I have lived my entire life in Saudi Arabia, a deeply conservative society. These days, I am here in Pakistan on vacation. I have a little observation which I would like to discuss with you people.
Since Abaya is not mandatory in this country, and mixed gatherings are allowed, I want to understand the psychology of people (male especially)
You visit any park, (most of) colleges, universities, restaurants etc. you can see a number of couples hanging around, guys hitting on girls, boyfriend girlfriend culture is fast spreading…
You see a number of guys here who go out with their other male friends to different shopping places and do ‘taank jhaank’ or what is commonly called ‘poondi’, knowing fully well that they might be coming to the same place with their mother and sister in a few days. How would they feel walking around different shops when some other dude would be staring at his own mother? Or sister? Will they be cool with it? (especially when you know that your sister or mother are…well…hot!)
Will all these guys be equally cool when they come to know that their sister has a boyfriend? Or someone is flirting with his mother? Because as far as I have seen in this country, boys themselves do not feel a slightest bit of guilt in having a lady friend talking with them for hours on cell phone, making plans for their covert meetings.
What is their stance of all these brothers and sons? Are we slowly adopting the western cultural values or is this all a hypocrisy from men? Conservatives/Religious for their families, seculars/liberals for the outside?
And I am not talking about the affluent part of the society, or those people who have spent much of their lives in the west and have adopted the western beliefs. I am talking about the general masses, the guys from average middle class families in Pakistan. What is their thinking? How do you think Pakistan’s culture would shape in the next few years?
It is sad, to say the least. Its very embarassing to go out in Pakistan with family where they have couples dating and doing all kind of things.. holding hands and stuff. I live in the US, and I will say that it is very embarassing. Not like these things aren't part of US culture but to go to Pakistan... where we love our culture, how good our society is as far as all the dating things are and to find something opposite is totally depressing.
And I am a girl, I've seen girls just as much part of all that dating thing and doing thanka jhanki as you've mentioned as the guys there. Of course guys aren't dating themselves, they do have a girl with them. The girl is equally responsible for all this.
Sir. Although I respect and agree with your viewpoint. The thing is where u come from life is simpler, u guys from young age r grooming 2,3,4 wives. so correspondingley u would not need ‘poondi’. In Pakistan, men are less fortunate.
Waisey, couples roaming around is bad ofcourse. And these so called ‘cool’ girls without knowingtotally ruined thier lives from the moment they touch some guy.
Regarding the question of the ‘poondiers’. Ironically, much of the time thier own sisters are disallowed to leave the house.
Bottom line: Nobody resists/avoids doing what they need/like to do unless a big incentive is there to not do it.
Islam tries to lead people to the right path by love, but when love is insufficient, Islam invokes Fear.
These men obviously surpass the Love/Obidience to God to not do it.
Then, coming on to the ‘fear’ deterent - It is non-existent.
As Pakistani society only looks down on girls in such matter.
As Pakistani society only looks down on girls in such matter.
Yes and thats the point. It doesn´t matter what the boys are doing.
Our society is changing to fast. Like I live in Europe and u don´t have any problem with that takh jhank, but when u go to Pakistan. It´s always a prob in the bazar. All the guys just stare at you.
1) You shouldn't use the word 'paradox' for this thread because a paradox requires that one situation makes the other situation absolutely impossible and vice versa. For example, here's a paradox, it's called the Pinocchio paradox, this is where Pinocchio says "my nose will grow NOW", mind BLASTING, isn't it?
2) Your thread can be boiled down to "Apney ghar meiN maa behen nahi hai?"
well Eddee iam from KSA as well bon there studied and all that but i wonder how u call saudia a conseravtive have u seen saudies how they stare at women,and talking about pk dating system have u seen and night the ameera girls comes out with there drivers and the ameer boys saudi and they meet at supermarkets being some of there boyfirnd where have u lived in KSA im talking about Riyadh where there is stickness and the rest JEddha and al-khobar girls even bother to wear abaya and this is seen by my own eyes not just saying…so brother from where do u belon i mean city .This is not the problem in pak its all over ASIA so …sirf pakistan ka nam kyo badnam:naraz:
You think Arab men don’t do the same thing? You think ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE SUFFOCATING society of Saudia Arabia is a healthy alternative?
I’m sorry. I’d take an open atmosphere where men and women can mingle any day over the crap cultural experience I had in Saudi when I went there for Umrah.
I like the freedom of wearing what I want, being able to wear COLORS as oppose to black all day as if I’m in a frikkin’ cemetary, and being able to talk to people of the opposite sex.
Is there chichorapan? Yes, and its something that Pakistani MEN and WOMEN need to work on. Our mothers could start by teaching their sons to have some f’ing respect for women for once.
But to come here and give us this aire that your society in Arabia is so much better - whatever, you can live in that boring quagmire - I’ll take an outing to Park Towers with my handsome men giving me a look over and a smile any day over being hidden in a burqa against my will in Arabia.
PCG has very valid point here. Rather than hide women behind Abaya, treat them as properties and hide them, better to raise your sons and daughters to treat all people with respect regardless of their gender. You go to a bazaar in an Islaamic country and the males seem to think that its ok to ogle and leer at any woman not dressed in a tent. That is completely unacceptable behavior. And the resolution of requiring women to wear Abaya does not resolve the issue - it condones and perpetuates that behavior.
I think women in Pakistan are coming to this realization that they are deserving of basic respect and that this strict separation of the genders restricts each to half the population. People are social creatures. Theres no reason for this strict separation - IF children are taught to respect others from a young age.
I was born and brought-up in Saudi, and the stuff that goes on there would put any Country to shame. The only difference is that it's done behind doors.. except for 'poondi'. Roam around Tahliya Mall and u'd see similar groups of men walking behind women, offering them their numbers.
Go to the underground parties, sheesha cafes and u'd see couples dating, holding hands etc.
CE, the tinted windows are because of the climate.. summers in the Middle East are horrible!
Again, issues like these (texting, dating, trading phone numbers etc) - they're all related to upbringing. If you raise your children right from the start with the morality that you'd like to instill then there shouldnt be problems like these.
If you pound them over the head, threaten, punish, suffocate with stifling rules then of course they'll rebel when the hormones kick in. But raise them with love, give them appropriate freedoms when they've earned it by being responsible, set a good example and you wont have to worry as much when you send them out into the world.
Nobody can change the basic human instincts...boys like girls and girls like boys. Go with the flow and be a good human being...everything else will follow.
I think women in Pakistan are coming to this realization that they are deserving of basic respect and that this strict separation of the genders restricts each to half the population. People are social creatures. Theres no reason for this strict separation - IF children are taught to respect others from a young age.
i agree i live in th UK and guys here dont feel the need to do poondi thats because girls and boys have been mixing since they wer 5 and it is nothng new to them...and also a few of my friends who went to all girls schools wen they finish those schools they seem to become quite obbsessed with boys and enjoy the attention...even if the attention is just friendly hello they seem to think it means the guy likes them...so i guess similarly...wen u have segregation from a young age..wen they start to mix...well like th animals we are things happen
