Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Would ALL pronunciations of his name be rejected if not found in Islamic sources? What about German or Spanish pronunciation of his name?
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Thanks brother Psyah for taking the time to respond in such detail.
I don’t think validation of truth is dependent on honesty/dishonesty. If I jump up, doesn’t matter what my intention is, the creator’s law of the universe comes into play and I fall down. That’s ‘reality’. Something that can be observed by any human being with any faith/intention. Something that cannot be validated like that may also be true. We can use inferences from other established truths to get close to them. That’s the kind of truth that people have divided opinions about. Because there is space/openness for division there. Nothing wrong with that division. In the context of religion, that kind of truth is faith. People believe in different things that they think are true. They get too emotionally attached to these things. Add to it the possibility of burning forever in hell for some of these beliefs and you get an explosive situation.
So the different sects are there because they do not know the tools or are not using them with honesty? I would not question their honesty but would rather say that the tools are not sufficient.
I think you are mixing truth and false with good and bad. You can do good in many ways and it may depend on intentions but I won’t say the same for truth. Mutli-facted? yes, but depends on sincerity? I don’t think so.
I understand this but I think in the context of religion, not all the differences of opinions lead to respect of other groups. They also lead to hating other people. e.g., some people think Milaads are bid’at, some people think Shia are kafir, many people think qadianis are kafir, some people think gustakh e rasool are wajib ul qatl, some people think those who leave islam are wajib ul qatl.
Reaching closer to each other should be the aim. Your path to it seems to be religion and religious discussions, mine is the avoidance of religious discussions as I believe it leads to more harm than good. I think faith is something personal. Discussions about this is allowed in Islam and that is not is a meaningless discussion in my opinion as we then start giving ‘pseudo’ evidences which can be interpreted in any way and thus the argument that whether something is allowed or not cannot be settled about many things. Hence, it is better to leave everybody practice according to their own understanding of what is allowed and what is not.
I agree with this but perhaps I am interpreting it for my own convenience.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Peace brother MangoMan
And thank you too for a decent discussion, although I would like to clarify on my use of the word sincerity, but will leave it for another time. I note you said something in your last post which is quite interesting … It is about having something that anyone can observe with or without faith … Well it was Imam Al-Ghazali (RA) who explained that certain things are testable … Dzikr of Allah (SWT) and His prophet (SAW) really does increase the presence They have with us … It needs only to be tested … Or tried out … Perhaps one day you will attend a gathering with the intention to find spirituality rather than to find problems … And get some proof …
What you seek, seeks you … Rumi
One day I had a burning desire to know the truth and swore that I would not let anything sway my sincerity, but for Allah (SWT) to show it to me … And today I find myself on this path … Would you say I have been given misguidance for a plea that came without any strings attached with the most earnest du’a I have ever made? And I am not frozen in this predicament … I’m ready to change when truth comes to me and I adjust and move based on what I am shown … If I can do it … Others can too …
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Too deep I guess.. :hmmm:
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Jisne wo sher likha, naahee uss ne lighton ka sawab liya, naahee uss ne bachon ko khana diya
Bhar haal uss ki baat hi thi khyali, jahan lightein wahan thi bhi langar ki thali
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
**Brother I know the basic difference.. ok, let me rephrase my question. Who is given permition to celebrate Mawlid? How is it proven that mawlids are to be celebrated? What are the references?
So are you saying that RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam by action or said or thought that everyone should be celebrating mawlids? And that the Shabas did it in turn Tabieens did it and it’s continuing till now. ??? please provide proven references.
****Once again, if you are saying Traditional Islam was or is to celebrate mawlids, visiting Qabars or peers, asking help from them, which would mean you are saying these were the teachings of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam or maybe his actions from where the Sahabas picked it up, tabieens picked it from sahabas and it continued. This would mean Sahabas use to celebrate Mawlids every year and so on. Is this what you are saying. If yes than please provide proven reference, if not than as you rightly said we are not to take new ideas into account over Islam now that Islam has been established. We are warned in Hadith about hearing new things / innovations and anything additional in Islam is a biddah.
Sorry brother I don’t see any reference or proven reference provided by you for your arguement.
Thank you for your advice about my Signature. I had writing it playfully but YES it was not right.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Well the school of thought you follow, do not even accept the criticism of Sahabah(RA). Maulana Maududi did that in an academic fashion yet got fatwas of kufar.
If you are destined to travel/strugle more than others and you are ok with that you might get more reward. Making it deliberate like, taking a wrong turn to pain yourself to reach masjid is not what we are supposed to do. These calculations of ajar are upto Allah(swt), I believe.
Right Milaad is not part of Islam.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Peace ajazali
And it is not bid’a to do it with that intention, please admit that part too … As it is the internal consistency that is important. In essence the mawlid celebration allows us to reach our goal to love RasoolAllah (SAW) better … It preserves that state. The Sahabah were not in the state we are in because they had proximity, we don’t have it.
Regarding Maulana Maududi … And my school … What is that about, because I have no idea?
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
A thing which is not part of Islam may or may not be bidat, but since Sahaba (RA) didnt do that so I cant say much.
Regarding Maulana Maududi would be off topic, shall discuss some other time.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
icon mein kia rakha hay manwa :cobra: baqol u keh milad mana fard hay tou jo sahabah yah milad nah mana sakay halankah yeh fard tha to un ka kia banay ga 
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
me u k sath mutafiq hon :cobra:
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
I did write a longer reply to you but its been lost in the editor as i pushed the post button
however I did not use any references [again] but offered you counselling and more advice on the mistakes you are making for example on Bidah
Which I will rewrite - The Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah - the great majority of Muslims are vouched for in the religion. So what they decide upon and any Ijma they reach is Religion and good to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala, any overwhelming practice they follow has to also be respected. So the warning I was referring to about new things is not the practices Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah considers Good, but these new voices such as yours
I mean you, yesterday, was calling upon Shaitan [the rejected by Believers] and you give support to a person idolising pictures of an indian idol [a prohibited practice]. Even if you were jesting [playfully] its ruling would be one of impermissibility [haram] or kufr! Make tawba, no joke. seek other opinions on it if you like
Any way this should tell you that if you are against mawlid, you should not hold your own opinion as dependable. You should fully accept that your views or questioning of Mawlid Shareef are to be rejected even by yourself
Admittedly your questions are questions which i should be answering for dawa under normal circumstances but they are questions and not statements which need a reply. I have for my part already posted sufficient amount of proofs in this thread and the other thread in culture forum to validate Mawlid from a direct from Quran and Sunnah point of view
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
I present to you the biggest cause of secularised mindset in Muslims and the reason for lack of solidarity and unity:
In short: I am the only believer here. Anyone who disagrees with me is either a deviant, kafir, mushriq or something like that.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
HERE WE GO AGAIN..
Maybe I’m not making myself clear or you are nor reading my posts properly or maybe avoiding the Questions to be answered.
I’m not asking for your advice brother. I’m asking you to support your arguments with proven references please. Can you do that? If not we end this here.
Once more, as per you Ahulus Sunnah wal Jamaah had an ijma and decided that Mawlids, going to Darbars, asking peers for help is a good thing and should be done. Can you please provide the Ijma reference, when did it take place, were, who were the Scholars included in it and the Fatwa given by whom on what bases of prove?
Sorry brother, but you are misinterpretation my previous signature, and trying to make me look bad, and deviate from the main argument. As I mentioned yesterday, why I did it and thank you again for making me realize that it was wrong. Thou this is between me and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala but still I’ll tell you that I did my tawba and I hope this clears you and is not repeated.
“and you give support to a person idolising pictures of an indian idol”**** can you please explain where did this come from, what are you talking about ???
Trust be brother my opinion is not JUST MY opinion. Lets take this thread as an example, how many are there who are into celebrating Mawlids and giving baseless argument AND or the other hand how many are not celebrating and given ample of references why it should not be celebrated..
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
**Each and Every Muslim when we say Darood Sharif daily we are thankful to Allah Subhanahu Wataala for sending to us our Holy Prophet, is not that a celebration of his birth?
so what is the argument?**
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Thanking for guidance from a prophet in general is different from worship.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
Dont worry about your questions, i have not sworn to not answer them. We will get back to proofs of Mawlid, as i have already posted my references so its a matter of copy and paste from another post
Also you do not have a controlling share in when i present an Islamic reference. I decide that.
With regards to your signature you have reacted brilliantly since. I cant fault you for your reaction on this. It takes courage to admit a fault. However it should be a warning to you that you should be weary of your own judgement on issues such as Mawlid too. So i am asking you to admit the chance of you being wrong on Mawlid exists. Without this your repentance on being misguided enough to present your self as a shaitan can be seen to be only so you, with the same ego, can have a dig at Mawlid. Get me?
The picture avataar of jasos is what i was referring to. It is a similar mistake to yours and you both agree on Mawlid as well . The ruling on it can be gauged from here:
Prohibition of making pictures in Islam | Animated life Camera Draw facial
Pictures in Islam - LET US CORRECT OUR ISLAMIC FAITH
So both of you are or were involved in Haram and Bidah, and its propagation in society. This is important to note when you take the high ground on Mawlid. This is what I meant
Also with regards to what people on here are saying I have recently stated that ‘‘so much money has been spent on propagation of the wahabi sect that there will be very few of us not at least influenced by them’’.
With regards to Ijma of Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaah on Mawlid, like i said earlier, Any who totally forbids Mawlid is a Mubtadi [An Innovator]
Any one who can call gatherings [of Mawlid] to :
Recite Quran
Recite naat of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Listen to Speeches by Ulema on The Life of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam
Making Dua
…anyone who can calls these gatherings to be impermissible is a Mubtadi [a deviant]
The above gathering is Mawlid and it is a part of what the deviants have forbidden [with no authority to do so]
Such a person can not be from us
With regards to Qabars and seeking of aid/getting aid there - This has been a practice of the Muslims ummah in our ENTIRETY
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
No you have stated your reasons in another thread - that it is was perhaps an accident that you were born into Muslims - This cursing of your lineage shows shows your stance is deeper ingrained then the two conversations i have seen you be involved in.
I only argue against seriously misguided people [meaning against seriously misguided views] or against out and out Kafirs
So the likely hood of the above traits being seen in them is high
They have bullied my people and my way long enough. Its a pleasure for me to pay back with their language in the same style as them. We have multidimensional influences these day. They taught me to be like i am, so its only right that i give something back
btw i have been nice to you, well that’s as nice as i can get. Its your ingrained stance mentioned above that you are seeing in me being the opposite of.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
So, admitting lack of knowledge = cursing. You learn something new every day!
By the way, if you were born in a remote village in China, your religious views would have been very very different from what they are now. Being born in a particular country or religion is ALWAYS an accident.
I suspect if the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came back to this world, people would call him misguided and stuff.
Who gave you the authority to call people misguided or kafir? Such labeling is what caused Muslims to stay 1,000 years behind rest of the world.
So, keep fighting among yourselves but please do not blame me for lack of unity among Muslims. That is your own doing.
I never said you have been not nice.
What I am only pointing out that you see everything from the lens of sectarianism and label anyone and anything you do not agree with as deviant, kafir, mushriq, hindu and so forth. Both of these result in lack of unity among Muslims and disenchantment from religion of people like me (that Psyah was pointing out).
There are three stages I have to go through before parsing your (and other comments) on this forum:
-
Religion is faith based. Which means there is inherent lack of evidence for ANY religion being true. You can never be sure 100% that the religion you follow is true.
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Religion can be interpreted in several ways. This can easily be seen in several schools of thoughts and sects in every religion. You can never be sure that the sect you follow is 100% correct on something that differs in interpretation among several sects. Therefore, considering something 100% correct just because a majority of a sect that you subscribe to agree on it is not a good enough reason.
-
If there is a God, then that God would have the final authority on deciding who is Kafir who is not. YOU DON’T have that authority and therefore you should cool down your fatwa issuing machine.
Thank you and keep rambling on.
Re: Eid milad un nabi is biddat - Saudi mufti
RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam received opposition from the People, except a few, when He SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was sent to us. Since then a people took RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam as their Master and Rasool and Recognized Him as the exalted Servant of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala, these people are the Believers known as Mumin and ..Muslim.
Many differences among people can be set aside, Many differences can not. For example if a sect says you are all mushrik, or your beliefs are mushrik…then that forms a difference that can not be set aside.
Similarly if I was to argue with the people of truth whilst propagating falsehood myself - that would be a deviant activity whether done by myself or by any one else
The topic at hand here is one of the differences which would deem one of the parties deviants - be it the sect which commemorates Mawlid [Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah] or the newer protestant type movements which forbid Mawlid to be commemorated.
The truth of who is right and wrong is in the Quran and Sunnah, which further validates aspects of the Shariah which we should use to then make decisions on validity of a certain action, deed or sin.
What you are saying is not from our religion it is a form of perennialism. We do stop people from giving dawa to falsehood. We do speak on protecting the correct interpretation of the faith. This is very important to us.
Over doing this would be falsehood. For example making ‘‘deviant’’ claims on a view which does not qualify to be regarded as deviant is a falsehood and a deviant practice itself.
unfortunately you live in an era when people who regard the accepted views of traditional Islam as having been upon shirk [kafirs] and deviance [bidaattis]. And they have money to push these views out to the people..which they have done.
All in all this leaves me plenty of fodder to sqwat. I told you to go Worship Allah Ta’ala and find Nearness to our Rabb Most Merciful, and not get involved in these debates, nor view them. This was sincere advice. I personally need to tackle these people for the time being at least