Aapse joke nahin kar sakta? Enna saar?

Any time southie saar

[Bipolar_Chick]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@diwana

Very well.

There is no consensus among different schools of thoughts here.

At least Hanafi school does not say any physical punishment is needed.

Others treat them just like zina or Adultry.

The need for witness however is common. And no you are not correct in making sweeping statement that “they should be eliminated”.

There are ways which should most likely be carried out is trying to reform them and give them chance to amend their behavior.

Islam and Homosexuality

**Treatment of homosexuals within Islam: **
According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual.

Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful.

They differ in terms of penalty:

The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.

The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.

The Sha’fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act.

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:
“When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes.”

         "Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that  it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners  in gay sexual intercourse)


         There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior  mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is  zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."


         Traditionalist orthodox Muslims generally claim that the  Hadith literature contains the authentic sayings of Muhammad.

[Bipolar_Chick]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

and you said one treats it just like zina or adultery . well do you know that the punishment for zina or adultery is stoning to death. which still happens in saudi arabia where culture has does not interfere with the religion like it does in other countries around the world.

[X2]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Bipolar_Chick

and you said one treats it just like zina or adultery . well do you know that the punishment for zina or adultery is stoning to death. which still happens in saudi arabia where culture has does not interfere with the religion like it does in other countries around the world.

just for my reference where is the ruling for premarital and extramarital sex as stoning to death in quran? I thought it was more of a jewish thing.

the islamic schools of thought differences also strikes me as rather strange, because if this is so important shouldnt there be consensus on the punishment?

which school is right and which is wrong? they cant be all right can they?

especially if their verdict is different than a hadeeth shared, are the hadeeth wrong, or are these schools of thought ignoring the hadeeth?

[diwana]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@Bipolar_Chick

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:
“When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes.”

         "Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that  it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners  in gay sexual intercourse)


         There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior  mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is  zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."


         Traditionalist orthodox Muslims generally claim that the  Hadith literature contains the authentic sayings of Muhammad.

@Bipolar_Chick

and you said one treats it just like zina or adultery . well do you know that the punishment for zina or adultery is stoning to death. which still happens in saudi arabia where culture has does not interfere with the religion like it does in other countries around the world.

I think pretty much I gave you my answer.

If all of that above were so black and white then Hanafi school (largest) would not differ from others.

Even for it being equivalent to Zina there are three opinions. Equal to Zina, less than Zina or more than Zina.

Besides there is no punishment sanctioned in Quran for this act (homosexuality) despite condemnation.

Only the punishment of Loot was mentioned. No orders given in Quran like for Zina etc.

[Bipolar_Chick]

Re: Gay/lesbian friends

@diwana

I think pretty much I gave you my answer.

If all of that above were so black and white then Hanafi school (largest) would not differ from others.

Even for it being equivalent to Zina there are three opinions. Equal to Zina, less than Zina or more than Zina.

Besides there is no punishment sanctioned in Quran for this act despite condemnation.

Only the punishment of Loot was mentioned. No orders given in Quran like for Zina etc.

yes there is punishment for zina

Because of the abhorrent nature of this crime, Allaah has decreed that the punishment for it should be stoning to death if the person is married and flogging if he was not married.