Britney wants to embrace Islam

[psyah]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

I figured she'd do this. Is this news confirmed though? I'm going to check in some other newspapers. Maybe its fiction.

psyah: Leave the judging up to God, ok? You're not in a position to decide who gets executed and who doesn't. I don't think you necessarily know what's in this girl's heart, and what she's going through. There is some immunity in Islam for those with mental health issues, and so how the heck do you know what God really thinks of her? Sheesh, just pay attention to your own neck, will ya, before passing judgement statements on others.

Peace PyariCgudia

As I said no one should take Shahadah from her until they are sure she knows what she is doing. Islam is a Faith and not a mockery, that is the reason why there are harsh punishments for apostacy. People giving willy nilly Shahadas from folk can be responsible for this also.

Again I say the same thing ... The above you quoted about my post is odd. You say judging people bla bla bla ... you judge me and Britney together in one go yet I have judged no one. I am merely pointing to a real phenomenon that has happened in the past. People have converted to Islam on limited knowledge and then due to other reasons they convert back it is this converting back that provides the enemies of Islam canonfodder to abuse Islam and it's authenticity. Now let it not be said that I am accusing anyone of converting to Islam on limited knowledge, I am merely saying that this should be kept aware of.

I don't mind being a target for you PyariCgudia you can lay into me all you like, but I won't get angry inshaAllah. I'm not sure what she will think of you saying that she has mental health issues. I particularly enjoy the interpolated comments you have made and where you are ordering me Leave the judging to God, as if I have judged someone, which the text above proves that I have not. I merely pointing to the idea of being careful and considerate for both Islam and the wanting convert. The 'Alim needs to ask "Are you converting because of him?" and questions like "To be a Muslim one needs to believe that they aught to pray 5 times a day do you believe this?" and also questions like "Do you know that is a crime to leave Islam once inside it?" These are the questions that some people ask but not all people do. If the whole thing is true and she answers in favour of Islam each time then of course she should decalre her Shahadah in public, but if she cannot then she can remain a Muslim without making it a public issue because Allah (SWT) is the knower of the hearts.

Come on sister how can you think I am being an immature Muslim? Haven't we had enough conversations in the past for you think differently by now?

[psyah]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

@phuljhari

Who knows BS gets converted just to get married to Adnan bhai then she takes interest in Islam and conducts her own research and starts wearing hijab. Then Adnab bhi who is so engrossed in her worldly charms gets engrossed in her spiritual charms and they two make a new Islamic history. A wishfull thinking, but is it not possible?

Anybody is willing to take bets that this might or might not happen.

Think about it if Adnan bhai or BS were such a bad people they would not think of any conversion and just get married, right. After all Muslim men can marry ahle kitab women without conveting them to Islam. This gesture on the part of these two tells me that they are good people at heart and they have some kind of hidden love for Islam. Otherwise Adnan bhai would marry her and she would marry him without conversion and it would not be such a big news.

Looks like it is Allah's plan we know nothing about, only Allah knows. What do you say ?

Peace phuljari

The fact is we don't know what is in anyones heart, but we do know what we have to protect. Even in the early times of Islam people were required to re-proclaim Shahadah and give allegience and some people were prevented from going in to battle.

We also know from the Qur'an and Sunnah that people who choose 'evil' as a path are led astray in that path by Allah (SWT) and those who choose good are Guided by Him too.

It is also possible that the Wisdom behind the alleged future conversion of Britney may have an effect on her fans.

Traditionally Islam has appealed to the best of the non-Muslims who go on to become the best of the Muslims. Usually and I am not guessing or pointing the finger at this specific case that people who live wild lives coming to Islam do so out of it's umbrella comfort zone rather than it's worship related values. A nun who converts may do so for another reason than an ex-prostitute, these are just examples.

If we are talking mere fluke chances here you are right ... if we are talking law of averages however then you need to consider the prudence necessary for such a situation. The prudence necessary is to show the potential revertee what they are committing to .... i.e. a life time of slander and degrading talk towards religious Muslims.

[ashtray]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

@PyariCgudia

Exactly the opposite. You absolutely don't have the right to decide who can enter a faith and who can't. I do agree its hard to digest that she'd be truly interested in Islam, but I'm not prepared to make those judgment calls on a:

1. Female (You folks need to learn to respect women, even if they have a bad history - this woman has given birth and has kids and read further).

2. Possibly mentally ill patient. There is immunity to these people, may I strongly remind some of you.

3. Human Being who has the potential to change and make her life a better and happier one.

I don't see these things as being unreasonable.

Why should I listen to you? you are just a woman and I am a modern day Musalman so "I" decide who is or isnt a muslim and who is or isnt allowed to convert.

[chintu_bhopali]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

I dont know what muslims will get if she embrace islam.

Why the hell ppl should care what religion other person is converting to?

[Tariq_Akhtar]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Psyah

I read your posts with great interest normally and did so above too.

May be it is a language thing but what you wrotE does sound not just judgemental but well beyond that, to the point of passing sentence. You wrote "nobody should take shahada from her until bla bla". That is a clear implication that you have judged her untrustworthy and passed a sentence that she needs to further prove before you will admit her.

Similarly elsewhere you say normally the b st of non-muslims usually convert and become best of muslims. If that is the epidemy of generalized judgemental attitude, I don't know what else is.

You like everyone else is entitled to your views ofcourse but as I have mentioned in the past, your great knowledge and piety actually assigns responsibiilities to you (IMO) and therefore saying one thing and doing another is a deeper disappointment coming from you than others. (Sorry for a personal note there).

Now, why exactly can't we let BS do what she want w.o doubting? If you consider sin a disease and islam a cure, isn't it. In order that the sick seek the remedy and not the healthy?

Finally, the irony is striking. There's a thread current where people are pushing for a husband to convert just so the marriage to a converted wife can be valid (or the wedlock is gone they claims). And here yiou are taking a different stand.

When did hypocracy become a pillar for the self appointed trustees of islam?

[USResident]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

@PyariCgudia

He's living in his own world. He thinks Pakistani men raised in Pakistan can't POSSIBLY be man whores. Yet, if the Pakistani grows up abroad, he is more likely to be a man whore.

Bottom line. In his mind, East is best, West sucks. And that's the kind of immature thinking that is the premise for all their opinions of people.

See PCG just one post before this one we talked sensible and here you go again. Is it impossible for you to keep your conversation in the defined context of one person.

Bottomline is you do not understand any of the intricacies of the eastern culture (meaning what lifestyle people over there are subjected to) because you did not grow up in it neither have you lived long enough to be aquainted with it. As for me, I grew up in eastern culture but I have been in western culture long enough to be able to relate to it if not completely. And again this is not an insult but a reality which you should come to terms with and stop accusing people of they think East is better than west type of arguments.

[USResident]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Can we all do ourselves are favor and Write Brit S of something other than BS when refering to her. Sorry I just don't like the sound of it.

[USResident]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Psyah

I read your posts with great interest normally and did so above too.

May be it is a language thing but what you wrotE does sound not just judgemental but well beyond that, to the point of passing sentence. You wrote "nobody should take shahada from her until bla bla". That is a clear implication that you have judged her untrustworthy and passed a sentence that she needs to further prove before you will admit her.

Similarly elsewhere you say normally the b st of non-muslims usually convert and become best of muslims. If that is the epidemy of generalized judgemental attitude, I don't know what else is.

You like everyone else is entitled to your views ofcourse but as I have mentioned in the past, your great knowledge and piety actually assigns responsibiilities to you (IMO) and therefore saying one thing and doing another is a deeper disappointment coming from you than others. (Sorry for a personal note there).

Now, why exactly can't we let BS do what she want w.o doubting? If you consider sin a disease and islam a cure, isn't it. In order that the sick seek the remedy and not the healthy?

Finally, the irony is striking. There's a thread current where people are pushing for a husband to convert just so the marriage to a converted wife can be valid (or the wedlock is gone they claims). And here yiou are taking a different stand.

When did hypocracy become a pillar for the self appointed trustees of islam?

TA I know we have been not very cordial with one another but lets try to put it behind.

TA, I don't think he IMO he is being judgemental but rather cautious and this maybe for her own good. I think the premise everyone see's now is that her attachment to Islam is really stemming from her BF but not genuinely from a search for divine truth. She hasn't stated her reasons for converting to Islam would be any other than her BF and the Shahada that one proclaims when declaring himself to be a muslim is to testify that there is no god but Allah SWT and that Muhammad SAW is his messenger. It has nothing to do with relationships with other people but its about relationship a person is proclaiming to establish with Allah SWT.

[phuljhari]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

@psyah

Peace phuljari

The fact is we don’t know what is in anyones heart, but we do know what we have to protect. Even in the early times of Islam people were required to re-proclaim Shahadah and give allegience and some people were prevented from going in to battle.

We also know from the Qur’an and Sunnah that people who choose ‘evil’ as a path are led astray in that path by Allah (SWT) and those who choose good are Guided by Him too.

It is also possible that the Wisdom behind the alleged future conversion of Britney may have an effect on her fans.

Traditionally Islam has appealed to the best of the non-Muslims who go on to become the best of the Muslims. Usually and I am not guessing or pointing the finger at this specific case that people who live wild lives coming to Islam do so out of it’s umbrella comfort zone rather than it’s worship related values. A nun who converts may do so for another reason than an ex-prostitute, these are just examples.

If we are talking mere fluke chances here you are right … if we are talking law of averages however then you need to consider the prudence necessary for such a situation. The prudence necessary is to show the potential revertee what they are committing to … i.e. a life time of slander and degrading talk towards religious Muslims.

Peace to you too May Allah shower you with his mercy and blessings , Ameen.

I am sorry I cannot find any gentle word or any politically correct terms to say this but you are using twisted logic as most of our Mullahs use to promote their brand of Islam.
Why I am saying that because :
As far as my study of Islam and its history goes , nobody was prevented from entering Islam and taking shahada. Allegiances were taken at only the time of wars . Yes some people were prevented from going to battle but they were not prevented from taking shahada and enter the fold of Islam. So many of those who were prevented from going to battle later joined other battles and became shaheed or ghazi.

If Allah wanted he would send a list of would be Muslim that would make the work of our holy prophet easy and he would work on those would be Muslims only but he did not ,why ? So that we the future Muslims too , not be selective and be open about accepting anybody and everybody into this religion.

Unforntunately lie detectors were not invented at that time but now they have been invented so according to your logic we should hook a lie detector to a would be Muslim ?
Only Allah knows what are the intentions of Brit. S , do you know for sure that it is not Allah who is guiding this beautifull role model of millions to a beautifull religion.
His divine wisdom is beyond everybody’s comprehension.

As far as conversion goes anybody has the right to convert to this beautiful religion I , you or anybody else is not a gate keeper of the gateway to Islam .We see the obvious and decide which is often wrong. Allah has charted the whole destiny of every one that is why he has the right to judge every one. That is why Allah did not grant me or you the role of a gate keeper of Islam, or the right to be judemental about would be converters and their motives.

Please forgive me if my words hurt you.

[psyah]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Peace again to some people who have already posted here.

Firstly, JazakAllah khair to USResident for defending my stance.

My reply is mainly to Tariq Akhtar and somewhat to phuljari

It is all well and good that you are here defending a stance but I assure you I am not talking without knowledge on this topic. I have back-up.

1) To be a Muslim one does not need to declare it openly, but once done then there are certain issues at hand, such as it is a declaration of faith it is a promise. And those people who do not remind the wanting Muslim that they have the burden to represent Islam once they openly declare it, then they are responsible.

2) Taking the Shahadah is not merely saying one believes in One God and Muhammad (SAW) is a prophet.

3) To say what is and what is not is not classed as sentencing people. it is presenting the requirements as they are.

4) I said nothing about Britney S ... I only said that there is a responsibility that lies on the people who hear the Shahadah too ... that responsibility is to present Islam as it is. If a person enters a contract should they not be told exactly what it implies?

5) I have by no means exercised any sentence on anyone, rather I am being blamed for this. As Muslims we should be protecting of Islam and considerate to those who want to enter it not by being deceptive and not telling them what it requires, rather to allow them the space to contemplate the fuller implications of it.

6) There was a girl in the US recently who became a Muslim and then she left Islam her name was in the papers because Muslims were threatening her for leaving. When asked she said that she never expected to have so much enmity from her friends and that she didn't really know about Islam and converted because of her Muslim I think boyfriend. The fault was on the Muslims for not telling her all about Islam before she decided to openly declare it.

7) No one can stop another from being a Muslim, being a Muslim is not equivalent to taking Shahadah before a crowd. Taking the Shahadah is the next stage up when all of the tenets of Islam have been agreed and understood.

Lie detectors here I'm afraid this is a red-herring.

8) The correct manner to attract people in to Islam is to be Islamic.

9) Preventing a possible harm outweighs the promoting of a possible good, especially if the possible harm is a greater chance to occur. Read the hadith on harm and stopping harm. The harm in this case can come to the image of Islam.

10) To set the record straight leaving Islam is not punishable, unless it is done out of malice intent or treason. By setting the record straight and warning of the penalty of kufr after once accepting Islam ... i.e. Wrath of God then this should minimise the risk.

My posts have so far concentrated on the Muslims not on the potential revertee. So guys you may think I am judging people and there is nothing I can say except that Allah (SWT) is my witness.

[psyah]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Peace Tariq Akhtar

By the way the quote "The best of non-Muslims become the best of the Muslims"

This is not something I have coined ... I borrowed it from Sh. Muhammad Al-Shareef who himself borrowed it from I think it was one of the Sahabis ... may be Ibn Abbas (my best guess) ...

You need to distinguish between general comments being applicable to trends and specific comments being applicable to named people. Only then can you claim someone has been sentenced. And if the sentence you say I have given ... what is it that I am sentencing Britney to? To be a liar or mistaken or ill-informed or lack of knowledge. And if it is any of these ... how can this type of judging be compared to say so and so is or is not going to heaven. These are details that need to be addressed before you continue accusing me of being a hypocrit and May Allah (SWT) protect me from such an ugly definition ... Ameen.

[nGenius]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

This is all Media BS. She needs to go mental Hospital.

[USResident]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Peace again to some people who have already posted here.

Firstly, JazakAllah khair to USResident for defending my stance.

5) I have by no means exercised any sentence on anyone, rather I am being blamed for this. As Muslims we should be protecting of Islam and considerate to those who want to enter it not by being deceptive and not telling them what it requires, rather to allow them the space to contemplate the fuller implications of it.

9) Preventing a possible harm outweighs the promoting of a possible good, especially if the possible harm is a greater chance to occur. Read the hadith on harm and stopping harm. The harm in this case can come to the image of Islam.

No problem Akhi.

5 - We can thank PCG for outright blaming everyone about being judgemental and hurling accusations. I am regreting I went far enough to get into an argument with her. I am coming to realize though she may have some knowledge (just knowledge I would quote) her maturity is very myopic when it comes to comprehending other peoples POV or understanding the causes which make people have differing POVs. She doesn't seem to understand the context around someones POV or behavior is different from hers.

6 - Good point. As I mentioned also. Her retreat from Islam after conversion would be very damaging to both sides just because she was not ready to accept what she was getting herself into. The guy should infact not force her to become muslim IMO and let her ponder and explore on her own. We all know how long celebrity marriages last. Everything about her is foreign to Islam.

[Seminole]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Everything about her is foreign to Islam.

How can someone be foreign to a religion? It doesn't say much about that religion. Perhaps it is better stated "Everything about Islam is foreign to her".

[Mirch]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

If she wants to embrace Islam that is very good. Jee ayea noon.

If she want to embarass Muslims then what can we, you , me do about it ?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

If she wants to embrace Islam that is very good. Jee ayea noon.

If she want to embarass Muslims then what can we, you , me do about it ?

Our own people are already embarassing us by calling for her head to be cut off. She doesn't even need to do anything, we're already being ridiculed for being barbaric.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Peace Tariq Akhtar

By the way the quote "The best of non-Muslims become the best of the Muslims"

This is not something I have coined ... I borrowed it from Sh. Muhammad Al-Shareef who himself borrowed it from I think it was one of the Sahabis ... may be Ibn Abbas (my best guess) ...

You need to distinguish between general comments being applicable to trends and specific comments being applicable to named people. Only then can you claim someone has been sentenced. And if the sentence you say I have given ... what is it that I am sentencing Britney to? To be a liar or mistaken or ill-informed or lack of knowledge. And if it is any of these ... how can this type of judging be compared to say so and so is or is not going to heaven. These are details that need to be addressed before you continue accusing me of being a hypocrit and May Allah (SWT) protect me from such an ugly definition ... Ameen.

Twist your words however you want to get out of this situation. What you've written is what you have written, and its clear that you think that in the event she were to convert, you feel action should be taken against her.

If you don't feel this way, then you need to watch how you are communicating in English.

[phuljhari]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

Our own people are already embarassing us by calling for her head to be cut off. She doesn't even need to do anything, we're already being ridiculed for being barbaric.

Whole heartedly agree with you. Now what to do to calm down these blood thirsty so called Muslim fundamentalists ?

[USResident]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

How can someone be foreign to a religion? It doesn't say much about that religion. Perhaps it is better stated "Everything about Islam is foreign to her".

Semi, are you really going to fight the semantics now. What I mean is everything she is known for her or attributed to is foreign to Islam or in other words things that are not associated with one who should be following Islam. Its a just a figurative sentence not literal.

[Rocking_vibes]

Re: Britney wants to embrace Islam

It will be nice to see her convert.........Atleast the mullas in Pakistan and some in GS will have some work to do....issuing fatwas against her ?