Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
I agree burq............ it seems christian bashing and jew bashing is much more acceptable then question the veracity of everything written within the quran. Imagine who gets most of the warning points......................
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Fine, I apologize if i have crossed the line.
I do respect other religions. I have immense amount of respect for people of all faith, but i do not appreciate others chalking up Quran as the book that encourages terrorism/extremism or any of that sort of stuff, or even the stereotype that All, or almost all muslims are terrorists just because they believe in the Quran.
I do fear Allah, and i take back my words. May Allah (swt) forgive me.
I don't think i can say anymore in this thread, than i've already said. Bottomline, the film should have been made to focus on the people who make Islam look bad by not following Quran. Not on the Quran itself as being the source of all evil as it's being portrayed.
That's all i'll say...and with that i retire from this discussion altogether.
I thank you all for your contribution...please carry on. And....pardon me if hurt anyone's feelings or beliefs. I didn't mean it. (ub, semi, bpsx, utd, everyone really...)
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Fine, I apologize if i have crossed the line.
I do respect other religions. I have immense amount of respect for people of all faith, but i do not appreciate others chalking up Quran as the book that encourages terrorism/extremism or any of that sort of stuff, or even the stereotype that All, or almost all muslims are terrorists just because they believe in the Quran.
I do fear Allah, and i take back my words. May Allah (swt) forgive me.
I don't think i can say anymore in this thread, than i've already said. Bottomline, the film should have been made to focus on the people who make Islam look bad by not following Quran. Not on the Quran itself as being the source of all evil as it's being portrayed.
That's all i'll say...and with that i retire from this discussion altogether.
I thank you all for your contribution...please carry on. And....pardon me if hurt anyone's feelings or beliefs. I didn't mean it. (ub, semi, bpsx, utd, everyone really...)
Tegs bro! Apologies accepted. There is a soft heart in that tough shell of a man afterall. :)
No harm done. As Muslims we must learn to be tolerant even in the face of adversity. Then only then, people will start respecting us.
Just remember how our Messenger Pbuh responded to the woman who threw garbage on Him everyday of the week.
Just remember how our Messenger Pbuh treated the Kafir who dumped the innards of a camel on Him.
Did He Pbuh launch a slash-and-burn campaign against such enemies? No! He always responded with kindness, tolerance, and love.
The day we start following Him, believe you me, others will quit making such movies.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Why does it keep coming back to someone saying you can't protest? I have said at least 4 times in this thread that Muslims have a perfect right to protest, just like anyone else in a free country. Just don't expect much from it, that's all. Educating and setting the right example would probably do a whole lot more to further your cause.
Semi, the point is we can educate our own people but to no avail for non-muslim people who don't have the opportunity. So protests get the attention of people first then later on the clarification and purpose of the protest becomes apparent.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
If one goes by your logic "By faith and religion all the prophets and messengers have been Muslim", then anyone claiming to be the follower of those messengers should be treated as Muslim too.
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Does Quran or Islam second your thought?
I dont think Its the logic of Teggy only.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Semi, the point is we can educate our own people but to no avail for non-muslim people who don't have the opportunity. So protests get the attention of people first then later on the clarification and purpose of the protest becomes apparent.
The kinds of movies Wilder is making wouldn't exist if Muslims were educated to avoid extremism. So there is obviuosly room to educate there.
But there are also ways to educate the non-Muslim public. There are more than 450 mosques in the Netherlands, why can't they have outreach efforts to educate?
Again, I will say, I am all in favor of peaceful protest for these type things. Unfortunately there has been so much violent protest it only seems to legitimize Wilder's pov in some eyes.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
The kinds of movies Wilder is making wouldn't exist if Muslims were educated to avoid extremism. So there is obviuosly room to educate there.
But there are also ways to educate the non-Muslim public. There are more than 450 mosques in the Netherlands, why can't they have outreach efforts to educate?
Again, I will say, I am all in favor of peaceful protest for these type things. Unfortunately there has been so much violent protest it only seems to legitimize Wilder's pov in some eyes.
I understand your POV as well however if you agree with mine then kindly participate in our efforts as well to spread things you hear that clarify such misleading information. If you claim to be a good human being then its your job as well to fight things that are not true unless you yourself believe they are. It is not just our job to clarify, non-muslims who know what is wrongly stated should also raise a voice against it. There is no shame in that.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
I understand your POV as well however if you agree with mine then kindly participate in our efforts as well to spread things you hear that clarify such misleading information. If you claim to be a good human being then its your job as well to fight things that are not true unless you yourself believe they are. It is not just our job to clarify, non-muslims who know what is wrongly stated should also raise a voice against it. There is no shame in that.
I agree.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Does Quran or Islam second your thought?
I dont think Its the logic of Teggy only.
Well Quran consistently gives "good tidings" aka good news to the people of the book and every one who follows a righteous path.
Extremists however ignore all such verses, and hand-pick few ayah (totally out of context) to support terror and intolerance all in the name of Islam.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
No, actually it's from the dictionary.
Which one?
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That's all this discussion is about. The forcefulness of "my way is right" so how dare you make a film that says otherwise.
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No it's not...and btw, do you support the suggestion that the Quran be banned?
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It's not about a slight, perceived or otherwise. It's wrong.
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You didn't even bother to read what I wrote...yet you have the audacity to claim it's wrong...great..
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if anything they are more altruistic and champion social causes over philosophies where man follows doctrine to achieve a physical and carnal afterlife.
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What does one have to do with the other, except as a derogatory pot shot? Yeah...you're really open minded.
The suggestion was, those who practice Eastern philosophies are more self-concerned with respect to a spiritual identity than with a socio-political identity. No idea where your "social causes" rant is coming from...and do note, that unlike yourself, I am NOT into the denigration of other faiths. I simply don't do it.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
NO , I am not confusing myself. Moses is Moses as that is his jewish name and he was born a Jew. Jesus is Jesus as he was born jewish. And when a new religion evolved they respected this name under Roman Catholics. When Islam was founded by Prophet Mohammed he changed the names to Musa and Isa. THis only applies under Islamic faith.
LOL...you're not serious...are you? Jesus and Moses are very anglicized.
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This is the problem I have that muslims can call them by different names but how can we automatically change their religions.
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Islam has a specific meaning, and does not necessarily tightly correlate to the religious and political identity of what a Muslim is. In particular, from a qualitative point of view, Moses and Jesus were among those Prophets who submitted their will to God..
To suggest that they were practicing Islam is not a political statement (although you are taking it to be one).
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
^ A political statement???
You must not have understood. I was refering to their proper religious denominations . Nothing to do with taking it to meaning politics. I still don't understand how we can call them muslim when Moses and Jesus were and are in death jewish. Even catholics recognize this fact. Something I have questioned why islam has wiped out their true histories as if it wasn't so. Why not recognize that Islam also venerates the jews ie moses and jesus as the faith they both preached in and were knowleagble in.. Jesus was not preaching christianity. Group of men got together after his death and slowly called the believing of jesus christ Christianity. But the christians never discard their jewish heritage. And to me , Islam has. Otherwise if islam had not would this void the extremists and others in declaring the removal of Israel. ...... also would this also void the teachings by clerics in avoiding christians and jews ???
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Which one?
I imagine most English dictionaries. I pulled that from Miriam.
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No it's not...and btw, do you support the suggestion that the Quran be banned?
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Of course not. Don't put me in the same category as this fear mongering racist.
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You didn't even bother to read what I wrote...yet you have the audacity to claim it's wrong...great..
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I've read it a few times now, it was only a 2 sentence statement afer all.
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What does one have to do with the other, except as a derogatory pot shot? Yeah...you're really open minded.
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Those who follow religion for the main purpose of achieving an eternal, carnal aferlife are not religious for altruistic reasons. People of many faiths have that faith, so it is not a pot shot at Islam.
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The suggestion was, those who practice Eastern philosophies are more self-concerned with respect to a spiritual identity than with a socio-political identity. No idea where your "social causes" rant is coming from
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Then your definition of religions differnt from ALL other religions - not just Eastern philosophies. Religions are for the most part spiritual studies - concerned about social causes and spiritual growth - not a socio-political identity. I don't consider that type of philosophy as self centered, but rather the opposite - a deeply religious person is selfless.
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..and do note, that unlike yourself, I am NOT into the denigration of other faiths. I simply don't do it.
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Unlike yourself, I don't consider talking openly or honestly about a religion as deragatory.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
^ A political statement???
Yup.
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You must not have understood. I was refering to their proper religious denominations . Nothing to do with taking it to meaning politics. I still don't understand how we can call them muslim when Moses and Jesus were and are in death jewish.
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Because we are referring to them as Muslim because of the qualities they exhibited, not because of their socio-ethnic background. Yes, they were Jewish...people of the Book/covenant. Why is the state of being a follower of Islam...a Muslim (i.e. a submitter) mutually exclusive from that identity?
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
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Those who follow religion for the main purpose of achieving...
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I don't think you're in any position to even suggest what what the intent of other people are in this regard. Had you even an iota of an understanding of the Muslim psyche, you'd understand how far off your stance is...which, to put it kindly, falls quite nicely in teh category of a failed attempt at an observation.
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Then your definition of religions differnt from ALL other religions - not just Eastern philosophies.
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I didn't even try to define religion, nor did I make a claim on how altrusitic one is with respect ot the other. Such concerns are a result of your preoccupations, and projected opinions onto me....and nothing to do with what I wrote.
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Religions are for the most part spiritual studies - concerned about social causes and spiritual growth - not a socio-political identity.
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Again, I didn't attempt to define what is and is not a religion...if you think a socio-political identity has nothing to do with religion, you're delusional.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Yup.
Because we are referring to them as Muslim because of the qualities they exhibited, not because of their socio-ethnic background. Yes, they were Jewish...people of the Book/covenant. Why is the state of being a follower of Islam...a Muslim (i.e. a submitter) mutually exclusive from that identity?
Pics bro! your statements do not match with what "WE" the Muslims practice.
You say Jewish ...... people of the Book/covenant were Muslims then they are still Muslims! And so are the Christians.
Then why do "We the Muslims" do not accord them an equal status? Isn't it hypocrisy at the least?
Muslims must practice what they claim, otherwise it is just hyperbole.
p.s. Instead of hammering Ubs, try to understand that she is talks about "Muslim practices", while you continue talking about some past myths.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
just curious - what has the Islamic media done to counter balance this negative propaganda? The only worthwhile movie I can remember is THE MESSAGE - and ironically the guy who made that movie, mustapha Akkad himself died in a bomb blast in jordan, carried out by Abu Mussab al zarqawi.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Yup.
Because we are referring to them as Muslim because of the qualities they exhibited, not because of their socio-ethnic background. Yes, they were Jewish...people of the Book/covenant. Why is the state of being a follower of Islam...a Muslim (i.e. a submitter) mutually exclusive from that identity?
So are you saying Islam is a socio-ethnic background also. It still does not explain why the true heritage of moses and jesus is not recognized as jewish . Of course they believe in GOD, but not in Allah as muslims presribe their faith. Many muslims say moses and jesus are muslim but I don't see how that is true, even if it is still monotheistic veneration of same. Muslims did not even exist in their era.
Based on this premise , islam then can infer all people who are jews and christians during moses and post jesus tobe be muslim as they venerate same god. I interpret this as subliminal disregard for the real religions these people followed and expanisionism via Quran of denying other faiths . Is this what tolerance trully is then? Acknowledge their socio-economic existence but not accept their ways of GOd worship to me questions what is preached as islamic tolerance? You might as well deny all jews and christians today who follow the same god and claim them muslim. And by your explanations and many who believe the same sort of logic regarding Moses and Jesus as muslim should sit back and relax when jews/christians and others criticise how islam is practiced and how islamofascists integrate islamic teachings upon society and how they wish to encroach it upon western societies their dogma such as shariah law.
Does the Quran discuss Moses and Jesus being muslim in a socio-economic thought or does it not merely label them as muslims? It wasn't til I was an early teenager that I realized Moses was indeed a real jew born and raised and so was Jesus. With this enligtenment I still don't understand why they are labelled muslims in our faith.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
just curious - what has the Islamic media done to counter balance this negative propaganda? The only worthwhile movie I can remember is THE MESSAGE - and ironically the guy who made that movie, mustapha Akkad himself died in a bomb blast in jordan, carried out by Abu Mussab al zarqawi.
As long as it is a muslim with dirty finger nails tearing off a woman's clitoris, as long as its is a muslim who puts his wife into a burqa as a non entitiy on the street, as long as its a muslim who denies women right to education , as long as its a muslim who wants to annihilate other muslims with a suicide bomb, as long as its a muslim who goes to a market crowded with women and children and blows them all up to smithereens its OK James-Bhaand. Don't you know this by now, it's the islamic way to scream for bloodybutchery when a cartoon or book is published. JamesBhaand you must be more tolerant and don't ask such juvenile questions. What has the islamic media done? You have to ask???? Haven't you seen those beheading and stoning videos televised? seriously, get TV. And you too will see how muslim media helps the west understand Islam and muslims.
Re: Blasphemous film ready to release
Pics bro! your statements do not match with what "WE" the Muslims practice.
How so? I mean, granted...many certainly don't revere the other prophets enough and seem distant from them as if they "belong" to another faith group. I don't hold that view. Prophets of God are in their own league, and are peers amongst themselves.
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You say Jewish ...... people of the Book/covenant were Muslims then they are still Muslims! And so are the Christians.
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I was talking of Jesus and Moses, and all of the Prophets of God.
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p.s. Instead of hammering Ubs, try to understand that she is talks about "Muslim practices", while you continue talking about some past myths.
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I know very well what she's saying, I happen to disagree to a certain extent.