Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

True that you haven’t sworn to answer my ONLY QUESTION, which is to provide proven / references of your agreement. And true again that I don’t have a controlling share in when you present an Islamic reference, **YOU **decide that. So brother when YOU decide to give these answers ONLY than come back and put your agreement forward. Don’t just fire empty, noisy, good for nothing gun and waste my time.

“Avatar / PIC of jasos”… lol… I’m sorry brother but now you are just beating around the bush. His pic has got nothing to do with me. And talking about it is again deviating from the topic and complete wasting our time. ******
“Propagation of wahabi” lol.. now you are sounding foolish.**

“With regards to Qabars and seeking of aid/getting aid there - This has been a practice of the Muslims ummah in our ENTIRETY” Inna Lilla he was Inna alihe jaajeoun, brother you really need to get your facts right.****

“With regards to Ijma of Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaah on Mawlid, like i said earlier” what do you mean like I said??? Saying based on WHAT?? Who are you?? Do you have any authority?? Are you a mufti or an Alim, a schooler?? I’m sure you are not. I suggest you to choose your word carefully.****

For the last time, please don’t waste your energy and our time with your wrong, falls knowledge and try to misguide people. I also suggest to get your facts right. In order to do that you need to read the history of Islam, read seerat un Nabi properly. Read and learn Quran. Do your own research, InshAllah you won’t be misguided ever.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala guid us all And HE knows the best.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

YES i will discuss Islamic references as per my own decision. I have my reasons for this, and its also true that you may be tempted to pull your hair out in the mean time. This is unfortunate
My Gun is well oiled btw and its not exactly that you have refuted me so I see no reason for me think differently. I have helped you repent which alone is worth my effort so far, so I am happy with my contribution. In Sha Allah you are able to overlook any perceived arrogance on my part which has been termed assuredness of being upon truth by others] and find benefit in our discourse…If you are doing this as part of a loyalty scheme to some sect or movement please do inform me.

Right so where was I, offering counselling wasn’t I. So..

Actually lets forget counselling for a Min, lets go back to my claim and the subject at hand Mawlid. I said [which you ignored]:

With regards to Ijma of Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaah on Mawlid, like i said earlier, Any who totally forbids Mawlid is a Mubtadi [An Innovator]
Any one who can call gatherings [of Mawlid] to :
Recite Quran
Recite naat of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Listen to Speeches by Ulema on The Life of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Making Dua

…anyone who can calls these gatherings to be impermissible is a Mubtadi [a deviant]

The above gathering is Mawlid and it is a part of what the deviants have forbidden [with no authority to do so]

Such a person can not be from us

Any Objections?

The point is he agrees with you and you agree with him and you both propagate a similar image. I’ll remind you of your responsibility with regards to pictures of an idolizing nature. I agree this is moving away from topic

I did not write that..i wrote *‘‘so much money has been spent on propagation of the wahabi sect that there will be very few of us not at least influenced by them’’ *And this is True. 100 Years ago there was very few wahabis. When people were trying to prove themselves as sunnis they would infer that they make takfir on those who prohibit Mawlid

This fact has been presented here to you. Its not something you are familiar with but its a FACT. Your trip up an innovated path which see such action as Shirk is not from Islam. That is why Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah built Mazaars from the east to the west, from the north to the south! Because the Muslims were keen on seeking aid at Qabars. Any way its a practice that we had had in our [Muslims] Entirety. You have me on record claiming this!

The reason you are surprised by this is because of the propagation of newer sects as I have mentioned.

Like I said just means I have said before on this thread. I am you but with the opposite view on this subject

If you can say I am misguiding people, you should be able to stand up to me with correct facts. Whats this business of asking a hundred questions when you know your opinion on these matters, and YOU are doing it to waste my time, and Malign Islamic Evidences with wholesale denial if I did present them to you.

Ameen

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

“YES i will discuss Islamic references as per my own decision. I have my reasons for this, and its also true that you may be tempted to pull your hair out in the meantime. This is unfortunate
My Gun is well oiled btw and its not exactly that you have refuted me so I see no reason for me think differently. I have helped you repent which alone is worth my effort so far, so I am happy with my contribution. In Sha Allah you are able to overlook any perceived arrogance on my part which has been termed assuredness of being upon truth by others] and find benefit in our discourse…If you are doing this as part of a loyalty scheme to some sect or movement please do inform me.”

Trust me I’m cool as a cucumber, and your arrogance too does not bother me. I don’t do hair pulling or anything of that nature when it comes to deen. I only ask Allah’s help. On the other hand I see you quite angry, full of rage and jumping up n down for nothing. So the person tempted to pull out hair would be you I guess.

Right so where was I, offering counselling wasn’t I. So..

Actually lets forget counselling for a Min, lets go back to my claim and the subject at hand Mawlid. I said [which you ignored]:

With regards to Ijma of Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaah on Mawlid, like i said earlier, Any who totally forbids Mawlid is a Mubtadi [An Innovator]
Any one who can call gatherings [of Mawlid] to :
Recite Quran
Recite naat of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Listen to Speeches by Ulema on The Life of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Making Dua

…anyone who can calls these gatherings to be impermissible is a Mubtadi [a deviant]

The above gathering is Mawlid and it is a part of what the deviants have forbidden [with no authority to do so]

Such a person cannot be from us

Any Objections?
**
YES, Objection is to your words “I said” … you said it on who’s authority, on what bases, on what proven facts, from what source, why should I believe you? (repeating my same questions again and again)
**
“The point is he agrees with you and you agree with him and you both propagate a similar image. I’ll remind you of your responsibility with regards to pictures of an idolizing nature. I agree this is moving away from topic”

**He (jasous) agreed with me.. that’s correct, I saw that post. But where and on what did I agree with him?? Could you quote the reply / post number. I guess you are seeing thing now..
**
“I did not write that..i wrote *‘‘so much money has been spent on propagation of the wahabi sect that there will be very few of us not at least influenced by them’’ *And this is True. 100 Years ago there was very few wahabis. When people were trying to prove themselves as sunnis they would infer that they make takfir on those who prohibit Mawlid”

**Repeating my question again.. I’m simply asking of the evidence of Mawlids being celebrated or asked to be celebrated by RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam and the sahabas and so on. I’m not interested in what happened 100 years back. I’m interested in what happened about 1400 years back, when islam ws introduces, when it was thought to the people and when RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam made Allah the witness and said (mafoom) deen is complete today.
**
"This fact has been presented here to you. Its not something you are familiar with but its a FACT. Your trip up an innovated path which see such action as Shirk is not from Islam. That is why Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah built Mazaars from the east to the west, from the north to the south! Because the Muslims were keen on seeking aid at Qabars. Any way its a practice that we had had in our [Muslims] Entirety. You have me on record claiming this!

The reason you are surprised by this is because of the propagation of newer sects as I have mentioned. "

**Prove it, prove your above claim, can you?? I’m all ears to you.
**
“Like I said just means I have said before on this thread. I am you but with the opposite view on this subject.”

**You are only playing with words my friend, insterd of answering / proving your claim.
**
“If you can say I am misguiding people, you should be able to stand up to me with correct facts. Whats this business of asking a hundred questions when you know your opinion on these matters, and YOU are doing it to waste my time, and Malign Islamic Evidences with wholesale denial if I did present them to you.”

**Open your eyes, I am standing up to you. And for a fact that you haven’t once even tried to prove (forget proving) all you have been talking about and not once you have attempted to reply my ONLY question (not hundred) IS ENOUGH for others to know, and may Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala keep me safe and away from Takabur and May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala guid us all And only HE knows the best. **
**Ameen **

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Nope, I am not angry, nor full of rage, nor jumping up and down [at present] although i do do this at times.

If your objection is to me and that ‘‘I said’’ …does it even need answering. This is not about me

You will have to be braver, if you actually object to the people who totally forbid Mawlid to be referred to as deviants and state this.

If your objection is to me, then that is neither here nor there

Ok, you do not see that you both came with a similar shaitanic non islamic attachments clearly visible? and that you both agree with each other on Mawlid as well. The similarities are interesting

I understand, but what is it about Mawlid that you are contending? Is it that it that it is celebrated, is it that its a birth celebration or that its a birthday celebration? or do you say it is Bidah dalala [bad innovation], or it is Haram, or it is impermissible? or something else, like if you have to practice it?

Also 1400 years ago when the Deen was introduced to us we were given Shariah, this is what we use to see the permissibility of an act or occasion. Earlier you asked regarding who we follow and I said we follow Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, who in turn follow Tabieen and Sahaba who in turn followed RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, we WILL have to go back to this point because although you did not contend this point at the time, i think you failed to grasp the stark differences between our approach your approach [the salafi fallacy]

Yes, this is certainly an area that I can prove, In Sha Allah

You were contending my words ‘‘like i said’’ so I explained, if you wanted me to prove my claims you need to object to the claim. You need to understand yourself what you are saying and doing.

I notice you are concerned about how you look to others and another reference here to others. Dude there is hardly any one reading this, and you are hidden.. jumpyb

You say you are standing up to me, but its not exactly clear what you are standing up to me regarding. You have done your talking in questions, which do not clarify your view at all. I wouldn’t exactly call that standing up, I’d say it was a position so protective of your ego/pride/image that you wont even state your opinions. Btw since you have asked questions and not made statements, i am not encouraging you to make statements that you do not have

If your questions are here for me to teach you, then that needs another approach. You need to clearly state you come in peace with no history of propaganda [what you might consider refutational activity] against Mawlid or other Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah beliefs and practices

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Nope, I am not angry, nor full of rage, nor jumping up and down [at present] although i do do this at times.

Good for you than.****

If your objection is to me and that ‘‘I said’’ …does it even need answering. This is not about me

You will have to be braver, if you actually object to the people who totally forbid Mawlid to be referred to as deviants and state this.

If your objection is to me, then that is neither here nor there

**Well, at least you got one part right this is not about you. And the other part is this is not about me too. It’s about deen, the way it was thought, the way it was followed by sahabas and that’s the way we need to follow. At least for me this is what it’s about. Now, I know for a fact from Quran and Haidths that Mawlid were not celebrated back than nor this was the teaching of ****RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. ******
So since you have been claiming that “Mawlids were celebrated back than too and it’s an active part of Islam and person who does not celebrate it is not from us (muslims)” so on and so forth. Hence my question to you is if that is your claim, prove it in the light of Quran and Sahi haidths?

Ok, you do not see that you both came with a similar shaitanic non islamic attachments clearly visible? and that you both agree with each other on Mawlid as well. The similarities are interesting

Shaitanic attachments??? Well I don’t know about the other person and at this point I don’t care. But could you point out my attachment?? BUT if you are once again referring to my previous signature, than don’t even bother. Because to me that is already dealt with.****

I understand, but what is it about Mawlid that you are contending? Is it that it that it is celebrated, is it that its a birth celebration or that its a birthday celebration? or do you say it is Bidah dalala [bad innovation], or it is Haram, or it is impermissible? or something else, like if you have to practice it?

Also 1400 years ago when the Deen was introduced to us we were given Shariah, this is what we use to see the permissibility of an act or occasion. Earlier you asked regarding who we follow and I said we follow Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, who in turn follow Tabieen and Sahaba who in turn followed RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, we WILL have to go back to this point because although you did not contend this point at the time, i think you failed to grasp the stark differences between our approach your approach [the salafi fallacy]

Allah says in the Quran: “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion” [Noble Quran 5:4]****
RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam****** said: “I have left behind me two things, if you cling to them you will never go astray. They are the Book of Allah and my Sunnah” [al-Hakim]******
And “…so cling to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs after me, even if it be with your teeth” [Bukhari]****
**And “every newly invented matter (in religion) is a bid’ah and every bid’ah is a dalaalah (misguidance) and every dalaalah is in the (hell) Fire.” [Reported by At-Tirmithi].

So my friend you tell me in lightof the above does you claim stands about Mawlid, which is it can be and should be celebrated??****

—Quote—
"This fact has been presented here to you. Its not something you are familiar with but its a FACT. Your trip up an innovated path which see such action as Shirk is not from Islam. That is why Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah built Mazaars from the east to the west, from the north to the south! Because the Muslims were keen on seeking aid at Qabars. Any way its a practice that we had had in our [Muslims] Entirety. You have me on record claiming this!

The reason you are surprised by this is because of the propagation of newer sects as I have mentioned. "

*Prove it, prove your above claim, can you?? I’m all ears to you. * —End Quote— Yes, this is certainly an area that I can prove, In Sha Allah

My believe is on Quran and sahi Ahadith and not because of any propaganda or any new sects. Hence I’m waiting for you to still prove you claims in light of Quran and sahi Ahadith.****

You were contending my words ‘‘like i said’’ so I explained, if you wanted me to prove my claims you need to object to the claim. You need to understand yourself what you are saying and doing.

Hmmm, well I thought I was. I thought asking one to prove one’s claim comes only after objecting to it. I thought you we paying attention.. I guess I thought wrong and I hope it’s clear to you know. If not ask.****

I notice you are concerned about how you look to others and another reference here to others. Dude there is no-one reading this

You say you are standing up to me, but its not exactly clear what you are standing up to me regarding. You have done your talking in questions, which do not clarify your view at all. I wouldn’t exactly call that standing up, I’d say it was a position so protective of your ego/pride/image that you wont even state your opinions. Btw since you have asked questions and not made statements, i am not encouraging you to make statements that you do not have.

Once again, I thought you were smart enough to get my questions right on the first place. I guess you can only talk nothing ells.****

By the way will have to try much more harder to get me upset. Making me sound as if I’m making it a personal issue by talking about ego, pride, image, propaganda, new sect will not even tickle me. In fact I suggest quit doing that.****

**You know what, i it might me difficult explaining yourself here or putting forward your proves or whatever it might me. So I’ll make it easy for you. I can meet you and talk about it that is if you are in same place as I am or I can call you. Maybe than you would be able to convenience me with proven facts that your claims false / **bid’ah / dalaalah. What say?

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

1.The Sahaba are the best generation of Muslims. their decisions have merit. If you are trying to say what they did not do automatically qualifies as Bidah dalalah [bad innovation] then this is not true. This is an extremism and a fallacy
The Sahaba RadiAllahu Anh themselves were at risk, like we are, of committing bidah [dalalah] and Bidah [hasanah]
2. Mawlid was celebrated, Honoured, Remembered during the time of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, they did not have an occasion called Mawlid
3. To be Happy at the Arrival [Mawlid] of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is Fard

There is some more mileage in it if you want to benefit. Both of you were carrying obvious signs of falsehood yet you came to agree on Mawlid. So even if you think Mawlid is bidah you need to remember you are involved in bidah and falsehood yourselves. Lets not have any pretension to being Mumins here

If you take on board what i am saying you can discuss Mawlid from a purely inquisitive point of view, respectful of those who Honour it.

In terms of Bidah Hasanah the completed and perfected Deen allows for it. For example the Mushaf [of the Quran] was not how we have it today at the time of this revelation
In terms of Bidah Dalalah the complete and perfected Deen has prohibited it with Shariah. And your Lord does not Forget! to include any rules
Everything is permissible unless prohibited by the Deen, not everything is impermissible unless commanded by the Deen. the latter is an incorrect understanding, and this what you are inferring to

Does not effect what we are talking about. The other more stronger version of this Hadith mentions the AhulBayt.
Shaykh Ninowy in his explanation of Aqeedah At-tahawwiyya makes the claim this hadith is fabricated, although the teaching from the Hadith text of clinging to the Quran and Sunnah is of course taught in the Quran

Yes

The definition of Bidah Dalalah that the Muslims have used in jurisprudence is every Bidah which is not in accordance with Islam[Shariah] is a misguidance and thus leads to hellfire
Every Bidah which is in accordance with The Shariah is Bidah Hasana [good innovation]

Your beliefs are the direct result of propagation by new sects, not just new sects but bidah dalala sects
For example its not beyond imagination that a few hundred years ago some layman claiming like yourself to follow Quran and Hadith would be put to death for heresy. let the incident about your signature be a reminder that you are not qualified nor knowledgeable to follow Quran and Sunnah as a Mujtahid, nor do you follow any possible valid interpretations of Quran and Sunnah at present.
The simple fact is your viewpoint did not exist before it was propelled by the newer sects, and as such it is the direct result of their propagation

This is another Subject - Qabar and Shirk related - a subject that i have written about much. We can talk about it, it needs its own time.

No, your contentions were not clear. For example a person can ask a question knowing the answer [which you were probably doing] and this infers you have a position which you would like to push. Otherwise the same questions can be asked by someone who is influenced by another thought but would like to know the Mainstream view. So if you are admitting you were asking questions for the purpose of refutation then I would consider that an act of cowardice, in how you have failed to actually state your views.

I am just stating facts which are at play. be tickled or be angry, or I quit doing that or i dont. Nothing of this bothers me

I have explained in detail that your contentions were not clear, not clear enough for my purpose which was to understand you and your point of view in detail before putting a hammer to it

Lets see how far we go here, and if there is things you want to say to me in private then we can possibly look at arranging that

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Brother … what I wrote is true and I can prove that too. Rather, I have written on the topic enough in past to prove that (and many others have written on the topic to prove that too), but I know that it would not matter to you, and your only purpose is sticking with what you believe or brainwashed to believe, and now try to propagate your beliefs that to us is ‘belief of ignorance’. Only difference is that, you are talking, but others with your belief would do suicide to stop us celebrating. :slight_smile:

In Quran, Allah says at various places that … if anyone see the proofs mentioned in Quran than it would be for his own good, and if anyone do not want to see the proofs than it would be his own loss. As for one who points the proof, their duty is only to point it out, and do not keep an eye on what others do (accept the proof or not).

Since I have pointed out the proof several times in past, I won’t argue neither I would like to care. Actually, I know that for some people, pointing out the proofs (that I have done several times) would make no difference, as they are not interested in knowing or learning, but their only purpose is argument, preaching what they believe or are told to believe, and that is all.

Actually, even though what you asked: Clear proof of celebrating Prophet (SAW) birthday from Quran, and concrete proof that Prophet (SAW) used to celebrate his birthday … I would tell you to forget that … I am not asking you to celebrate Prophet (SAW) birthday, neither I care, but it is ‘you and many others’ who want us Muslims NOT to celebrate Prophet (SAW) birthday … interfering in our beliefs and practices, and wanting us to get misguided and follow ignorance that they believe and follow, than, instead of asking for proof from us:

Why don’t you teach us so we can learn and I assure you that if you would do that, we would not insist in staying ignorant but would learn. You can do that (teaching) by giving us clear proof from Quran where it mentions that one **should not celebrate **birthday of Prophet (SAW) and **any concrete proof mentioning **that Prophet (SAW) **never celebrated his birthday? **

As for what I wrote earlier … mentioned below, I not only confirm it again, but believe on it 100 percent, so please read and think, which one of the 4 categories or groups you fall into :).

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Jub itneee bareee baree ulemaa of hadeess cannot resolve this issue in past how we can resolve this issue. Lets live and let live others . or in future we will be same like TTP or ISIS who firmly believes that any one not following their version of islam is wajib ul qatl.

If one follow eid melad un nabi in a respectable manner , good for him. If not still good for him

But for both parties it should not be a question of Kufr or Islam i.e. if you follow either side you are the best muslim no matter how low you are in following all other faraiz of islam, or plain Kafir no matter how good you are in other aspects of Islam.

Pl. be tolerant. Islam has very high challenges in front at the moment.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Dear all
Ahmad Raza was born in syed family and he was sayed but he died as Khan-----how comes? Any one in doubt, please consult his SHIJRA

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Dear brother – first all I would like to thank you for your polite manners – much appreciated.

All I can say that there are people who can get convinced by their own arguments – We should follow what the Blessed Quran demands of us that what the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said and practiced.

Do you know Shias also try to prove Imamate of Hz. Ali bin Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him)? Would you go along with their ‘proofs’

About me being brainwashed? Don’t you think I cay say the same about you?

Tch, Tch now you have put in the camp of suicide bombers :smack:

No doubt about what you wrote above. Nobody would disagree with that.

Now you are pre-judging me. I don’t think it is that a big effort on your part to present your ‘proofs’ yet again. If at all you are spreading the truth, your reward is with Allah Almighty for your efforts.

Allah Almighty is the Muqallib Al-Quloob (Turner of the Hearts) – Leave the Guidance to Him as this is His Domain.

Why should I forget what I am asking you for?

I have edited your quotation shown above – It stands corrected now.

Read: Listed below all followed the Blessed Quran and the Blessed Sunnah to the Word! And you will not disagree with this. Dare you!

My Dear brother I guess in haste you left out the fifth group:

Muslims who consider Prophet (SAW) as blessing of Allah Almighty, the day Prophet (SAW) born as day of blessing from Allah Almighty, and try to follow Islam according to the demands of the Blessed Quran, sayings and practices of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and the sayings and practices of the Blessed Companions (may Allah Almighty be pleased with them all) of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

And with every prayer thank the Almighty that He chose them to be from the Ummah of His Beloved Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

And pray to Allah Almighty to accept the efforts of those Muslims who celebrate (or would like to celebrate) blessing and the day of blessing from Allah as Eid-e-Milad-ul-Nabi as they do this to show their love and devotion (as long as they don’t go overboard with the celebrations) of His Beloved Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him).

I will consider myself among the above, I hope you don’t mind.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

*I’m not convenience about any of your reply. Reason being, just like your other posts this too is just hollow talks and examples. No solidarity in it at all. Hence I feel there is no point in writing more. However my offer of doing this in person still stands. I live in Dubai but I’m from Lahore. Meeting in these two cities will be possible, if not that I’m ready to call you or you call me. I’m ok wz both. You can send me a PM to ask for my number or to give me yours.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Well i think you have learnt from my post. the issues are not crystal clear to you but you have learnt a great deal

As for contacting me, those cities are not places I have plans to visit. We can possibly talk on phone or through internet, do you have a specific reason for wanting this? more details the better

If you want to insult or swear at me, I am available through pm here, and i wont grass!
And if you want to learn about traditional Islamic views on subjects including Mawlid i can share my own sources with you. This would be better for you to learn, if your purpose is to learn

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Due to aqeedah differences we would not accept the people totally against Mawlid, so I claim Ijma on the permissibility of Mawlid as per Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. So we do not accept any ‘‘ulemaas’’ who are totally against Mawlid, and some ‘‘ulemaas’’ who are not totally against mawlid

This issue is actually resolved unless you want to re-interpret islam, in which case it would be a cult because they left the Jamaah, in which case they are the cause of division, and to unite with them is not unity or strength but disunity and weakness

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

I believe even Ulema who dont follow Eid melad , will not have problem if some boundries are drawn about how to make Milad. In case if there is are seerat conferences and Naat competition ( not in the songs tune ) and Qiraat competition No one shud have any problem. But not to make resembles of KAABA and MASJID NAbVI and other rituals which has nothing do to with islam.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

The rejecters of Mawlid have different deviances. They actually reject ALL forms of Mawlid. So your belief about them is incorrect.
Also there has been a big propaganda drive against Mawlid, in the tune of the above total rejection of Mawlid. They not only have a problem with it but their problem reaches deeper then that.
Mawlid Shareef are not the same as seerat conferences, but the ruling on them with regards to innovation[bidah] would be similar

Muharamaat [prohibited] acts during Mawlid Shareef gatherings are not allowed by any one. If an individual does prohibited acts its just his own wrong deed.
I am not aware of resembles of Kaaba and Masjid Nabvi being part of any particular Mawlid, heretical acts can be done with them but picture/model making of Kaaba or Masjid Nabvi is not outright prohibited, to the best of my Knowledge

To perfect Mawlid, and to make all Mawlid gatherings/celebrations a perfect example of following Shariah would be a praiseworthy effort, but what you will find is that acts of jahiliya by individuals are used as part of the argument to prohibit Mawlid completely! As we have seen on this thread, its been attempted.

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

Sa1eem said he was not going to argue so I do not know whether he will come back to answer these points. I am not arguing either, i am telling and correcting which In Sha Allah @Ibn_Sadique will accept first time round

I too use the word Honoured for the celebration of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam of the day of His Blessed Birth.
However in the above you have denied this is celebration. This is an incorrect assumption and a lie. The Prophetic Celebration or allowance for celebration is often found in this way. RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam can be said to have honoured, commemorated, celebrated and Grateful for His Blessed Arrival and Mawlid.
However the Ummatti Believers due our third party [dependent] status can add ‘‘rejoice’’ to the list of allowed sentiments:

O mankind! The advice has come to you from your Lord and a cure for the hearts - and guidance and mercy for believers. Say, “Upon Allah’s munificence and upon His mercy - upon these should the people rejoice”; this is better than all the wealth they hoard. [Surah Yunus 10:57-58]

An alternative translation of the Ayat is: Say Upon the Fadl and Mercy of Allah, let them show joyous celebration..

The Mawlid of Nabi SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was celebrated in poetry in gatherings which can be described as positively ‘‘celebration’’

The People of Medina:
I hadnever seen the people of Medina so joyful as they were on the arrival of Allah’s Messenger,

this is Mashur from Hasan bin Thabit Radiallahu anhu:
***My eyes have not seen a person better than you; No woman ever gave birth to a person more beautiful than you! You were created flawless, without the slightest blemish; It seems you were created according to your wish!

From The Uncle of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam;
"
When you were born, the earth was shining, and the firmament barely contained your light, and we can pierce through, thanks to that radiance and light and path of guidance."

Directly in Hadiths from The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam:

"
It is the day on which I was born and on which I received the DivineRevelation"

"
I have been sent (as an Messenger)in the best of all the generations of Adam’s offspring since their Creation."

“I was cast into the clay of Adam and was the promise of my father Ibrahim and the good news of Eisa ibn Maryam”

"
I am the Prophet! This is no lie. I am the son of `Abd al-Muttalib!"

To Combine all this in a gathering [that we refer to as Mawlid] is here:

Muawiyah, may Allah be pleased with him, narrates: Verily the Messenger of Allah went
to a circle - meaning of his companions – Then asked what has caused you to conduct a
gathering? So they said we have sat down to do dua to Allah, and to praise him for
guiding us on his religion, and for favouring us by sending you to us. He said By Allah
is that the only reason? They replied Yes we swear by Allah that is the only reason. He
said I have not made you take an oath to doubt you, verily Jibrael, may salaam be upon
him, came to me and told me that Indeed Allah Almighty, is boasting of you in gathering
of the angels.

Most of the references taken from: Commemorating the Noble Birth of the Holy Prophet
Translation of the Hadith from Sunan Nasai from ''Objections on celebrating Mawlid" by Mohammad Bilal Naushahi

This post is not meant to answer birthdays or any annual commemoration, just the idea of Celebration of Mawlid Shareef, but I would be willing to have a go at answering such an objection. Although it can be said such an objection is just for perfecting Mawlid, not a total prohibition. In Short the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah do not restrict Mawlid to any particular day, and as such all the days including popular days such as 12th Rabi Al Awal are available for Mawlid to be commemorated. The advice is not to limit it to one day either

As for the common people, and other people, any individual who jumps for joy [rejoice] with Happiness at the Arrival [Mawlid] of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is portraying an act from the acts of the people of Heaven:

Qul bifadli Allahi wabirahmatihi fabithalika falyafrahoo

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

The only thing I’ve learned is Mashallah your English is good, better than mine. That’s it. Nothing more.

If not these cities then which ones. Traveling for me is not an issue, I work for an airline. Talking over the phone!!! Well why not, I game for that to. Why I’m so keen in doing that. Hmm, well I want to give you another and a fair chance in convincing me of your view point / claims and proving me wrong of mine and of my objection.

Insulting and swearing at someone (Muslim or others) is not deen. Swearing reduces Rizk. I hope you got my answer.

In order to teach me you have to convince me that you are right and my take on the topic and other related once are wrong. Can you?

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

I am not a teacher, and I have no personal desire to convince you myself. I was only going to ‘‘oppose’’ your objections on Mawlid including the basis of your views. Not teach you to benefit you, or impose my views on you, but impose Islamic views on the subject. There is slight differences here

Better then talking to me listen to my Imams who have Ijaza to teach. Shall I make a small list for you?

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

  • You are not a teacher / alim…. I now that, why do you thing I’m still not excepting your claims. This also brings me to suggest you to take it easy on your fatwas of Kufur and so on. I’m sure you didn’t realise but let me tell you it’s a very big thing. Especially when you are not an authorised person.

  • Was only going to oppose…. In order to oppose also you need reasons (which I guess you have) and in order to stand by your reasons and prove them correct you should have proof (which you don’t have or you fail to provide).

  • *List of Imams …. ***Thank you brother, I have the list already. **

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Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti

I am as well placed as anyone else on the forum to speak, and my right is what they are using as their right. I can highlight what i think is kufr, i can say what I have been taught and believe in to be kufr, I can say I believe such and such position is deviant..and so on.
Also I do have indicators that my involvement has had a beneficial impact on some of the posters, be it an unwelcome, unwanted, not liked impact.

You are welcome to re-ignite our talk [from where we left off], or wait for Ibn sadique to do the talking for you, as I’m sure he will not allow me to say something which is incorrect. Silence in Islam can be taken as approval

Its kinda feels right to be bullying ahul bidah positions even after all they have put in of effort to cement their positions in the minds of people, and to use their language Bidaaat, deviant, Bidaatti, Kafir, KUFR, Mushrik,…its like sweet justice

Not everything is provable to another person. He who is destined to be a kafir, for example, can not be helped.
In order for you to say I have failed to prove an issue to you, you must carry on talking to me for a sufficient period of time [which would be years, or more then our lifetimes in some cases]

And btw I do not claim that I can prove to you. I can claim I can prove such and such position as being Islamic. There is a difference. The matter can be settled, perhaps i can take you to the pond, perhaps you wont drink.

The Mawlid Shareef debate can be resolved

up to you
This conversation is not really worth it because you have given up the subject so now you sound like you just want to score a point against me personally. Dude that is not a big feat, set your goals higher