Allah and Global warming.

Re: Allah and Global warming.


You are agreeing that Science has flaw in it, and still you want to believe on it. OK don't believe in ALLAH but there are certain things that need explanation and science is not able to find it. If for example Science fails to explain them than what are you gonna do? There must be an end to something right.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

Please read my post again.

1- I never said YOU called anyone extreme religious.

2- I placed a ? sign at the end of the sentence yes, but that was a rhetoric question. Not an answer to any question by another question.

3- I do not have supressed feeling about atheism… heck, I have absolutely no suppressed feelings about anything when posting in general. Never cared for anyone and don’t think posting on forums is some kind of popularity contest. :hehe: :wink:

Re: Allah and Global warming.

Science never claimed to be perfect and I am not looking for all and everything explanation. I am perfectly fine with incremental evidence and understand science takes time.

[QUOTE]
If for example Science fails to explain them than what are you gonna do? There must be an end to something right.
[/QUOTE]

Nope, doesn't have to be an end to anything. Scientists achieve something after failing at it many times, that's the beauty of scientific method. If you are looking for instant gratification, yes, religion is the answer. You just pick up one of the many "holy" books and believe everything in it. that's the easy way out!

Re: Allah and Global warming.

well maybe to muslims familiar with the surah it means global warming, to me it is a line that talks about how the balance set up by God shouldnt be disrupted by mankind slacking off in providing justice.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

and I believe that either interpretation could be accurate.......

Re: Allah and Global warming.

so why is this approach okay when it comes to science but not when it comes to faith?
why is it so wrong to believe that our understanding of the Quran may not yet be perfect and that it may take some time?

Re: Allah and Global warming.

erm I do not fully understand the entire discussion but seems to me like you guys are basically arguing over two different theories - the theory of relativity (determinism) and the quantum mechanics (probability). The quantum theory implies that there is a limit to how much scientists could know about a particle since there is randomness and uncertainty in the universe. Einstein, a firm believer of order in the universe, didn't like this idea and said "God does not play dice", meaning everything follows a pattern.

Today, it is generally accepted that quantum physics is true. In the words of Stephen Hawking, "Not only does God play dice with the universe, he throws them where they cannot be seen. All the evidence shows that God is actually quite a gambler, and the universe is a great casino, where dice are thrown, and roulette wheels spin on every occasion”. Another physicist, Niels Bohr, responded "Einstein, don't tell God what to do with his dice".

And guess what ... this Einstein-Bohr argument still ain't over, as is obvious from this thread. Einstein tried to reconcile quantum physics with the theory of relativity in search for a unified theory that explained every single thing about how the universe works but to date no such theory-of-everything has been put forward. I say what the hell, why do we need to reconcile the two concepts and then reconcile that theory-of-everything with religion? Einstein wasn't dumb, I'm not ignoring his point of view neither am I rejecting quantum physics and I'm definitely not rejecting the Quran because neither Einstein nor Heisenberg were smarter than Allah.

If God did not play dice with us humans, we would have no free will and there would be no concept of heaven and hell. BUT, does God play dice with the universe too or is every little atom, every little speck controlled by Allah? In terms of global warming, are we destroying the planet and contributing to global warming or was this destruction of the planet by humans also predetermined by God? There is no definite answer to this as of now, it is up to your own beliefs. I do not need science to prove to me that there is a God and I don't need the Quran to prove to me how babies are born or how the planet is becoming warmer!

Einstein said "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." I will dare disagree with him because life isn't all black and white, there's many gray areas. One can be spiritual and practical at the same time so there *is *a third way of living your life. Which one you choose is up to you, I'm quite happy living in the gray area where I try to seek knowledge but if I cannot find any definite answers, I try not to play God. Just because I can't explain something with logic doesn't mean it isn't true. It's all about faith.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

Dude, please, when you throw Scientific jargons, please use some common sense. You went way too over board in trying to prove a Quranic verse wrong. There is no unpredictability or wildness involve in the way our solar system behaves. An under-grade student of Physics with basic knowledge of theory of General relativity can calculate the path of any body of our solar system with quite a precision. This precise calculation is the reason why NASA can design the path of its space missions to ultimate accuracy. Mars pathfinder launched in 96 and landed on Mars in 97 would never be possible if Mars was jumping in and out of its orbit in unpredictable way.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

what she said…
I think.

:chai:

Re: Allah and Global warming.

OK, in the light of my views on women, secularism and man-woman relationships and all that, precious few Alims would rate me as a good person, but I fulfill the Faraiz and like to think of myself as a good human being and I hope that Allah SWT will forgive the other things...

Anyways, anyone who says Islam is not logical is an idiot. ALL of Islams commandments, ALL OF THEM have a reason. Blind faith is not part of Islam.

Also, Islam and Science are one. About the made of dirt thing, consider this: We are all made dominantly of Carbon and Nitrogen. When stars burn out their hydrogen fuel, they start burning helium to produce Carbon. In larger stars, this process continues up till Iron. Initially, there was only Hydrogen. Heavy elements like Carbon are sprewed forth into space when these stars explode. We are made from STAR DUST, literally.

Also, Allah SWT says that n the Judgement Day, "Suraj Dunya se sawa naizay par hoga". THat too is correct. 5 Billion years from now, the sun will use up all is Hydrogen and start contracting under gravitational pressures. As it contracts, it will get hotter and start burning Helium. This will cause it to expand; entering the RED GIANT phase. SCIENCE says that it will devour the orbits of venus and mercury and come VERY CLOSE to earth.

And there are countless other example. **Give me ONE scientific theory in contradiction with the Quran! That is a challenge.

**And BTW, I believe in Evolution. I often think about why so many people with the same views as mine on society are atheists. And the answer perhaps is that I pray all that time to Allah SWT to strengthen my Iman, no matter what happens. You guys should do that too...

Re: Allah and Global warming.

I'm not a physicist, I just put forward the two sides of the debate as I understood them and then I stated where I stand. Theory of relativity is helpful in ways that quantum mechanics isn't and vice versa. TLK bhai just reiterated Einstein's side of the argument - that there's no unpredictability involved in how our solar system behaves. But this does not disprove the quantum physics which is also true. Why must we believe in one or the other and why must our religious beliefs be affected by what we understand, or try to understand, about the universe? That's all I'm saying.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

**
nuh's global flood: apparently the entire world was full of water and then it wasn't. geologists say lol.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

I was not aware that Nuh's flood was a scientific theory. If you knew how to read Doc, you would know that I asked for a scientific theory that contradicts Islam. Any major theory.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

good point. i re read. i thought you were saying the opposite. hard to see on the HTC :(

Re: Allah and Global warming.

BTW, I am not sure where this conversation is going as i did not read after 2nd post, but I am not at all in favor of using Quran as a book of science or book of math. I dont think we should use Quran to prove scientific theories or if there is clash between a theory and a verse of Quran, try to dis Quran.

A successful theory is just an explanation of a phenomenon - until proven wrong. If we were having a similar discussion in the times of Ptolemy, our Pro-Science friends would be arguing that Quran is wrong because earth stands still and the whole universe revolves around it. We know now that the geocentric theory was a wrong one. Who knows that how many of the current theories would end up being a wrong one in next 1000 years. So trying to compare something (a scientific theory) that could be wrong with something (a Quranic verse) that is absolute truth , is a flawed argument.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

you should talk to psyah, diwana etc. they are experts who are absolutely convinced based on the quran that evolution is a lie.

why is it that the same exact verses can lead to people being convinced of the exact opposites? or in muzna's case - global warming and social justice? where is the rigor in interpretation?

Re: Allah and Global warming.

The Quran is a book for ALL MUSLIMS. I was not aware that Psyah or Diwanna have been appointed by Allah to explain the Quran. And if not, I have as much freedom to interpret the Quran and Islam as they do.

BTW, NOT ONE Muslim biologist worth his salt denies evolution. It's as clear as the fact that we exist.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

Where is this fact coming from ?

Looking from your goggles it nullifies everything then , religion , atheism , human race , science , why stop at religion only ? Because you hate religion ?

Re: Allah and Global warming.

i'm gonna quote is, just cos i feel it is worth quoting.

Re: Allah and Global warming.

actually i thought about it. scientific theory speculates that the earth was NEVER, ENTIRELY covered with water. The quran said, thats what happened and even that too, during nuh's time a few thousand years ago. there is no geologic evidence of a completely watered age. zero.

edit: plus judging by how many animals nuh had on the boat, one can argue nuh created the first aircraft carrier. take THAT science.