Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
seriously? so you are questioning loyalty of everyone who voted for PMLN, PPP and Mqm? i mean, are you serious? and shame on everyone who voted for these parties? wow
over 70% of Pakistanis voted for these parties. while i may disagree with many of policies of these parties i would never ever question the loyalty of those who voted for them.
so you and your so called PTIans are only patriotic folks in this country?
Get used to it :D
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Get used to it :D
chup karo...you established traitor ;)
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
...In the US or the UK, political parties in the end, regardless of their policies, are aiming to better the country. There .... you can't question their loyalty or love for their country.......
Their loyalty and love for their country can be questioned and is questioned frequently in the media and hearings, specially in context of special interest lobbying groups.
However, their loyalty is not questioned by generals in their military who have absolutely no power or training to do so.
I wish our military stayed away from being the judge of peoples' loyalties.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
seriously? so you are questioning loyalty of everyone who voted for PMLN, PPP and Mqm? i mean, are you serious? and shame on everyone who voted for these parties? wow
over 70% of Pakistanis voted for these parties. while i may disagree with many of policies of these parties i would never ever question the loyalty of those who voted for them.
so you and your so called PTIans are only patriotic folks in this country?
yes you have every right to criticize any political party but no sir, you dont have right to start shaming people or questioning their loyalty if they vote for them. this is a very dangerous trend. imagine people start questioning PTIans loyalty tomorrow. there is no end to it and it will cause so much nafrat among masses with each other
this your mindset of putting yourself on the driving seat of so-called moral roller-coaster and questioning everyone's loyalty is the main problem. i dont know what is it is, so much arrogance, or so much naiveness?
This is how it works in PTI ideology:
PTI- all patriotic and loyal. Period!
TTP- All patriotic and loyal, but little bit misguided, thats all. Period!
Any other group who does not agree with PTI is traitor to say the least, but they can get temporary certificate of loyality from PTI if they somehow can benefit a cause or provide support to PTI on any issue...recent example is MQM...
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
seriously? so you are questioning loyalty of everyone who voted for PMLN, PPP and Mqm? i mean, are you serious? and you are saying that shame on everyone who voted for these parties...really? wow
?
What they deserve the pic I posted...
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
LOL 
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Their loyalty and love for their country can be questioned and is questioned frequently in the media and hearings, specially in context of special interest lobbying groups.
However, their loyalty is not questioned by generals in their military who have absolutely no power or training to do so.
I wish our military stayed away from being the judge of peoples' loyalties.
The funniest part is that how swiftly we use the example of western countries when it matches our opinion only.
So the way they keep their armies within the limits of their domain, we dont want to drag it here as soon as it clashes our judgements.. how sweet :D
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
The funniest part is that how swiftly we use the example of western countries when it matches our opinion only.
So the way they keep their armies within the limits of their domain, we dont want to drag it here as soon as it clashes our judgements....
Also, the 'corrupt Pakistani politician' argument is pure BS.
For most of the history of Pakistan, it has either been military or military-backed governments in power. Not a single politician of significance has ever been convicted of corruption. Rather, these 'traitor' politicians have been propped up, funded and backed by military all the time.
The military must, therefore, bear at least some responsibility for politicians being corrupt.
Meetha meetha hup, karwa karwa thoo.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Also, the 'corrupt Pakistani politician' argument is pure BS.
For most of the history of Pakistan, it has either been military or military-backed governments in power. Not a single politician of significance has ever been convicted of corruption. Rather, these 'traitor' politicians have been propped up, funded and backed by military all the time.
The military must, therefore, bear at least some responsibility for politicians being corrupt.
Meetha meetha hup, karwa karwa thoo.
U got that right, it is military who brought forward bhutto dynasty, sharif dynasty, Ch. Bros, Altaf Hussain, SSP... And now their latest addition to above was Imran Khan and TTP...
Military atleast now stay away and let the leadership evovle.... That is only way forward...in due course, put pressure on politicians to bring following amendments
1) No MNA or MPA shall get anything called development funds.
2) each MNA and MPA shall personally look over the medical and educational facility in their respective constituencies. Fail to improve shall make them disqualified for good.
3) All govt officials, politicains and public post holders shall be obliged by law to send their kids in govt schools and colleges and clinics and hospitals only.
These three amendments will be start of our journey to prosperous Pakistan, new Pakistan...
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
From a historical prespective, yes the military has maintained its significant influence in domestic and foreign policy affairs. Within that period it has also groomed its proteges to do their bidding.
However, since 2007 after the forced removal of CJ under the dictator things started to change and much of the civil society stood up to this blatant power grab thanks largely due to the open media and much awareness in the public in being vocal and critical of the military and politicians alike.
The passage of the 18th amendment was also a turning point in trimming the power from one branch of the govt. In the current climate, its seems very unlikely or in the near future that any general would go on a misadventure for the halls of power being mindful of these changes and severe public retribution.
The current COAS is doing a fine job for the security situation in the country and that how it should be for any future general (army overall) without meddling in internal affairs.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
The current COAS is doing a fine job for the security situation in the country and that how it should be for any future general (army overall) without meddling in internal affairs.
yes he is doing a great job with the security situation but at the same time he has taken full control of foreign affairs. is this also part of his job? That PMLN may not be a competent govt is not the right answer to justify army's strategy to control department of foreign affairs...at least not per our constitutional framework but if our army cannot live without controlling foreign affairs, why not make it constitutional and give them a legal seat at BOD level.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Also, the 'corrupt Pakistani politician' argument is pure BS.
For most of the history of Pakistan, it has either been military or military-backed governments in power. Not a single politician of significance has ever been convicted of corruption. Rather, these 'traitor' politicians have been propped up, funded and backed by military all the time.
The military must, therefore, bear at least some responsibility for politicians being corrupt.
Meetha meetha hup, karwa karwa thoo.
BTW we all ( supposedly Army bashers ; while I strongly dont like this term coz we are not army basher rather critical to decisions of top level generals ) need to be very care ful. There are ppl who are monitoring your activitives on the net ...
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
..
Military atleast now stay away and let the leadership evovle.... That is only way forward...in due course, put pressure on politicians to bring following amendments
1) No MNA or MPA shall get anything called development funds. 2) each MNA and MPA shall personally look over the medical and educational facility in their respective constituencies. Fail to improve shall make them disqualified for good. 3) All govt officials, politicains and public post holders shall be obliged by law to send their kids in govt schools and colleges and clinics and hospitals only.
These three amendments will be start of our journey to prosperous Pakistan, new Pakistan...
I recommend anotehr way... There live hopefully in every constituency , one Army personnel of Major and above rank... Make them MNA and run the country for 5 years ( if more than one than make the one who is from well off family , or make a left- right - left competition , who ever wins got selected ) . Hope fully u will see a prosperous pakistan in 90 days. All constituencies will look like DHA . BTW I doubt army is gonna accept it ;-)
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
and some more thankyouraheelsharif](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=thankyouRaheelSharif)
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
yes he is doing a great job with the security situation but at the same time he has taken full control of foreign affairs. is this also part of his job? That PMLN may not be a competent govt is not the right answer to justify army's strategy to control department of foreign affairs...at least not per our constitutional framework but if our army cannot live without controlling foreign affairs, why not make it constitutional and give them a legal seat at BOD level.
Yes make it constitutional.
What is the value of words said by Nawaz Sharif in UNO? Do you really think that world will take his speech seriously at any level?
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Army does not need any defending on this forum that contributes very little in my opinion to projecting an image of Pakistan. This forum represents very little of Pakistan. There is virtually no traffic on this forum and I see no point for you to waste your energies and post them long long essays :P .
As i se the traffic though it is reduced but still it is better than some other around
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Yes make it constitutional. ?
I strongly agree to that.
In any case army is running our foreign policy for long but not being accountable for its failure or success.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Yes make it constitutional. What is the value of words said by Nawaz Sharif in UNO? Do you really think that world will take his speech seriously at any level?
i dont understand it ajaz
nawaz is elected PM of pakistan..before he left for UNO, he met raheel sharif as well. so why wont world take his speech seriously?
an kindly let us know what do you want? COAS to go and address UNO? that would be so embarrassing. even if we make COAS involvement constitutional, i think he will not be addressing UNO.
we are so confused. on one end we want democracy to flourish but on the other end we keep badmouthing our Prime ministers...just take one stand.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
Pakistan Invents a Bipolar (Civil-Military) Form of GovernmentÂ*|Â*Liaquat Ali Khan
The old adage that necessity is the mother of invention is fully operational in Pakistan. Out of necessity of dealing with a powerful military, which has in the past overthrown civilian governments a few times, a new reality is emerging in Islamabad. The civilian government of Nawaz Sharif has accepted the role of the military as a co-partner in state affairs and the military under the command of General Raheel Sharif has realized the necessity of political institutions for a fragile country composed of complex ethnic dynamics.
Prime Minister Sharif selected General Sharif as the Chief of Army Staff and General Sharif saved the Prime Minister from being overthrown by disgruntled forces. Both Sharifs, the inventors of bipolarity, are popular among the people. Both are calm in demeanor and meet regularly to share common concerns.
The emerging bipolarity is more than a personal alliance between the two Sharifs. The bipolarity appears to be gathering the approval of many politicians, media houses, high judiciary, and most importantly, the people of Pakistan. Except for political puritans who wish to subordinate the military to the civilian government, most political operatives understand that neither generals alone nor politicians alone can take the country forward through the sticky muddle of geopolitical challenges and domestic problems.
2015-10-02-1443796463-2224450-Bipolargovernment.png
Several factors have shaped the bipolar form of government.
The generals have realized that the people of Pakistan do not support military governments and become restless soon after the military coup and wish to restore electoral politics. Long military rules, such as in some Arab countries, are unmaintainable in Pakistan. Pressure for restoring democracy becomes intense when arch-enemy India successfully meanders through periodic elections and mocks Pakistan for its political instability.
The generals have also realized that a military government that has overthrown the constitution is more vulnerable to international blackmail from influential countries. For example, General Musharraf, succumbing to the U.S. pressure after 9/11 terrorist attacks, agreed to a set of policies that brought civil war to Pakistan. Furthermore, Western economic sanctions routinely imposed on military regimes that overthrow civilian governments hurt the country and the military itself. Pakistan’s nuclear assets also come under scrutiny when there is constitutional turmoil.
The politicians have realized that the military enjoys tremendous goodwill among the people. Alienating or ignoring the armed forces in decision-making processes complicates rather than simplifies the mechanics of governing. The military is desperately needed to fight militants who challenge the writ of the state. A peaceful nation with no conflicts, such as Switzerland, has little need for a strong military. Pakistan, a nation at war with a formidable neighbor and surging militants, cannot discount the value of the military. The simple truth is that Pakistan cannot survive without a strong and self-confident military.
Pakistan is a highly diverse country with numerous linguistic, ethnic, and cultural groups. The linear military consciousness and the law and order approach that the military brings is useful but inadequate in composing workable compromises for solving problems. Politicians are good at connecting with their respective provinces, ethnicities, and constituencies. Political parties, though messy and unethical, are indispensable for weaving social harmony and diffusing ethnic tensions. A bipolar civil-military government offers a superior platform to deal with rogue factions.
With free press and independent judiciary, the cost of maintaining military dictatorship has risen tremendously. It is no longer possible to repress a vibrant media that has taken roots in the last decade. If the military takes over in violation of the constitution, the media houses are unlikely to lay low and accept whatever the generals do. Likewise, the high courts are no longer willing to condone constitutional deviations and military coups. A naked military rule without judicial approval and in the teeth of protesting media would be simply unsustainable.
Political puritans, whether they are politicians, journalists, or judges, might resent a civil-military bipolar form of government. They may invoke the Western model of democracy or even the Indian model to argue that the military has no business in interfering with civilian affairs. Puritans forget that there is no one model of democracy that fits all nations. The United Kingdom works fine without a written constitution while the United States worships its constitution. Pakistan does not work under a linear government of generals or political parties. Pakistan works better when the military and civilians pool their respective competencies and expertise for solving problems.
The emerging bipolarity needs deliberate understanding and protection. It may be easily undermined if politicians or generals step outside their respective boundaries. A willful political leader or a willful military general can easily disturb the balance by overestimating his popularity or intelligence. The military cannot weaken the civilian government and politicians cannot provoke the generals. Regular contact between the ruling political party and generals on duty is critical for the maintenance of mutual trust and conducting efficient and competent government business. The media and the judiciary may serve as vigilant overseers in supporting the civil-military bipolarity.
Re: Does the military still control Pakistan?
i dont understand it ajaz nawaz is elected PM of pakistan..before he left for UNO, he met raheel sharif as well. so why wont world take his speech seriously?
See, you too believe that world takes Nawaz's speech seriously because he met Raheel before leaving.
[QUOTE]
an kindly let us know what do you want? COAS to go and address UNO? that would be so embarrassing. even if we make COAS involvement constitutional, i think he will not be addressing UNO.
we are so confused. on one end we want democracy to flourish but on the other end we keep badmouthing our Prime ministers...just take one stand.
[/QUOTE]
Its not about UNO only. We need courageous leadership. But if politicians rely on aids how can you expect they will meet the expectations of the nation.
Also the argument that democracy didnt get enough time in Pakistan to make us a developed nation makes no sense. As long as democracy is in the control of feudals you cannot expect something from democracy. Time is no guaranty to success but effort is, a revolutionary effort for providing people education. These feudal do every single thing to keep nation ignorant.