Blasphemous film ready to release

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
161

Re: Blasphemous film ready to release

If you truly study all the values in the Quran you cannot possibly come out with the understanding that it preaches violence unless you (as probably Geert has done) look at verses in the Quran disconnected from the other verses and overall context of the Quran. Islam is about unifying humanity under one true God, how can that be achieved by violently segregating others. If you fail to understand the creed of Islam naturally you go down these paths that lead away from its central message and theme.

162

Re: Blasphemous film ready to release

I have been accused of same from some of my muslim friends.

How /when does someone actually know something about Islam. Easy.

Don't think, don't ask, don't ponder, don't wonder and submit. BE OBEDIENT AND GET RID OF YOUR CELEBELUM.

163

Re: Blasphemous film ready to release

well I hope you are right and Geert and osama are wrong about it.

164

Re: Blasphemous film ready to release

RELAX. TORAH, BIBLE, QURAN, in all three books if you read the right passages you can easily find scripture which promotes evil deeds , violence etc etc. ROMAN CATHOLICS USED IT IN MEDIEVAL HISTORY , LOTS OF EXAMPLES, but as time evolved and people became more educated then the peasant mentality of prior years they realized BIBLE can not be used solely for nefarious intent in domination and suppression. What the catholic church underwent is a slow , methodical revision by the ever increasing educated population. Same will oclcur in Islam. After all history repeats itself. And Islam is on this path.

All three books have been used to instigate and foster violence.

JUST TO GIVE YOU BIBLE EXAMPLES:

Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil:

  1. In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.
  2. In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.
  3. In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.
  4. In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.
  5. In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
  6. In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
  7. In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
    Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery.
    Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history.

JUST TO GIVE YOU QURAN EXAMPLES

Cruelty and violence in the Quran (A Short List)

  1. As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.–2:6-7
  2. In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.–[2:17-18](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/2/index.htm#10’ >2:10Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them indarkness, where they cannot see, Deaf, dumb and blind.–<a href=)
  3. Guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.–2:24
  4. They who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein.–2:39
  5. Ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!–2:65
  6. Allah hath cursed them for their unbelief. Little is that which they believe.–2:88
  7. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.–2:89
  8. Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.–2:98
  9. We have revealed unto thee clear tokens, and only miscreants will disbelieve in them.–2:99
  10. For disbelievers is a painful doom.–2:104
  11. As for him who disbelieveth, I shall leave him in contentment for a while, then I shall compel him to the doom of Fire - a hapless journey’s end!–2:126
  12. Those who hide the proofs and the guidance which We revealed, after We had made it clear to mankind in the Scripture: such are accursed of Allah and accursed of those who have the power to curse.–2:159
  13. Those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers; on them is the curse of Allah and of angels and of men combined.–2:161
  14. Those who hide aught of the Scripture which Allah hath revealed and purchase a small gain therewith, they eat into their bellies nothing else than fire. Theirs will be a painful doom.–2:174
  15. Slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out … If they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.–2:191
  16. Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah–2:193
  17. One who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you.–2:194
  18. Whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief … such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein.–2:217
  19. Those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. … Such are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.–2:257
  20. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom.–3:4
  21. Those who disbelieve … will be fuel for Fire.–3:10
  22. Those who disbelieve … shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell–3:12
  23. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah … promise them a painful doom.–3:21
  24. Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers–3:28
  25. Allah loveth not the disbelievers–3:32
  26. As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.–3:56
  27. Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge?–3:66
  28. Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.–3:85
  29. Those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief… Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.–3:91
  30. On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief ? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved.–3:106
  31. Those who disbelieve … are rightful owners of the Fire. They will abide therein.–3:116
  32. Give us victory over the disbelieving folk.–3:147
  33. We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve–3:151
  34. Those who purchase disbelief at the price of faith harm Allah not at all, but theirs will be a painful doom.–3:177
  35. Those who disbelieve … theirs will be a shameful doom.–3:178
  36. Those who disbelieve … their habitation will be hell–3:196-7
  37. Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.–[4:18](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/4/index.htm#56’ >4:56For those who die while they aredisbelievers. For such We have prepared a painful doom.–<a href=)
  38. Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.–4:46
  39. Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil.–4:76
  40. Whatever of good befalleth thee (O man) it is from Allah, and whatever of ill befalleth thee it is from thyself.–4:79
  41. Choose not friends from them [unbelievers]. … Take them and kill them wherever ye find them.–4:89
  42. Take them [unbelivers] and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.–4:91
  43. The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.–4:101
  44. Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?–4:144
  45. Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.–[4:18](http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/4/index.htm#56’ >4:56For those who die while they aredisbelievers. For such We have prepared a painful doom.–<a href=)
  46. Marry of the women two, or three, or four.–4:3
  47. Women who are guilty of lewdness … confine them to the houses until death take them.–4:15
  48. If ye wish to exchange one wife for another…–4:20
  49. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. … So good women are the obedient. … As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.–4:34
  50. Will they not then ponder on the Qur’an ? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much incongruity.–4:82
  51. Be ye staunch in justice … even though it be against yourselves or (your) parents or (your) kindred, whether (the case be of) a rich man or a poor man.–4:135
  52. Unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females.–4:176
  53. They who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell.–5:11
  54. The Children of Israel … We have cursed them and made hard their hearts–5:12-13
  55. Christians … We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection.–5:14
  56. Whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind.–5:32
  57. The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.–5:33
  58. Those who disbelieve … Theirs will be a painful doom.–5:36
  59. They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom.–5:37
  60. As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. … An exemplary punishment from Allah.–5:38
  61. The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation.–5:45
  62. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.–5:45
  63. Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. … He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them.–5:51
  64. The Jews … We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection.–5:64
  65. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk.–5:67
  66. But those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell- fire.–5:86
  67. Many a generation We destroyed … and created after them another generation.–6:6
  68. We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness.—6:25
  69. Those who deny Our revelations are deaf and dumb in darkness. Whom Allah will sendeth astray.–6:39
  70. But as for those who deny Our revelations, torment will afflict them–6:49
  71. For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved.–6:70
  72. How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.–7:4
  73. Those are they who lose their souls because they disbelieved Our revelations.–7:9
  74. We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.–7:27
  75. They who deny Our revelations and scorn them - each are rightful owners of the Fire; they will abide therein.–7:36 AND THERE IS MORE.
    MORE JUDEO -CHRISTAIN VIOLENCE

Genesis1. God likes Abel’s dead animals better than Cain’s fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved. 4:3-5

  1. Because God liked Abel’s animal sacrifice more than Cain’s vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

  2. God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and “all flesh wherein there is breath of life.” He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

  3. God repeats his intention to kill “every living substance … from off the face of the earth.” But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

  4. God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears – all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

  5. Noah kills the “clean beasts” and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all “clean” animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. “And the Lord smelled a sweet savor.” 8:20

  6. To free Lot from captivity, Abram sends an army of slaves to pursue and smite his captors. 14:14-15

  7. God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

  8. Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. “And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled.” 16:6

  9. Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two “virgin daughters” instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to “do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes.” This is the same man that is called “just” and “righteous” in 2 Pet.2:7-8. 19:7-8

  10. God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining “fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven.” Well, almost everyone – he spares the “just and righteous” Lot and his family. 19:24

  11. God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe’s lie. 20:3-7

  12. God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac’s throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

  13. Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is “defiled” by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31

  14. “The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them.” I don’t know what the “terror of God” is, but I’ll bet it isn’t pleasant. 35:5

  15. “And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him.” What did Er do to elicit God’s wrath? The Bible doesn’t say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7

  16. After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to “go in unto they brother’s wife.” But “Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and … when he went in unto his brother’s wife … he spilled it on the ground… And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also.” This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10

  17. After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she “played the harlot” and “is with child by whoredom.” When Judah hears this, he says, “Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.” 38:24

  18. Joseph interprets the baker’s dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker’s head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19
    ** Exodus**

  19. Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12

  20. God threatens to kill the Pharaoh’s firstborn son. 4:23

  21. God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

  22. God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4

  23. “And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD.” Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17

  24. God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24

  25. The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6

  26. The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12

  27. “For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.” Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14

  28. God kills all Egyptian cattle with hail. 9:19-20

  29. The seventh plague is hail. “And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast.” 9:22-25

  30. These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. 11:4-6 (see 12:29-30)

  31. God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts “a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.” 11:7

  32. God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12

  33. After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished “there was not a house where there was not one dead.” Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29

  34. To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to “sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix” – all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15

  35. After hardening Pharaoh’s heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh’s army in the sea 14:4-28

  36. Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19

  37. “The Lord is a man of war.” Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3

  38. God’s right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6

  39. Joshua, with God’s approval, kills the Amalekites “with the edge of the sword.” 17:13

  40. “The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” 17:14-16

  41. Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or “shot through.” 19:12-13

  42. God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such “burnt offerings,” he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24

  43. A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15,17

  44. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25

  45. If an ox gores someone, then both the ox and its owner must die. 21:28-29

  46. “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18

  47. “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.” Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn’t we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19

  48. “He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.” If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20

  49. If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24

  50. “The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me.” (As a burnt offering?) 22:29

  51. God promises to “send his fear before the Israelites” and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27

  52. Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8

  53. Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around – in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37

  54. Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39

  55. Wash up or die. 30:20-21

  56. Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be “cut off from his people.” 30:33

  57. Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14

  58. God asks to be left alone so that his “wrath may wax hot” and he can "consume them. 32:10

  59. God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were “on the Lord’s side”) to kill “every man his neighbor.” “And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men.” 32:27-28

  60. But God wasn’t satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. 32:35

  61. If you can’t redeem him, then just “break his neck.” Hey, it’s all for the glory of God. 34:20

  62. Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath “shall be put to death.” 35:2-3
    ** Leviticus**

  63. God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a “sweet savor unto the Lord.” Chapters 1 - 9

  64. Wringing off the heads of pigeons for God. 5:8-9

  65. The holy law of trespass offering: Find an animal; kill it; sprinkle the blood around; offer God the fat, rump, kidneys, and caul; burn and eat it in the holy place, for “it is most holy.” 7:1-6

  66. The priest must sprinkle the blood of the peace offerings. 7:14

  67. Be careful what you eat during these animal sacrifices. Don’t eat fat or blood – these are for God. (And he doesn’t like to share!) 7:18-27

  68. God gives instructions for “wave offerings” and “heave offerings.” He says these offerings are to be made perpetually “by a statute for ever.” Have you made your heave offering today? 7:30-36

  69. Moses does it all for God. First he kills an animal; wipes the blood on Aaron’s ears, thumbs, and big toes. Then he sprinkles blood round about and waves the guts before the Lord. Finally he burns the whole mess for “a sweet savour before the Lord.” 8:14-32

  70. More killing, sprinkling of blood, waiving animal parts, and burning carcasses “before the Lord.” 9:8-21

  71. Two of the sons of Aaron “offered strange fire before the Lord” and “there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.” 10:1-2

  72. If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by uncovering their heads, tearing their clothes, leaving with holy oil on them, or by drinking “wine or strong drink”, then God will kill them and send his wrath on “all the people.” 10:6-9

  73. God’s treatment for leprosy: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 14:2-32

  74. God explains the use of scapegoats. It goes like this: Get two goats. Kill one. Wipe, smear, and sprinkle the blood around seven times. Then take the other goat, give it the sins of all the people, and send it off into the wilderness. 16:6-28

  75. If you upset God, he’ll cause the land to vomit you out. 18:25

  76. “Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations … shall be cut off from among their people.” I’m not sure what being “cut off” means exactly, but I bet it isn’t any fun. 18:29, 19:8

  77. Kill anyone who “gives his seed” to Molech. If you refuse, God will cut you and your family off. 20:2-5

  78. “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.” Couldn’t we try spanking first? 20:9

  79. Both parties in adultery shall be executed. 20:10

  80. “And the man that lieth with his father’s wife … both of them shall be put to death.” Which? The man and his father? The father and his wife? Or the man and his father’s wife? Oh heck, just kill all three. 20:11

  81. If a man “lies” with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed. 20:12

  82. Homosexuals must be executed. 20:13

  83. If you “lie” with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of you must be burned to death. 20:14

  84. If a man or woman “lie with a beast” both the person and the poor animal are to be killed. 20:15-16

  85. People with “familiar spirits” (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27

  86. A priest’s daughter who “plays the whore” is to be burned to death. 21:9

  87. God gives us more instructions on killing and burning animals. I guess the first nine chapters of Leviticus wasn’t enough. He says we must do this because he really likes the smell – it is “a sweet savour unto the Lord.” 23:12-14, 18

  88. Don’t do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you. 23:29-30

  89. A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. “And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded.” 24:10-23

  90. Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community. 24:16

  91. God tells the Israelites to “chase” their enemies and make them “fall before you by the sword.” He figures five of the Israelites will be able to “chase” a hundred of their enemies, and a hundred will be able to “put ten thousand to flight.” 26:7-8

  92. God describes torments that he has planned for those who displease him. The usual stuff: plagues, burning fevers that will consume the eyes, etc. but he reserves the worst for the little children. He says “ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it”, “I will send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children”, and “ye shall eat the flesh of your sons .. daughters.” 26:16-39

  93. All “devoted” things (both man and beast) “shall surely be put to death.” 27:28-29
    ** Numbers**

  94. God displays his hospitality with the admonition: “The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.” 1:51

  95. Two of Aaron’s sons are killed by God for “offering strange fire before the Lord.” 3:4

  96. God repeats his order (see 1:51) to kill any strangers who happen to come near. 3:10

  97. Once again (see 1:51 and 3:10) God tells his favorite people to kill any strangers that come near. 3:38

  98. Don’t touch or “go in to see when the holy things are covered.” God kills people who touch or look at uncovered holy things. 4:15, 4:20

  99. “And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it.” (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burns the complainers alive. That’ll teach them. 11:1

  100. "And wile the flesh [of the quails] was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague. "The Bible isn’t too clear about what these poor folks did to upset God so much; all it says is that they had “lusted.” 11:33

  101. More plagues and pestilence sent by God. God repeats one of his favorite promises: “your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness.” 14:12, 29, 14:32-37

  102. God gives more instructions for the ritualistic killing of animals. The smell of burning flesh is “a sweet savour unto the Lord.” 15:3, 13-14, 24

  103. The Israelites find a man picking up sticks on the sabbath. God commands them to kill him by throwing rocks at him. 15:32-36

  104. Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God makes the ground open up and it swallows Korah and his family. And then, just for the hell of it, God has a fire burn 250 men (friends of Korah?) to death. 16:20-49

  105. After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 innocent bystanders, the people complained saying, “ye have killed the people of the Lord.” So God, who doesn’t take kindly to criticism, sends a plague on the people. And “they that died in the plague were 14,700.” 16:41-50

  106. God threatens to kill those who murmur. To which the people reply, “Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish … Shall we be consumed with dying?” 17:12-13

  107. According to this verse, it is wise to stay away from holy things and places – like churches. God will kill you if you get too close. 18:3

  108. God shows us how to make new friends by saying : “The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.” 18:7

  109. God describes once again the procedure for ritualistic animal sacrifices. such rituals must be extremely important to God, since he makes their performance a “statute” and “covenant” forever. Why, then don’t Bible-believers perform these sacrifices anymore? Don’t they realize how God must miss the “sweet savour” of burning flesh? Don’t they believe God when he says “forever”? 18:17-19

  110. Don’t get near holy things or “pollute” them. If you do, God will kill you. 18:22, 32

  111. The purification of the unclean. These absurd rituals, cruel sacrifices, and unjust punishments are vitally important to God. He even insists that they are to be “a perpetual statute” to all humankind. 19:1-22

  112. “And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities.” This verse demonstrates the power of prayer: If you ask God, he will destroy entire cities for you. 21:3

  113. God sends “fiery serpents” to bite his chosen people, and many of them die. 21:6

  114. God delivers the Amorites into Moses’ hands. (You’re in God hands with Moses.) So Moses does the usual thing, killing everyone “until their was none left alive.” 21:34-35

  115. God’s people will kill like a lion and then “drink the blood of the slain.” 23:24

  116. God, who is as strong as a unicorn, will eat up the nations, break their bones, and then pierce them through with his arrows. What a guy! 24:8

  117. After the people “commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab,” Moses has them all killed. Then God tells Moses to hang their dead bodies up in front of him; God says that this will satisfy him. 25:1-5

  118. When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas (Aaron’s grandson) sees them and throws a spear “through the man .. and the woman through her belly.” This act pleases God so much that “the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.” But not before 24,000 had died. 25:6-9

  119. God tells Moses how to care for his neighbors by saying: “Vex the Midianites, and smite them.” 25:16-17

  120. The ground swallow Korah and his companions and a fire consumes 250 men. 26:10

  121. “And Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the Lord.” When you go camping avoid making any unusual fires. 26:61

  122. In these chapters, God provides ridiculously detailed instructions for the ritualistic sacrifice of animals. The burning of their dead bodies smells great to God. Eleven times in these two chapters God says that they are to him a “sweet savour.”

  123. Under God’s direction, Moses’ army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: “Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins – Wow! [Even God gets some of the booty – including the virgins. (31:28-29)] 31:1-54 28-29

  124. God killed all the Egyptian firstborn. 33:4

  125. “The revenger of blood” must murder the murderer just as soon as he sees him. 35:19, 21 127. When a murder is committed the blood pollutes the land. The only way to cleanse it is to spill more blood by killing the killer. 35:33

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Do you also you think you can change Dutch culture to make drugs and prosititution illegal? No one said there are downsides. But it is what it is. Try to educate the people to the truths of Islam if this man is lying. All you can do.

[quote]
Its good to know you have done your homework but how am I to know with what intention it has been done. To me it does not appear as a search for truth but more of an effort to scrutinize controversial issues which can later be used as ammunition during a discussion.
[/quote]
I can read hate websites if that's what I want. Life is a continual spiritual journey, I believe that's our purpose in life. What else could be more important? So I'm not going to waste my time studying religions for such wasteful and unspiritual purposes. It obviously requires an open mind if studying othe philosphies is going to be worthwhile. I have studied all major religions, Islam isn't the special religion I have been fascinated with. Just guphsup. I can't say I post regular on buddhist or hindu boards.

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No, Im not going to start a new thread at Religion forum, but lets compare following the hadith and sunnah with the way the traditions Christians have adopted over the years. Would you start a new reformation of Christian Church to drop these traditions?

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You are confusing yourself!
There is no Hazrat Isa (r.a) is Jew and Hazrat Musa (r.a) is Jew in Islam.

If you mix up the human made science and history with the religious events (Islamic history as in the Quran) you will start to believe that nauzubillah Hazrat Adam was an Ape.
So please try to differ.

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And how can we go about clarifying if not identifying the issue first by protesting.

Estee Lauder
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NO , I am not confusing myself. Moses is Moses as that is his jewish name and he was born a Jew. Jesus is Jesus as he was born jewish. And when a new religion evolved they respected this name under Roman Catholics. When Islam was founded by Prophet Mohammed he changed the names to Musa and Isa. THis only applies under Islamic faith.

Yet Moses remains a jew and so does Jesus. After their death and a new religion is founded you can not automatically discount their nationalities or religious practice. Catholics are still catholics today and so are the Jews still jewish, you can not assume they are now automatically all muslim because that is not so. This is the problem I have that muslims can call them by different names but how can we automatically change their religions. Its wiping out who they really were. Revisionist history or misspeak? You mean to tell me all the christians and jews before Prophet mohammed are considered muslim? ----explain this to me , because I do not think they are.

~*~*~*~*~ How Many Threads you have Opened in Cafe ? ~*~*~*~*~
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Why does it keep coming back to someone saying you can't protest? I have said at least 4 times in this thread that Muslims have a perfect right to protest, just like anyone else in a free country. Just don't expect much from it, that's all. Educating and setting the right example would probably do a whole lot more to further your cause.

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Ub! Yes Moses was Hebrew (or Israeli) by birth. However his tribe should not be confused with the Jewish religion.

Jewish religion is based on the Torah and this book was revealed to a grown up Moses. So he could not have been Jewish by birth.

This hair splitting off course is purely academic. Hebrew or Israeli tribe was monotheistic and that's probably one of the many reasons why they were persecuted by the Pharaoh. So may be we can all agree that Moses was monotheistic by birth.

You have a point about Jesus though. Yes he was born to a family that practiced Jewish faith. However I am not sure if he was 100% Hebrew or Israeli.

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Quran says so. And muslims believe the Quran to be the word of God. And that's convincing enough for those that do believe. Whether you believe it or not, is upto you.

I doubt anyone here would be able to "convince" you. Because i've already told you why they're revered to be "muslims" and affiliated with Islam because their message was the same. But i realize you're looking for conviction, not explanation. I'll repeat again, All the prophets brought the same message to the people that worship only One God (Allah) and be obidient to the creator. Moses (a.s) and Jesus (a.s.) were both sent to a group of people, like the messengers before them whether it's Noah (a.s.) or Lut (a.s.). Islam was not for a specific people, it was meant for the whole humanity.
If you read bible, Jesus (a.s.) was told to go to the Jews and not in the way of Gentiles. That in itself explains what i said up there. By faith and religion all the prophets and messengers have been Muslim and followers of Islam because Islam itself means to Submit. To worship one and only God (Allah). Period.

The whole issue of how you have trouble accepting is not that of logic, but rather faith. Not much others can do about that.

I do pray for your guidance though.

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Tegs! you are mixing what a book says vs. how people follow that book.

Ubs is talking about how Muslims practice, while you insist on explaining away the metaphysical concepts of Islam.

Even a freshman student of Quran knows that it says a lot nice things. However the "vocal Muslims" of today have selectively picked Quran to say nasty things about others.

Yes the original message in Islam was pretty inclusive. Over the years Muslims have tried very hard to make Islam very exclusive down to individual firqas (sects).

If one goes by your logic "By faith and religion all the prophets and messengers have been Muslim", then anyone claiming to be the follower of those messengers should be treated as Muslim too.

Another hole in your logic is that if Jesus Christ was Muslim, then a Muslim should follow him and accept him as a savior aka messenger. Thus a Muslim should not get agitated if someone calls him Isaaee (or in the same vane a Yahoodi).

That's kind of patronizing tegs. We should avoid this "mine is bigger than thine" thinking.

You go ahead and pray for your own guidance? And let Ubs pray for hers.

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Yes logic , that old demon logic as it looses out to people who suffer frontal lobe epilepsy and find people who refute all else and leave it to faith. I'm glad science relies on logic else god's intervention would have failed and my dad would have died with faith and not survived because of bypass surgery. Heck , if humanity did not fail in their faith , Magellan would not have found the straight, Captain Cook would not have discovered Van Dienam's land and Amerigo Verspucci would not have named America. If it weren't for imagination and wanting more then life offers for the many in the here and now we would not have faith. It's too bad people are willing to suffer or unwillingly suffer in life but have the faith it's going to get better when dead. Quite the conundrum when one uses logic . I suppose grass is always greener on the other side afterall.

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I'm studying medicine, i know all about science and faith as a whole. Thanks for your cynical post.

Why do i even bother...

G'Day to you...

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Yes i do believe Jesus (a.s.) was muslim, but name one christian that follows the original message. Heck, you cannot even find the orginial bible anymore (Injeel as it is/was known). Which version do you follow? There is no one/original bible, hence it's been injected with man-made text.

Quran has no version. It's ONE and ONLY and has remained like that since it was revealed. Islam does not prohibit the inter-relations between 'people of the book'. Quran revealed the stages of embryo and development of a fetus, long before Science picked up on it. Everything that is discovered, is in perfect coordination with Quran. Jeez...how did thaaaaaaaat happen? Bedouins didn't know about "science".

But, yes i do agree that it is some muslims who make the entire religion look like a joke. That is why it ties into the topic at hand here....that it should be those muslims that don't follow Islam or misrepresent it who should be highlighted. Don't go around labeling the religion or Quran as the book that promotes terrorism.

Islam and Quran actually recognize the other prophets. So there's no question of well mozlems don't accept Jesus. Mozlems do accept Jesus (a.s.) as a prophet, not as a savior. Because if he was a savior, then why would he need to pray to God?

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How does anyone truly know what Jesus, Moses or Prophet Mohammed said ? Afterall , did not humans write everything, and humans are mortal and prone to typogrpahical, penmanship and perhaps even personal editorials as you mention in regards to Jesus.

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Eh...No! that's not what i said. The original Bible that was revealed to Jesus (a.s.) is not found today. Because there is no ONE bible...there are versions of it.

I have no doubt about Jesus (a.s.) and his message, because Quran relates that. So it is the bible as we know it today that has been corrupted, not Jesus(a.s.)'s message. The message was/is/will be the same. But how will people know that unless they have the real bible....there is none!

It's been injected with writings and modified along timeline. Quran is in its original form, and the things that Quran relates about the world, are becoming known by the advancement of science today. You can pick up any Quran, there are no versions, there are no modified Qurans. Every Quran is the same. Hence errorless, or else it would've been modified too.

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But the bottom line in all of it is , its been intefered by man's hand when putting words to paper and man is not infallible even when God may be watching. Man's propensity to embellish , misconstrue and embed is a definite as the sun rising and settling.

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Name one Christian? What a self-righteous statement!

There are millions nay billions of God-fearing Christians on this earth and you say name one. Wah Wah Tegs bro! you take the cake in this discussion.

Tegs Bro! Fear Allah! That's blasphemous to say the least. Even Quran doesn't say that the real Bible doesn't exit.

And what you mean by original Bible? There are copies of new testament that go back 100's of years.

Tegs Bro! Quran was first compiled in the time of Usman RAH. Before that time a "documented" Quran only existed in bits and pieces as written on parchments, sheep skin, and tree bark.

Would you be "sensitive" enough to allow a Christian to point this to you? If not, then how do you take liberty to diss other people's Holy Books? Is that what Islam teaches or some Muslims just take upon themselves to badmouth other religions?