Zardari - 2008 -2013

[kakaballi]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

...The reason everyone thinks that they were more corrupt is because the media-SC nexus was campaigning against PPP as soon they got in. Geo and that corrupt to the core CJ ran a campaign to malign ppp and that's what people base their opinion on....

Not entirely true.

If you ask a person in Namibia that what does he/she think about a country which tried to resolve long term energy crises through rental power plants, that person, who has never heard of a country called Pakistan, would tell you that it smells of corruption from 100 miles.

Why is it that the whole media is against PPP? Why is that there hasn't been a mega corruption scandal so far against PML govt which we used to hear (and still do from Sindh) every month during PPP regime? There must be some anti-PML elements in media. Can't they come up with scandals of the scale PPP is known for?

Why is it that PPP lost support from several cities which used to be PPP's forts (Faisalabad, for example)? The remaining support for the party is from rural, underdeveloped areas where the landlords are masters of social, economic and religious lives of their subjects.

The fact is that PPP workers sacrifice a lot for the "leaders" to enjoy the loot and plunder whenever they can. And they do it with impunity. Zardari reconciled with political opponents and establishments to survive and we must give him credit for that. That does not absolve the party of massive loot maar they did.

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

A thread in praise of Zardari. Xmas in May, right?

No. Go to bashing threads of Zardari during his rule and read my posts against profanity and dirt language used by educated people on this forum. hannibal is the first one to recognize what I was saying during those years.

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

MQM being a part of PPP government is PPP's shame. Why are you mentioning it here?

Being a die hard supporter of MQM, why do you think like that? Are you not happy that PPP and MQM got along in the last five years and more, no one including me ever thought that this alliance would be any successful.

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

The fact is that PPP workers sacrifice a lot for the "leaders" to enjoy the loot and plunder whenever they can. And they do it with impunity. Zardari reconciled with political opponents and establishments to survive and we must give him credit for that. That does not absolve the party of massive loot maar they did.

That is not true. How PPP was bashed by army, CJ and media not due to corruption but because they never liked PPP in the first place. As regard corruption I have asked a question, do you think IK's ruling more than one year of KP made any difference in corruption? Your reasoning for losing the seats by PPP in Punjab are also incorrect. Now that your leader has openly started a campaign against rigging in Punjab, you should come out of your PPP-hatred syndrome and speak some truth.

[Silaaj]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

Are you giving a clean chit to Ayoub, Yahya, Zia and Mushy?

Corruption was invented and introduced by these generals, no wonder their heirs leads a luxury lifestyle?

I know you hate PML and PPP but it is wrong to say that corruption was on its peak during 90s, it was during the military regime where corruption have seen/set new records...but I know u'll never agree to it because of your leadership's stance so I won't go in details...

Bottom line is, Zardari delivered what Pakistan needed the most... For that iam grateful to him...

Im not giving a clean chit to anyone. However, a brief look at the economic figures tells you that Pakistan has had more fiscal stability during military regimes than civilian regimes (though that was more because of consequential factors, and not necessarily because of good policies). A quick look at the corruption perception index also tells you that military rule figures are better than civilian rule figures in Pakistan.

The sole purpose of a democratically elected govt is to have someone who represents you, rather than themselves. In the 90s, we had 2 banks that failed because of PMLN corruption. NBP showed its first ever (and perhaps only) net loss for the year during Benazir's second tenure. Most, if not all of the corruption references lying in courts and NAB right now are linked to the 90s.

Zardari and NS were the result of NROs. Clean chits for crimes they committed. If you are ok with that tradition, then sadly enough, Pakistan will never have meaningful and functional institutions. The rich and powerful will always continue to get away with murder, and the poor will always suffer. Even now, an NRO is whats keeping Zardari out of jail, while NS is busy getting courts to dismiss his references one after another.

@Sachaydino

Do you think IK ruling KP for the last more than one year has able to eliminate corruption?

KP has changed the most for sure. Proper accountability has been setup, and people are actually taken to task for any wrongdoing, irrespective of who they are, as opposed to other provinces, where the power get away with anything, while the poor suffer.

[hanibal]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

Im not giving a clean chit to anyone. However, a brief look at the economic figures tells you that Pakistan has had more fiscal stability during military regimes than civilian regimes (though that was more because of consequential factors, and not necessarily because of good policies). A quick look at the corruption perception index also tells you that military rule figures are better than civilian rule figures in Pakistan.

The sole purpose of a democratically elected govt is to have someone who represents you, rather than themselves. In the 90s, we had 2 banks that failed because of PMLN corruption. NBP showed its first ever (and perhaps only) net loss for the year during Benazir's second tenure. Most, if not all of the corruption references lying in courts and NAB right now are linked to the 90s.

Zardari and NS were the result of NROs. Clean chits for crimes they committed. If you are ok with that tradition, then sadly enough, Pakistan will never have meaningful and functional institutions. The rich and powerful will always continue to get away with murder, and the poor will always suffer. Even now, an NRO is whats keeping Zardari out of jail, while NS is busy getting courts to dismiss his references one after another.

KP has changed the most for sure. Proper accountability has been setup, and people are actually taken to task for any wrongdoing, irrespective of who they are, as opposed to other provinces, where the power get away with anything, while the poor suffer.

Brief look on economic fig? What are u born yesterday? These military era always left he'll of economic and social crisis...and that has damaged Pakistan more than anything...remember what happened in 1971? Remember who brought in Ak-47 and heroine culture, remember the mess mushy created?

Just because u don't like them doesn't take away the good they have done...

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

KP has changed the most for sure. Proper accountability has been setup, and people are actually taken to task for any wrongdoing, irrespective of who they are, as opposed to other provinces, where the power get away with anything, while the poor suffer.

Can you substantiate with some proof what you are saying? According to recent TI survey Pakistan is still the one of most corrupt country. Last time I checked KP was still a part of Pakistan or may by now part of Timbaktoo eh!

[Silaaj]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@hanibal

Brief look on economic fig? What are u born yesterday? These military era always left he’ll of economic and social crisis…and that has damaged Pakistan more than anything…remember what happened in 1971? Remember who brought in Ak-47 and heroine culture, remember the mess mushy created?

Just because u don’t like them doesn’t take away the good they have done…

I am old enough to remember the 70s. And I remember ZAB taking money from the CIA to bring in the drug and gun runners of Afghanistan into Pakistan. I remember Naseerullah Babar overseeing the training of those drug and gun runners, and I remember ZAB launching a military operation in Baluchistan, alienating the province forever.
What I remember of the 80s is economic stability, despite being embroiled in a proxy war in Afghanistan.
What I remember of the 90s is nothing but truck loads of corruption, and a total and intentional destruction of institutions, despite having had civilian rule throughout the decade.
What I remember of Musharraf’s era is essentially a mismanaged martial law, and yes, I hold him accountable for a lot of the ills that plagued Pakistan in the early 2000s. But if you want to give credit to Zardari just because you dont like Musharraf, that is ill-advised. Zardari came into power through an NRO, and specifically went for the presidency, in order to obtain immunity. For you, that is an accomplishment. For me, that is criminal behavior.

@Sachaydino

Can you substantiate with some proof what you are saying? According to recent TI survey Pakistan is still the one of most corrupt country. Last time I checked KP was still a part of Pakistan or may by now part of Timbaktoo eh!

Pakistan shows better face in new corruption index - thenews.com.pk

[Jolie]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

Zardari owes his complete five years rule of loot and plunder to an historically apolitical, in fact, a miraculously apolitical Army general. I'm surprised to see people conveniently overlooking Gen. Kiyani's in giving PPP a free passage despite their antics making them the most unpopular civilian government of all time. Musharraf assured the country, before leaving, that Kiyani is not the type to impose martial law and PPP took full advantage of Army's Chief's lack of political interests and ambition. The situation is different now - the current Army Chief - despite pledging his commitment to protect and safeguard democracy - comes with an apparently imminent and looming stature to instantly intimidate both militants and Nawaz Government.

But I'm glad we have this thread, it's exposed the charade. Now I reckon after this thread, there will be a slight change in certain people's posting trends. It's a common knowledge that martial law and political shahadat worked as oxygen for PPP and fortunately they have none that anymore. Other than pulling the usual ethnic card, there's absolutely nothing PPP can do to have a shot at acting like everyone's favourite victims. Perhaps after this thread, we'll see no more using and abusing of a particular family name, no more crying about rules cut short, no more wailing about deaths that came too soon. No more glorification of rhetoric of 'revenge'. No more commercialisation of grave politics. No more! No more! Oh my dear Lord, no more! As even thy Lord knows that PPP had accomplished what it always wanted - a complete democratic cycle. So no more of the same old.

PPP is now a party that shall be known by Zardari's name and his complete five years of rule. PPP is now a party that was ruled out because of its performance, and it is now a party that will be voted in - if ever by any chance - based on its performance in Sindh. Bhuttos are long dead, and so is Zia. :)

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Silaaj

Pakistan shows better face in new corruption index - thenews.com.pk

You are linking an old news, perhaps that credit goes to Zardari’s government. I am talking about the most recent report, just four days ago.

Pakistan among most corrupt countries - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

[Sachaydino]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Jolie

Zardari owes his complete five years rule of loot and plunder to an historically apolitical, in fact, a miraculously apolitical Army general. I’m surprised to see people conveniently overlooking Gen. Kiyani’s in giving PPP a free passage despite their antics making them the most unpopular civilian government of all time. Musharraf assured the country, before leaving, that Kiyani is not the type to impose martial law and PPP took full advantage of Army’s Chief’s lack of political interests and ambition. The situation is different now - the current Army Chief - despite pledging his commitment to protect and safeguard democracy - comes with an apparently imminent and looming stature to instantly intimidate both militants and Nawaz Government.

But I’m glad we have this thread, it’s exposed the charade. Now I reckon after this thread, there will be a slight change in certain people’s posting trends. It’s a common knowledge that martial law and political shahadat worked as oxygen for PPP and fortunately they have none that anymore. Other than pulling the usual ethnic card, there’s absolutely nothing PPP can do to have a shot at acting like everyone’s favourite victims. Perhaps after this thread, we’ll see no more using and abusing of a particular family name, no more crying about rules cut short, no more wailing about deaths that came too soon. No more glorification of rhetoric of ‘revenge’. No more commercialisation of grave politics. No more! No more! Oh my dear Lord, no more! As even thy Lord knows that PPP had accomplished what it always wanted - a complete democratic cycle. So more of the same old.

PPP is now a party that shall be known by Zardari’s name and his complete five years of rule. PPP is now a party that was ruled out because of its performance, and it is now a party that will be voted in - if ever by any chance - based on its performance in Sindh. Bhuttos are long dead, and so is Zia.

You are the queen of this forum, whatever makes you happy.

Imran Khan evaded tax all his life, talks of ending corruption in 90 days’

ISLAMABAD: Leader of the Opposition in National Assembly Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan responded to Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan’s allegations on Thursday during a press conference in Islamabad. Hurling another set of allegations, Chaudhry Nisar questioned how a person who evaded tax all his life can talk of ending corruption within 90 days.

“At the time when his house was being constructed, there was no mention of where the money was coming from in his tax returns. I am presenting documents regarding a person who did tax evasion for 30 years and did money laundering,” said Chaudhry Nisar, and added that Khan has no livelihood but has international bank accounts.

“When alleging others, he should at least look at himself first. We don’t claim to be angels. Yes, we did some mistakes in the past. But he claims to be an angel. He says he can end tax evasion within 90 days when he himself has evaded tax all his life.”

[Silaaj]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Sachaydino

You are linking an old news, perhaps that credit goes to Zardari’s government. I am talking about the most recent report, just four days ago.

Pakistan among most corrupt countries - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

You didnt read the 2 reports properly. The one I quoted is from Dec 2013, and details the results of the corruption index. According to the report ***“According to diplomatic sources, the Transparency International CPI report for 2013 brings good news for Pakistan, which earlier this year had witnessed the voting out of the PPP government considered the most corrupt in the history of Pakistan”. *** So much for the credit going to Zardari.

The link you cited is merely a news item, and the only meaningful mention it has of Pakistan is "Pakistan is discussing a right to information law", which Im sure you already know was spearheaded by the KPK govt in KPK, and has already been put into practice there. The center is still debating what to do with its version of the law.

I guess that if some people have started recalling PPP rule, it speaks volumes about this PMLN govt.

[Silaaj]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Sachaydino

Imran Khan evaded tax all his life, talks of ending corruption in 90 days’

How stupid is Nisar Ali Khan to have made that statement?
Asad Umar has been yelling in the NA to conduct an audit of all MNA taxes, and all PTI members have signed, and even submitted their docs for scrutiny. But no points for guessing who has been stalling this exercise for more than 6 months now.

[hanibal]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

How stupid is Nisar Ali Khan to have made that statement? Asad Umar has been yelling in the NA to conduct an audit of all MNA taxes, and all PTI members have signed, and even submitted their docs for scrutiny. But no points for guessing who has been stalling this exercise for more than 6 months now.

yeah, everyone is stupid apart from Imran Khan...

[hanibal]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Silaaj

I am old enough to remember the 70s. And I remember ZAB taking money from the CIA to bring in the drug and gun runners of Afghanistan into Pakistan. I remember Naseerullah Babar overseeing the training of those drug and gun runners, and I remember ZAB launching a military operation in Baluchistan, alienating the province forever.
What I remember of the 80s is economic stability, despite being embroiled in a proxy war in Afghanistan.
What I remember of the 90s is nothing but truck loads of corruption, and a total and intentional destruction of institutions, despite having had civilian rule throughout the decade.
What I remember of Musharraf’s era is essentially a mismanaged martial law, and yes, I hold him accountable for a lot of the ills that plagued Pakistan in the early 2000s. But if you want to give credit to Zardari just because you dont like Musharraf, that is ill-advised. Zardari came into power through an NRO, and specifically went for the presidency, in order to obtain immunity. For you, that is an accomplishment. For me, that is criminal behavior.

Pakistan shows better face in new corruption index - thenews.com.pk

yeah for military dictator it is mismanagement at best.. and for politicians it is only corruption… no wonder IK is now dancing on the tunes…

[hanibal]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

Zardari owes his complete five years rule of loot and plunder to an historically apolitical, in fact, a miraculously apolitical Army general. I'm surprised to see people conveniently overlooking Gen. Kiyani's in giving PPP a free passage despite their antics making them the most unpopular civilian government of all time. Musharraf assured the country, before leaving, that Kiyani is not the type to impose martial law and PPP took full advantage of Army's Chief's lack of political interests and ambition. The situation is different now - the current Army Chief - despite pledging his commitment to protect and safeguard democracy - comes with an apparently imminent and looming stature to instantly intimidate both militants and Nawaz Government.

But I'm glad we have this thread, it's exposed the charade. Now I reckon after this thread, there will be a slight change in certain people's posting trends. It's a common knowledge that martial law and political shahadat worked as oxygen for PPP and fortunately they have none that anymore. Other than pulling the usual ethnic card, there's absolutely nothing PPP can do to have a shot at acting like everyone's favourite victims. Perhaps after this thread, we'll see no more using and abusing of a particular family name, no more crying about rules cut short, no more wailing about deaths that came too soon. No more glorification of rhetoric of 'revenge'. No more commercialisation of grave politics. No more! No more! Oh my dear Lord, no more! As even thy Lord knows that PPP had accomplished what it always wanted - a complete democratic cycle. So no more of the same old.

PPP is now a party that shall be known by Zardari's name and his complete five years of rule. PPP is now a party that was ruled out because of its performance, and it is now a party that will be voted in - if ever by any chance - based on its performance in Sindh. Bhuttos are long dead, and so is Zia. :)

lets be real and call spade a spade, this thread is in appreciation of Zardari and no one including you and your PTI army is able to counter any point stated in opening post... Zardari and his team had their faults and they literally blacked-out Punjab and were cause of closing down many industries in Punjab including ceramics industry, but with these negatives he have positives, which is being discussed in this thread.

I totally understand a certain mindset, which only believes in accusations and negativity and blame game and agitation, as per this mind set anyone being targeted by its leadership cannot have any good in it... and when the same leadership turns to them, then all the bad things in that personality just washes away, Sheikh Rasheed comes to mind as prime example.

Zardari, good or bad, he is Pakistani and he is our EX-President.. if he have done good things for Pakistan, then it must be appreciated, alienating someone and labeling them Ghaddar would lead you to 1971 only... and i am pretty sure because i am not from your school of thought all this is just BS to you.. but again i never invited you or asked you or any of your kind to read or reply here

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

I already said that democracy is good .
The dirtiest group Taliban is loosing day by day
Army is not some thing to be used anywhere but it is effective more in civil control .
Good signs are visible .
I don’t mind who rule , Let the people decide
And a more fair and clear election next time will bring the nation to a much better place

for those who can read Urdu
پاکستان کا دائمی قبض اور انقلابی چورن](http://urdu.dawn.com/news/1005202/24may14-pakisans-eternal-dilemma-naeem-saeed-aq)http://i.dawn.com/thumbnail/2014/05/537f511c527d0.jpg?r=693490249ہمارے نیم حکیموں کو کون سمجھائے کہ بلکتے، سسکتےعوام کو جمہوریت سے بدہضمی ہونے کا خوف دلانا چھوڑ دیجئے حضور!

[Captain1]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

Hajj and Rental Power anyone?

[Silaaj]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

@Captain1

Hajj and Rental Power anyone?

After these scandals, Zardari went clean for a whole year. That technically makes him a saint.

[Jolie]

Re: Zardari - 2008 -2013

lets be real and call spade a spade, this thread is in appreciation of Zardari and no one including you and your PTI army is able to counter any point stated in opening post... Zardari and his team had their faults and they literally blacked-out Punjab and were cause of closing down many industries in Punjab including ceramics industry, but with these negatives he have positives, which is being discussed in this thread.

I totally understand a certain mindset, which only believes in accusations and negativity and blame game and agitation, as per this mind set anyone being targeted by its leadership cannot have any good in it... and when the same leadership turns to them, then all the bad things in that personality just washes away, Sheikh Rasheed comes to mind as prime example.

Zardari, good or bad, he is Pakistani and he is our EX-President.. if he have done good things for Pakistan, then it must be appreciated, alienating someone and labeling them Ghaddar would lead you to 1971 only... and i am pretty sure because i am not from your school of thought all this is just BS to you.. but again i never invited you or asked you or any of your kind to read or reply here

Hahaha. Oh dear, now I feel awful about being a partycrasher. Well I didn't know you were supposed to wait for invitations and permission before posting in a thread, perhaps rules are slightly different for previously banished members.

Most of your post is nothing but schizophrenic jabbering, if you keep hearing voices in your head that Zardari is ghaddar and what not, and it's your God given duty to defend his honour, then that's your problem, not mine! Find me a post where I have used the word ghaddar for him or else you have guessed it, and all of the above is indeed BS to me.

I couldn't care less about your charity appeal for Zardari. Let's see how many more* Pakistanis *you take digs at to prove how this particular Pakistani deserve some forced respect because you said so. Again, your double standards are not my problem.