Burqa becomes focus of tense debate in Europe

[pak-one]

I am most certainly in the position to decide what is Islamic or not. Because I am Muslim and knowledgeable about Islam.

Wrong! You are neither theologically nor educationally qualified to make these statements. If you are prove it.

**
As for freedom of expression, what if a person comes into a bank wearing a ski mask. When the guard at the bank asks him to take that ski mask off, is his freedom of expression being violated or are they making the bank safe by having him remove that mask?
**

That makes no sense. A person does not go around wearing a ski mask as a lifetsyle choice. If there is a ski mask wearing religion or social group identify it and we'll talk.

**
There is no practical application for burka and thus I have no quams if the french have a law which forbids its use.

Dont like it, then leave France.
**

Arguments of idiots. Note I am not calling YOU an idiot but the reasoning behind it. This is how the genocides, atrocities and other fiascos of history have been perpetuated.

**
I have been to France 5 Times.

1990, 1993, 1996, 2000 and 2003.

French female police officers have other responsibilities dealing with domestic abuse, rape cases, sexual assault, etc, why burden them with this additional headache.
**

Whether your telling the truth is irrelevant, but it is clear you were ignorant of the French female police units until I mentioned it. I don't think that they would be "burdened" by this responsibility. Their role is to serve the French society - one that includes French Muslim woman that choose to wear a burka.

**
Burka is a security issue as well as a misogynistic symbol imposed by men over women.

If women want to wear a burka, then I suggest they stay indoors.

I mean what outdoor activities can women do with a burka?

If they step out, I like to see people's faces and know full well they are not a danger to society.**

You are either caucasian neo-fascist or self hating south asian. Either way, lets leave the choice to the person actually wearing the Burka.

[mercenary2k]

Wrong! You are neither theologically nor educationally qualified to make these statements. If you are prove it.

Wrong! You neither know me nor know my educational background to make that judgement.

That makes no sense. A person does not go around wearing a ski mask as a lifetsyle choice. If there is a ski mask wearing religion or social group identify it and we'll talk.

Since a burka is not a religious ornament...your point is irrelevant. And ski mask analogy holds

Arguments of idiots. Note I am not calling YOU an idiot but the reasoning behind it. This is how the genocides, atrocities and other fiascos of history have been perpetuated.

too stupid of a point to rebuttal

Whether your telling the truth is irrelevant, but it is clear you were ignorant of the French female police units until I mentioned it. I don't think that they would be "burdened" by this responsibility. Their role is to serve the French society - one that includes French Muslim woman that choose to wear a burka.

the only person that is ignorant is you offering such ridiculous opinions

Burka is a nuisance and has nothing to do with Islam

Just as child genital mutilation in africa has nothing to do with religion but cultural...same goes for Burka

You are either caucasian neo-fascist or self hating south asian. Either way, lets leave the choice to the person actually wearing the Burka.

just as genital mutilation, child marriages and other cultural things are wrong and so is burka....

you have failed miserably to convince me...try harder

[pak-one]

Wrong! You neither know me nor know my educational background to make that judgement.

Since a burka is not a religious ornament...your point is irrelevant. And ski mask analogy holds

too stupid of a point to rebuttal

the only person that is ignorant is you offering such ridiculous opinions

Burka is a nuisance and has nothing to do with Islam

Just as child genital mutilation in africa has nothing to do with religion but cultural...same goes for Burka

just as genital mutilation, child marriages and other cultural things are wrong and so is burka....

you have failed miserably to convince me...try harder

That's fine. Everything that is coming to you will be absolutely well deserved.

Bottom line is that Woman should have the freedom to choose their dress in a country that claims liberty, fraternity, and equality as its creed. Any deviation is hypocrisy.

[beHind]

That's fine. Everything that is coming to you will be absolutely well deserved.

Bottom line is that Woman should have the freedom to choose their dress in a country that claims liberty, fraternity, and equality as its creed. Any deviation is hypocrisy.

what age do you think is okay for a person to take decisions? 18? 16? would you be okay if a kid wasn't given a burqa and were to make her own decision on wearing it at that age?
I have seen ladies walking with kids and all wearing burka in oakland california..though it is a rare sight..

Also In my personal experience in purani delhi where in a wizardly bearded mullah will come with his 4 wives to cast vote for family. No one in the polling booth could dare to ask them to show faces. Not even the femaie polling officers. Are these identity escaping women above law?

[pak-one]

what age do you think is okay for a person to take decisions? 18? 16? would you be okay if a kid wasn't given a burqa and were to make her own decision on wearing it at that age? I have seen ladies walking with kids and all wearing burka in oakland california..though it is a rare sight..

Also In my personal experience in purani delhi where in a wizardly bearded mullah will come with his 4 wives to cast vote for family. No one in the polling booth could dare to ask them to show faces. Not even the femaie polling officers. Are these identity escaping women above law?

Ages of consent vary and as per Islamic guidelines the local laws should be followed. If a girl can legally get married at X age, then she can also decide to wear a burka as well. In the US 18 is the age of consent, if an 18 yr old girl decides to wear a burka then its her choice.

In the Oakland case, it's not required for the young daughters (depending on their ages) to wear a burka under Islamic guidelines, but then again these are rare examples as you have suggested.

As for the purani Dehli situation, the bearded Mullah and his wives should be following the local law (of India) where the female polling officers should/could demand to see the faces of women when necessary for voting purposes. the fact that they don't even ask, is showing perhaps a bit too much sensitivity.

I don't believe that Muslim women who cover themselves pose a threat to Europe, it is this intolerance which is fueling the fires. Islam in Europe can coexist if given the chance.

[mercenary2k]

That's fine. Everything that is coming to you will be absolutely well deserved.

Bottom line is that Woman should have the freedom to choose their dress in a country that claims liberty, fraternity, and equality as its creed. Any deviation is hypocrisy.

First, Burka is not a dress.

Second, having people covered head to toe without seeing their faces poses a security risk. As I explained before, if a man comes into a bank wearing a ski mask.

As for the French claims liberty, fraternity, and equality as its creed. It has its limits.

Female Genital mutilation is practiced in Africa but I doubt if that is allowed in France, or child marriages, or widow burnings like they do in India.

And thus, everything has its limits.

There is no such thing as total freedom of speech.

You will get charged if you yell Fire in a crowded theater. And thus the general princple remains with constraints.

[CM]

lol...try saying that in pakistan

Firstly we are talking about France you dumb ****. Secondly if you had ever lived in Pakistan you would know how easy it is to say that here.

Seriously ABCDs should just give up on trying to be Pakistani.

[GoodMD2B]

tough...its a security issue...who knows who is hiding underneath it....

I am absolutely flabbergasted by the fact that people so intelligent like yourself would not be able to psych out even the fraction of the enigma here.

Set aside significance of your comments pertaining to religious/Islamic aspects of Burqa ----- Since I am not an Imam I am not sure whether it is Islamic for a Muslim woman to wear Burqa or not and I could care less as long as a Muslim woman is felicitously dressed.

However things as benign as Burqa, Burka, Niqab, Hijab, cloak or dress ----- what ever you would like to call it ----- are not yet considered as vistas of the future pertaining to security threats ----- but nebulously viewed as cultural leanings of an individual toward political and or radical Islam hence a would-be security threat is likely to come from such group.

Therefore ----- this ban rather seems an insidious plan to deprive those Muslim Women who choose to wear Burqa/Burka of their civil rights.

Nuff said!

[Zapatista]

@pak-one

**
As for freedom of expression, what if a person comes into a bank wearing a ski mask. When the guard at the bank asks him to take that ski mask off, is his freedom of expression being violated or are they making the bank safe by having him remove that mask?
**

That makes no sense. A person does not go around wearing a ski mask as a lifetsyle choice. If there is a ski mask wearing religion or social group identify it and we’ll talk.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | West Midlands | Probe after second burka robbery

Do you get his point now?

[GoodMD2B]

Ages of consent vary and as per Islamic guidelines the local laws should be followed. If a girl can legally get married at X age, then she can also decide to wear a burka as well. In the US 18 is the age of consent, if an 18 yr old girl decides to wear a burka then its her choice.

In the Oakland case, it's not required for the young daughters (depending on their ages) to wear a burka under Islamic guidelines, but then again these are rare examples as you have suggested.

As for the purani Dehli situation, the bearded Mullah and his wives should be following the local law (of India) where the female polling officers should/could demand to see the faces of women when necessary for voting purposes. the fact that they don't even ask, is showing perhaps a bit too much sensitivity.

I don't believe that Muslim women who cover themselves pose a threat to Europe, it is this intolerance which is fueling the fires. Islam in Europe can coexist if given the chance.

Precisely keeping Oakland California case in mind as you have already mentioned that laws in the United States do provide parents pliability to raise their children according to their religious and moral beliefs ----- beside the fact that tattooing and piercing are not religious examples ----- the law does allow children under eighteen years of age to get tattooed and pierced only with consent and supervision of their parents.

As such it should not be considered immoral or unethical for girls under eighteen years of age to wear Burqa with the consent of their parents since the apple does not fall far from the tree.

Nuff said!

[GoodMD2B]

@라시드

BBC NEWS | UK | England | West Midlands | Probe after second burka robbery

Do you get his point now?

Oh really and you actually believe that this was done by a Muslim person ----- LOL ----- you got to be kidding me!

http://paktribune.com/v2/texteditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/fun/lol3.gif

Nuff said!

[Punjabee_in_USA]

@mercenary2k

If they step out, I like to see people’s faces and know full well they are not a danger to society.

:k:

[Punjabee_in_USA]

@GoodMD2B

Oh really and you actually believe that this was done by a Muslim person ----- LOL ----- you got to be kidding me!

http://paktribune.com/v2/texteditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/fun/lol3.gif

Nuff said!

Thats exactly the point. You dont know who is behind the burqa, hence its essential to see the person’s face.

[Zapatista]

@Punjabee_in_USA

Thats exactly the point. You dont know who is behind the burqa, hence its essential to see the person’s face.

Exactly.

@GoodMD2B

Oh really and you actually believe that this was done by a Muslim person ----- LOL ----- you got to be kidding me!

http://paktribune.com/v2/texteditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/fun/lol3.gif

Nuff said!

No, you’re kidding yourself here. Not getting the point, are we?

[GoodMD2B]

They are called schedule casts in Pakistan .... hope you have heard this term !!!

NOP ----- I haven't!

Nuff said!

[GoodMD2B]

Exactly.

No, you're kidding yourself here. Not getting the point, are we?

Oops am I bad ----- my apology wrong post!

Nuff said!

[aam_bandha]

@GoodMD2B

NOP ----- I haven’t!

Nuff said!

Well then a lesson on your own country is required… here is some interesting information from “Statistics Division” of Government of Pakistan … tells you the number of schedule castes in Pakistan and as i said they are counted seperately from Hindus.

http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/other_tables/pop_by_religion.pdf

Now for some news how these “lower caste” hindus are treated in Islamic republic of Pakistan … from Pak media :k:

Low-caste Hindus face strict discrimination | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

[mercenary2k]

I am absolutely flabbergasted by the fact that people so intelligent like yourself would not be able to psych out even the fraction of the enigma here.

Set aside significance of your comments pertaining to religious/Islamic aspects of Burqa ----- Since I am not an Imam I am not sure whether it is Islamic for a Muslim woman to wear Burqa or not and I could care less as long as a Muslim woman is felicitously dressed.

However things as benign as Burqa, Burka, Niqab, Hijab, cloak or dress ----- what ever you would like to call it ----- are not yet considered as vistas of the future pertaining to security threats ----- but nebulously viewed as cultural leanings of an individual toward political and or radical Islam hence a would-be security threat is likely to come from such group.

Therefore ----- this ban rather seems an insidious plan to deprive those Muslim Women who choose to wear Burqa/Burka of their civil rights.

Nuff said!

I don't support the French ban on the hijab but I do support their ban on the Burka.

Hijab is an essential element for muslim women.

The Burka is a traditional garb wore by women from Arabia since before Islam arrived.

Just as tinted windows are banned on Cars because Police Officers do not know what the driver could be doing, or people with Ski Masks are not allowed to enter Banks due to security reasons.

Exactly the same applies to Burkas. It conceals the person's face, poses a safety hazard to other people, and has nothing to do with Islam but a backward tradition emanating from Arabia.

[GoodMD2B]

@mercenary2k

I don't support the French ban on the hijab but I do support their ban on the Burka.

Hijab is an essential element for muslim women.

The Burka is a traditional garb wore by women from Arabia since before Islam arrived.

Just as tinted windows are banned on Cars because Police Officers do not know what the driver could be doing, or people with Ski Masks are not allowed to enter Banks due to security reasons.

Exactly the same applies to Burkas. It conceals the person's face, poses a safety hazard to other people, and has nothing to do with Islam but a backward tradition emanating from Arabia.

Oh boy ----- you seem to be stuck with the "security" issue here ----- take the security issue out of the equation for a moment and think out side of the box about the wider pragmatic connotations of the law.

France a “laïcité”, or a pseudo secular state albeit a predominantly Catholic society ----- would have to eventually administer same ban into some of its public schools ----- of course if not yet in effect----- which are still run by Nuns ------ does this law mean these Nuns would have to remove their stoles, crosses and wimples?. Does it mean that ----- If priests were to visit a school, they would have to remove their robes?. Would Protestant ministers have to remove their clerical collars?. Would Orthodox Jewish men have to remove their Yarmulkes?. ----- May be on the paper but not in reality!.

Nuff said!

[mercenary2k]

@GoodMD2B

Oh boy ----- you seem to be stuck with the "security" issue here ----- take the security issue out of the equation for a moment and think out side of the box about the wider pragmatic connotations of the law.

France a “laïcité”, or a pseudo secular state albeit a predominantly Catholic society ----- would have to eventually administer same ban into some of its public schools ----- of course if not yet in effect----- which are still run by Nuns ------ does this law mean these Nuns would have to remove their stoles, crosses and wimples?. Does it mean that ----- If priests were to visit a school, they would have to remove their robes?. Would Protestant ministers have to remove their clerical collars?. Would Orthodox Jewish men have to remove their Yarmulkes?. ----- May be on the paper but not in reality!.

Nuff said!

none of the above examples do any of the people cover their faces