Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

This makes as much sense as saying that a girl who gets married in a house where she knows she'll have to put with drama from in-laws is more pious/better than if she were to marry into a house where she wouldn't have to put up with as much drama.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Awks tho.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

maybe she is.
if she is walking into drama with naik neeyat and makes a true effort to keep the peace then hats off to her.....

I never suggested that one who takes the path of least resistance is not good or moral or pious.....I'm merely suggesting that one who is not discouraged by a less than easy path may just be entitled to some extra credit from Allah.

at the end of the day, only Allah knows......

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Sorry but none of this makes any sense to me.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Piety is not an unreasonable rquirement. If that is what you are looking for, nothing wrong with that. However, if you do get married to a woman, and you realize after that she has had a past, I would suggest you be very careful and consider all the factors eg. Kids, families etc. Before making a decision because you may end up doing a lot of injustice to a lot of people who are involved.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

And those who said look for other things like morals, characters etc. Then, piety is a huge measure of character and self-control. However, someone who has repented and is now following the right path, then that also shows the strength of their character. Let Allah swt be the judge, He will only give you that which is better for you :-)

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

No, its not an unreasonable requirement at all. I feel piety is not the cookie cutter definition. I know a few virgins who would backstab you with no hesitation. What good did this abstinence do for them? Did it make them a God fearing person? Did Allah swt touch their hearts? Um no. It almost seems like they got lucky due to their environments. Is that piety? I find it hard to buy that a person who might abstain from sex is more pious than someone who might have given into that temptation in life at some point but has done more good around them than the virgin if that makes any sense - I am sure it doesn't/

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^makes perfect sense.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Since you didn't find the definition precise enough, you conveniently chose to mold it to your liking? No one is completely evil, or pious. Even the worst of us have done our fair share of good deeds. How shallow of you to suggest that people who have constantly fought the temptation are not any better than the ones who haven't just because you know a few virgins who aren't pious enough otherwise. Should that seal the argument then? Well I know a few non-virgins who would stick a knife in your back at the first opportunity. There.

Why should we assume that abstinence is the only good thing a virgin has ever done, and the non-virgin is a saint of a person? How about an 'all-else-equal' comparison? Like me, a person doesn't even have to be religious to find pre-marital sex wrong. I am a compulsive liar who believes in recycling, does it make me more pious than someone who doesn't recycle? Is a pedophile who gives away millions to cancer research more pious than all of us combined then?

Abstinence demonstrates character, morality and self-control. Like I said earlier, if they have done it in the past, what is stopping them from doing it again? How would you know that they have repented? You wouldn't know. There is no way you'd know.

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Reha put it quite beautifully.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

*Correction - abstinence CAN demonstrate the above. It does NOT equate that. If you want to get mean about it then who's to sat the virgin hasn't done just about everything else aside from the actual act? Or what about those surgeries that are so popular in the middle east nowadays? *

**There's a lot of gray area on BOTH sides my friend - which is why I say abstinence is NOT the deciding factor for me when it comes to piety. It simply isn't because your faith is your belief in Allah swt. If you abstain from sex but make out and do everything else - its the same as reading namaz five times a day because your parents force you. Not because you believe in what you're doing or even understand it.

That to me is not religion - its calisthenics on a rug.**

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Who is more pious, only Allah knows. We can only make assumptions/decisions based on what we know. A girl being a virgin before marriage doesn't guarantee overall piety. But a girl not being one, particularly due to pre-marital relationships does show that she wasn't at that particular point at least and has crossed a limit which the virgin hasn't. While there may be cases like the ones you described, it is still very possible to find a girl who hasn't crossed those boundaries and who will still make an ideal wife/companion. Nobody has to be stuck having to choose between the mean, backstabbing virgin or the kind, good hearted non-virgin.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

The OP might have already find the kind of girl he wants. :cb:

A virgin is superior to a non-virgin…in the area of virginity. It does demonstrate character and self control…but in just that area. It is commendable considering that zina is among the major sins. Whether or not the individual is overall a good Muslim or will make a good spouse cannot be determined solely by this. It gives some, but not complete insight into character.

There is nothing wrong with the OP wanting a virgin wife. Most likely he will also look at other qualities too such as character, temperament, practice of deen, etc.

If OP is able to find a girl who is a virgin, five-time namazi, responsible, patient, humble and well-mannered…then by our limited view we would be naturally inclined to find her superior to both the non-virgin who committed zina but adheres to religion in other ways…and even the virgin girl who is careless about other very essential aspects of Islam and character.

I say limited view because it’s Allah who knows best whose iman/character is sincere/superior.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

You're right. Only Allah knows...that's why I dislike it when people make assumptions about someone's piety based on their virgin or non-virgin status. Also, you assume that a girl being non-virgin has had "relationshipS". Why? You also assume that this woman would not make an ideal wife or companion. And that's what I have issues with. A lot of people reading my posts will come up with very obvious conclusions like "oh wow, looks like I hit a nerve there" and pretend to play psychologist. But I like arguing about this because I have seen how wrong I have been in assuming a pious 5 times namazi and virgin man would make a great husband. No, it doesn't work like that.

My issue is that I see people praying, keeping long beards, saying Alhumulillah, Mashallah, Subhanallah and Inshallah and janay kya kya. And those same people stare below your neck when you speak, lie, treat their wives like garbage, etc. Not all, but a considerable # do. But that beard...oh that beard...it makes you want to ask them to pray for you right?

I do not believe these idiotic requirements guarantee an ideal wife/husband or piety. I believe your religion is truly a WAY of life/a mentality/a thinking process...not only ONE aspect of your life.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

And besides, sometimes I think this virginity thing is over rated. Its possible no one was interested.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

:eek:

ignore her, OP and other pious brothers.

here is a poem for us from a blessed virgin.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

^ Madonna was all that was left to be brought into this discussion...

:D

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

No, I'm saying what the assumptions are for a woman who has had pre-martial relationships and is therefore not a virgin. I'm not saying that she'll make a suitable wife or not. What I am saying is that I know there's more than just virginity in determining if a woman will make a suitable wife or not. And I'm saying that it is possible to find one who is both.

[quote]
And that's what I have issues with. A lot of people reading my posts will come up with very obvious conclusions like "oh wow, looks like I hit a nerve there" and pretend to play psychologist. But I like arguing about this because I have seen how wrong I have been in assuming a pious 5 times namazi and virgin man would make a great husband. No, it doesn't work like that.

[/quote]

Of course. While those quality don't guarantee a great husband, many great husbands do also possess those qualities. So for someone whom these things are important, they don't need to settle for people who don't have these qualities. That's all I'm saying.

[quote]

My issue is that I see people praying, keeping long beards, saying Alhumulillah, Mashallah, Subhanallah and Inshallah and janay kya kya. And those same people stare below your neck when you speak, lie, treat their wives like garbage, etc. Not all, but a considerable # do. But that beard...oh that beard...it makes you want to ask them to pray for you right?

I do not believe these idiotic requirements guarantee an ideal wife/husband or piety. I believe your religion is truly a WAY of life/a mentality/a thinking process...not only ONE aspect of your life.
[/quote]

I can say the same thing about men who have a good education, lots of wealth and come from families that are known for their wealth and status. So having certain things that you look for doesn't mean that they'll have everything you want. But that doesn't mean that girls will stop including these types of things in their list of requirements for their potential husbands.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

So you have dismissed my argument as useless, nonsensical and unsubstantial without even bothering to offer a coherent response. How constructive. If you don't mind a little back and forth, with my assurance of no unnecessary hostility, I would find it most enjoyable to learn why I am wrong. But you can't just tell me that my argument is useless, without giving a well-reasoned, logical counter response.

A tit-for-tat as you put it, was enough to prove your logical fallacy. You can name a few examples, I can name a few counter examples, and so can everyone else. It's your word against mine, against everyone else's. At the end of the day it does not prove anything. I don't like religious people, I think they are hypocrites. But I have to admit that by practicing their religious beliefs alone, they are doing a lot of things right that I don't. Can't take that away from them. Why talk in absolutes. There is no single deed that will make you entirely pious, or entirely evil. There are no absolutes. And abstinence is no different. I never said that abstinence equates piety, I used the word demonstrates. It is a demonstration, an indication of morals, character and self-control.

No, it's not an assumption. You conveniently chose to ignore the "all-else-being-equal" part. It was a statement. All else being equal, a virgin is more pious than a non-virgin. All else being equal, a virgin is more capable of resisting temptations. All else being equal, a virgin is better at self-control. All else being equal, a virgin is more firm in his/her beliefs.

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Re: Can I find a girl who hasnt had a pre marital

Chalo ji. Southie is pleased that the post did not conclude with Allah knows best.