Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
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Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Because religion has kicked in to this thread, I cannot stay away as I am the Mufti-e-Azam of GS (ok that was a joke). Couple of things that I want to remind you about Nation Of Lot, as mentioned in Quran.
They were performing homosexuality as a choice. Though only men were involved, but women were in full support. 1) Lot’s wife ran to the men of the town to tell them about the good looking male guest that were staying at her house. 2) When the Azaab came, everyone including women got the punishment. These two points fully support my argument that the homosexuality was a choice and a hobby for the men, as women were equally involved in that “sport”. Of course if its done out of choice, there is no argument that being an unnatural act, it would be prohibited and counted as a major sin in all the religions.
But now, more and more medical researchers belief that homosexuality is not just a choice, but in fact a psychological disorder. I am gong to cut and paste from a pamphlet of American Psychological Association
“According to current scientific and professional understanding, the core attractions that form the basis for adult sexual orientation typically emerge between middle childhood and early adolescence. These patterns of emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction may arise without any prior sexual experience. **People can be celibate and still know their sexual orientation-–be it lesbian, gay, bisexual, or heterosexual.”
**Now let me ask all my religious brothers and sisters who are quoting the Hadees of prophet regarding killing both parties who are involved in homosexuality. Will you kill a man who, while born handicap, and out of no choice, committed a “crime”. May I remind you of a Hadees where a handicap Sahabi got involved in adultery. Prophet ordered him to be lashed 80 times, but by using a soft branch of a tree.
The problem with Ahaadees is that often they are used, and quoted out of context. That is why 90 out of 100 times, when you see a clash in Science and Islam, the clash is actually between Science and Hadees, and hardly between Science and Quran.
I am not trying to create a new religion. All I am saying is that when we know that Homosexuality could be state of mind, then why do we act so rigidly to impose shariah on each and every homosexual without using common sense.
And Mullah police, please keep the batons low on me. I have a roza.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
No and no.and never.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
think about it nadz. do you not want gays to have MILs like you? or are you happy seeing them happy?
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
@TLK The APA text doesn’t say it is a psychological disorder. I think those r ur words. (I feel funny opposing my Science guruji..Gustakhi maaf)
@nadz There are 6 questions in OP. Ur post has 2 no’s and one never. Are these for the last 3 questions?
yes those are my words. If being hetro is an order, then being homo is a disorder. I did not use it in derogatory way
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
I know u didn’t mean to. Things is neither needs to be considered a disorder. Just different lifestyles.
If it’s a lifestyle then it’s a choice
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
That logic is equally applicable to straight or otherwise. We are born one way or the other. And choose to live the way we r born. With an associated lifestyle.
To me the either or is an incorrect way of looking at it. It is not order vs disorder.
Everyone has a lifestyle. Based on culture religion orientation etc etc etc. Don’t see choice being part of the equation. Other than the fact we choose to live our lifestyle. Which is influenced by multiple factors.
The back or white approach may be easier to latch on to. But humans r far too complicated imo.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
TLK Bhai, When we refer such research, do we want to say that when Quran was revealing, God didn’t know his creation and the research points that are discovered later? But thats a totally different topic in itself.
Leave it and punishment aspect (which we are not talking here, they were brought when asked for condemnation of act by the Prophet), when an act has been pronounced sin, then whether its by choice or by some disability, is there anything bad when we don’t support its mass recognition and it shows intolerance on religious people’s part?
jab hamara apna koi beemar hota hai to do we think about his / her treatment or say ‘jao maro, bhugto iss beemari ko’? When we consider it a disorder (you referred a hadees of a handicap person), then we should pray for their shifa and not encourage by saying ‘its your born right. do whatever you do..’
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Reza Aslan (spelling) of Iranian origin is a theologian. He mentioned in Bill Moyers show that any scripture can be interpreted by different people for different ends. The same passage may mean different things to different people. Some use it for peace. Some for war. Some for unity. Some for division. Some to treat everyone equally. Some to use labels to represent people who are different.
Keep it simple. And use good judgment when interpreting passages.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
For the sake of clarification, sodomy is not subject to interpretation. Go find any interpretation which approves its public recognition as per scripture. The incident of Qom e Lut and their punishment is mentioned not at just one place in Quran. Its repeated at so many places calling the act ‘Fahisha’ (Vulgar act). When an act has been repeatedly called vulgarity and Islam put so much emphaise on hayya (modesty), then there won’t exist different interpretation, as far as considering this act as sin and even most liberal scholars will not dare to support mass recognition of this sin, if they call themselves Muslims (those who submit to the God’s commands).
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
OK. I concede that.
As long as govt gives them same benefits and privileges and doesn’t discriminate against them, as a liberal, it is not my business what scripture of a religion states. As long as there is no punishment for this lifestyle and there is true live and let live policy, the community would feel safe and have a level playing field.
Hopefully folks of all stripes can agree on this. (Most have I think).
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Yeh, If u Recite Holy QURRAN with translation and tafseer, u wil come to know that, not only homosexual People but also their supporterz were destroyed In Azaab, (qoum E Lout). Wake up guys, Khuda say daro.
Its nt about order or disorder. Its about Right and wrong. Anything that spreads Evil , bad anti natural things , should be stoped with hand in order to keep other people away frm it and to save them from jumping into “Kora Cricket”. I give u an example, you guys wil never watch cigreett Ads on TV. Reason ? Cz acording to Your western think Tanks, kids may Catch it.. So many asian and europen countries banned Cigrett ads in order to save their kids. When it comes to Gays , You guys becom Mufti e Azam to defend them. That is double standard. Anything that Spreads unrest in society e.g homosexuality of Cigrett Ads, should b stoped.,., i am mufti e Azam. @TLK is not.
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
What about gay animals?
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
I think in an earlier post Prince stated this will be stopped “by hand” in Muslim countries. In above post, Prince uses stop by hand earlier. And by machine gun later. All the while using scripture as justification.
In other words, he is advocating violence against a set of people. Or, he is stating the scripture advocates violence to stop such behavior.
How many agree with this stance?
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
^You are confusing this situation
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
How so? Your words. In two separate posts. Maybe you can provide clarification as go what you really meant?
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
Homosexuality is itself a violence that lends to diseases, degradation and unrest. Raise You voice against homoseuality and stop it
Re: Do gays deserve the same rights and access to benefits as the straights?
you mentioned that APA considers it a disorder? please show me where APA says its a disorder. as far as i know, they removed it from their disorder category in 1970’s, as did UK and other countries.
taken from APA website:
Is homosexuality a mental disorder?No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder.
http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/orientation.aspx?item=7
Royal college of psychiatrist have the same answer as well
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_2014.pdf