crescent and the rest of the naive anti-western pakistanis here, what do you guys have to say about this?
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Don't you know? Those guppies are total fans of suicide bombing and al-quaeda, or they think the two don't really exist. Good luck on winning that argument with folks who don't see sense.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Salam,
Oh JazakAllah for posting this. Again what an analytical and objective article. Too bad you could not spin it properly, for the title of this thread states "Yvonne ridley praises suicide bombings" and then the opening sentence of the article states, "While the killing of innocent people is to be condemned without question".
But thank you again for posting this, excellent brought down of the jordian government and it's propganda against it's own muslim brothers.
She analyzed it with proof, and due justice, sometimes thats hard for people to bite. She is not a religious scholar, but she sure has the objectivity in her articles, which the world needs to understand, ofcourse those who seek to understand.
And one last thing hazarah, Sorry if its a bother, but if you wish to have a discussion, you may want to refrain from false accusations as some people on the board have taken up as their slogan due to denial of the truth. You claim others are naive, when Yvonne presented objective facts, condemned the act, but took a background historical as well as a contemporary look at it.
And you, have not even posted a source?
Some justice is due there.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
You think a majority of the world, non-muslims included, support terrorism?
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
I don't even support terrorism. But that's not what you said up there. you said the opinion you have is shared by 99% of the world. I THINK NOT!
Which is why you should keep from making such claims because out of excitement you may say something that u cannot back-up or prove.
PS: I haven't come across a single individual who supports suicide bombing/terrorism. To question is not to be 'either With Us or Against Us, there IS the sensible middle which looks at both sides'
Thanks
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Salam
First you have to define terrorism, your concept of it, and the context you are using that word in.
Secondly, the world may have the different Idea.
The problem today is, that we tend to think we know what people thousands of miles away from us are going through, and how they think. Sitting in our comfy homes, we pass judgements about how they think.
Its ridiculous.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
My anti-terrorist opinion? Yes, of course, that is shared by an overwhelming majority of the world. How many people in the world? And how many crazy men hiding in the mounains and villages of NWFP, Balochistan, and Afghanistan propelling and training suicide bombers, and the general "anti-west" Jihad? Do the math.
Okay fine. Throw in about 5-10 more ardent Taliban sympathizers from GS. You're still no beating anything in the 90th percentile range.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
You're fairly judgemental on who YOU think is a taliban sympathizer....
I'm done. I've made my point.
No one here supports terrorism, and if you know of someone then you ought to take it up with that individual. You couldn't name one person with proof that he/she supports Terrorism, unless ofcourse you know that individual personally, in which case What're you doing associating with such people?
Go on prove me wrong, please. :D
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
My anti-terrorist opinion? Yes, of course, that is shared by an overwhelming majority of the world. How many people in the world? And how many crazy men hiding in the mounains and villages of NWFP, Balochistan, and Afghanistan propelling and training suicide bombers, and the general "anti-west" Jihad? Do the math.
Okay fine. Throw in about 5-10 more ardent Taliban sympathizers from GS. You're still no beating anything in the 90th percentile range.
Salam,
thank you for depicting the sad and narrow minded view of the world you carry. Pakistan isn't the only country in the world, where oppression exist. 6 billion people can attest to that.
Again, can you give me evidence of the people of Chamakawa sharing your views on terrorism? Thats exactly how ridiculous your math was. I'm sorry.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, its the illusion of knowledge."
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
That's just your opinion, again where is the proof?!
You can talk the talk...but can u walk the walk?
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
crescent and the rest of the naive anti-western pakistanis here, what do you guys have to say about this?
Peace hazara
I see in this article a woman calling a 'terroritst' a 'terrorist' ... Look at the emboldened parts of your article. They are her opinion of Al-Zarqawi and his ilk. Please read below:
While the killing of innocent people is to be condemned without question, there is something rather repugnant about some of those who rush to renounce acts of terrorism.
Here Sister Yvonne is calling the act what it is .... 'terrorism'
They rather remind me of trembling slaves all scuttling forth for the approval of the boss class in the hope of receiving a few crumbs from the big man’s table … oh, if only they knew how pathetic they really are.
I was reminded of such a vision just the other day when family members of Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi renounced the terrorist leader after he claimed responsibility for the November 9 bomb attacks on three Amman hotels that killed 61 people.
Here Sister Yvonne calls him a terrorist leader and says he claimed responsibility of attacks
The extended family of al-Zarqawi, whose real name is Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh, not content with condemning his actions then went one step further - they reiterated their strong allegiance to Jordan’s King Abdullah II in half-page advertisements in the kingdom’s three main newspapers.
I’m not sure of their sudden urge to swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch was prompted by the fact al-Zarqawi had threatened to kill the king in an audiotape released two days earlier.
“A Jordanian doesn’t stab himself with his own spear,” said the statement by 57 members of the al-Khalayleh family, including al-Zarqawi’s brother and cousin. “We sever links with him until doomsday.”
I doubt the statement will be regarded as a serious blow to al-Zarqawi. I know he loves his mum - let’s face it, we all love our mothers but who could really give a flying fig about some great, great aunt or ancient uncle once removed from a half cousin’s wife’s mother? OK, so he will no longer enjoy the protection of the tribe … well that’s not going to be a big deal either because they don’t sound like the sort of tribe which would head off to help him in Iraq.
I mean he is hardly likely to bump into his cousins in downtown Fallujah or Ramadi to repel the foreign invaders and occupiers (that’s the Americans and Brits to you and me).
The newspaper adverts droned on: “As we pledge to maintain homage to your throne and to our precious Jordan … we denounce in the clearest terms all the terrorist actions claimed by the so-called Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh, who calls himself Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. We announce, and all the people are our witnesses, that we - the sons of the al-Khalayleh tribe - are innocent of him and all that emanates from him, whether action, assertion or decision.”
The statement said anyone who carried out such violence in the kingdom does not enjoy its protection.
The al-Khalayleh tribe is a branch of the Bani Hassan, one of the area’s largest and most prominent Bedouin tribes, which help form the bedrock of support for the royal family’s Hashemite dynasty.
Relatives hold senior posts in the army and other government departments. Obviously they are keen to maintain that tradition.
Look, every family has its black sheep or that mad little aunt in the attic, but most of us just keep our own counsel.
Sister Yvonne calls him a 'black sheep' and 'that mad little aunt in the attic
However, this decision by al-Zarqawi’s clan is a cowardly move. I mean who is benefiting from these newspaper adverts?
Several days before the adverts appeared, dozens of men from the al-Khalayleh tribe held a rally to denounce al-Zarqawi. “If my son was a terrorist, I wouldn’t hesitate to kill him,” said distant relative Mousa al-Khalayleh during Friday’s rally, claiming he spoke on behalf of the tribe. “This is the slogan raised by the tribe as of this moment.” Hmm, I wonder if Mousa would be that vocal if he was sitting in the company of al-Zarqawi.
This is not the first time the extended family has publicly washed its dirty linen. There was a similar message sent last year by some members of al-Zarqawi’s clan to Abdullah. That message, which contained fewer signatories, severed links with the terrorist for claiming a failed plot in April 2004 that targeted the Amman headquarters of Jordan’s intelligence agency, the prime minister’s office and the US Embassy.
Sister Yvonne affirms he is a terrorist
Officials have said thousands of people would have been killed had the attacks been carried out.
And how are the Jordanian royals reacting to this attack and threat? Well I suspect they are the real family which is quaking with fear and were so intimidated that they felt bound to ‘ask’ al-Zaqarwi’s family to renounce his actions.
After the hotel explosions we had Queen Noor of Jordan, looking more like a Bollywood actress than a queen, delivering a little lecture on Islam to the effect that she and the Jordanian monarchy love Islam while the “terrorists” hate Islam.
What Queen Noor failed to explain on her CNN broadcast was that the three hotels, Hyatt, Days Inn and Radisson, are all US-owned and are seen as dens of iniquity by Jordan’s reserved Muslim community.
Western TV viewers were also treated to images of “demonstrators” in Amman, waving Jordanian flags, condemning the assailants and telling Zarqawi to “burn in hell.” What I can now tell you is that according to my man in the local Amman souk these demonstrators were Jordanian troops out of uniform as well as government lackeys. Their numbers were swollen with Christian and Muslim bedouins, all funded by the government … no doubt courtesy of the boys from Virginia (CIA).
Few Jordanians would be seen dead carrying those tiny little flags which had been mass produced in a nearby factory only hours earlier.
Of course the Jordanian media - not the sharpest tools in the box - failed to ask any of the relevant questions.
I would want to know, for instance who paid for the half page adverts taken out in the country’s top three newspapers? I would want to know who PAID for the ’spontaneous’ demonstrations? Why did the security services - naturally a wee bit edgy after the bombings - allow such a demonstration to take place?
King Abdullah’s name would be near each answer, I reckon. Naturally jumpy, I bet he panicked and, realising that he’s no longer immortal, tried to put on a show to the world that he’s really loved and adored by his people.
So for two days we were treated to a motley crew of around 1000 marching and protesting up and down the streets. I’m sorry Abdullah, I wasn’t convinced.
*That isn’t to say I wasn’t upset by the images which came blasting out of my TV. I mean we can not simply shrug our shoulders at the deaths of 61 people. But let’s have a closer look at those who perished: *
Sister Yvonne here says that she was upset at the images of death ... she is condemning the act
Five of those who died were Iraqis who were working closely with America? in other words, collaborators. One Saudi, Indonesian and three Chinese intelligence officers were also wiped out. Shame, but those who live by the sword …..?
And then there was the wedding party. OK, so the guests were part of Jordan’s upper echelons of society, others had flown in from America and were known for their close ties to the monarchy. But that still doesn’t mean they should be punished for their status in life.
Sister Yvonne affirms punishment should not be given due to mererly high status ... what is she getting at?
**Interesting though, that the bombers chose the bars serving alcohol for their martyrdom operations in two of the hotels. **Now while we know alcohol is strictly haram, it’s an Islamic ruling which the King of Jordan chooses to openly ignore, and in a Muslim country.
Sister Yvonne quote on quote calls it 'their martyrdom operations' not her own, she is not saying here that it is her version of martyrdom. However, she is indeed pointing to the fact that alcohol is being sold openly in Jordan and this links back to her earlier statement about 'loving Islam'.
King Abdullah is a chip off the old block, really. Well they say the apple does not fall far from the tree. You see he is protected by his CIA bosses and looked after by Mossad. Daddy Hussain, was also a CIA stooge who was even prepared to openly support Israel at a time when the secular Arab regimes were supposedly united against Israel. Abdullah’s grandfather too betrayed the Palestinians which also explains why he was killed by a Palestinian.
The late King Hussain slaughtered thousands of Palestinians during the notorious days of Black September. So bad was his retribution that Palestinians preferred to suffer the self-humiliation of seeking refuge in Israel than remain at the mercy of King Hussain.
And let’s not forget it was King Hussain who handed over Jerusalem after pretending to put up a resistance.
Like his son, he couldn’t care less what his own people think. Despite their overwhelming opposition to the illegal war in Iraq, the wishes of the Jordanian people were ignored - so much for democracy in the Middle East.
This is one of the most backward states in the whole region when it comes to democracy.
The regime routinely tortures its subjects - and anyone else’s come to that. There’s almost a shuttle service running to Jordan where obliging grunts from Jordan’s intelligence services happily torture ‘clients’ sent to them by Uncle Sam.
In fact, to be brutally frank, Jordan provides backing, support and intelligence to the American military which is carrying out genocide in neighbouring Iraq. Thousands of residents have been wiped out in the cities of Tal Afar, Qaim, Karabila, Haditha and Husayba, as they had done earlier with Falluja. Masjids, schools and hospitals have been trashed, but not one peep of criticism comes out of Jordan or its mealy-mouthed media.
*How on earth can these malignant rulers and corrupt journalists sleep at night? Hmm, I suppose when you have no backbone or conscience then it doesn’t matter how lumpy the mattress is. *
Linguistic Wizardry!
As I said earlier in this column, it is very hard to justify the deaths of innocents. But you know, I wonder if you see that attack on the Jordanian hotels in a different light now?
But let’s get back to the original theme of this column - black sheep and family honor. I think I’d rather put up with a brother like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi any day than have a traitor or sell-out for a father, son or grandfather.
*So to summarise ...
Yvonne does not view al-Zarqawi as a noble of nobles from the Muslims. Rather she sees him as a reactionary a rather dangerous one, spawned from the fact that there is a hypocrtical regime in place in that region. She points to the fact that those who this reactionary had killed were people near alcohol serving bars and compares or contextualises this attrocity to those of the regime related one where they helped the selling out of Jerusalem and Palestine as a whole to the Zionists.
Her main stab is that even though someone is doing something wrong, what is his intention? And even though intentions should not be the only things we 'go by' we should also look at context and furthermore we should not fear anyone other than Allah (SWT). Rather if we disagree with both al-Zarqawi and the Kingdom of Jordan then we should say so, not cower, but then she also indicates that the over adulation of the monachy may be a spin from the media anyway.*
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
That's just your opinion, again where is the proof?!
You can talk the talk...but can u walk the walk?
I don't need to do any sort of walk. You've posted your comments quite clearly, as I have mine. You wanna keep getting bad and acting like a bad boy, then go ahead. This response of yours is just flat out silly. Drink some lassi, think about how you really and truly feel abou terrorism and ask yourself the deep question of "Am I sympathizing with it, and maybe, just maybe, is that adding to the problem"?
I'm telling you, its a fabulous soul searching excercise for you. You might surprise yourself.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Psyah, that's fine, but its clear that she sides with people involved in terrorism. Therefore, you can't be on both sides of the fence at once.
i.e. She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
I don't need to do any sort of walk. You've posted your comments quite clearly, as I have mine. You wanna keep getting bad and acting like a bad boy, then go ahead. This response of yours is just flat out silly. Drink some lassi, think about how you really and truly feel abou terrorism and ask yourself the deep question of "Am I sympathizing with it, and maybe, just maybe, is that adding to the problem"?
I'm telling you, its a fabulous soul searching excercise for you. You might surprise yourself.
"Right".
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Great. Let me know how your self-help therapy goes.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Psyah, that's fine, but its clear that she sides with people involved in terrorism. Therefore, you can't be on both sides of the fence at once.
i.e. She doesn't know what she's talking about.
Peace PyariCgudia
Her main stab is that even though someone is doing something wrong, what is his intention?
And even though intentions should not be the only things we 'go by' we should also look at context and furthermore we should not fear anyone other than Allah (SWT).
Rather if we disagree with both al-Zarqawi and the Kingdom of Jordan then we should say so, not cower, but then she also indicates that the over adulation of the monachy may be a spin from the media anyway.
Sister PyariCgudia .... Yvonne Ridley has taken a side, it is not al-Zarqawi nor is it King Hussian ... it is Islam and Justice ... The third and obviously invisible to some option !!!!!
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Great. Let me know how your self-help therapy goes.
Let me know when you decide to grow up and can carry a constructive conversation with some substance to it, rather than sound silly and make baseless assumptions of others that you think are true. Your way is not the only true way. You can just as well be wrong.
I asked you to prove and backup what you say, which is the norm when you're accusing someone. Yet you resort to petty talk and personal attacks. How highly of you.
Thank you for proving me right.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
oh good god. You guys are very sick. tum logon ko sharam nahi ati? are yall that full of bitterness and insecurity that maknig sick jokes abt terrorism make you feel better?
Peace Sister Sara516
There is no joke on this thread ... there is only reflexive reasoning ... shining the mirror back ... the remarks that you refer to were in response to this statement ...
"Crescent is a documentted Taliban supporter, and we all know the Taliban's role in terrorism...i.e. they're one of its leaders."
Is this fair sister? Is this not a personal attack? It was the best way he or I could have responded ... most people would curse but notice he did not.
Re: yvonne Ridley praises suicide bombings and al-Qaeda
Salam All,
I dont mind, ive dealt with it in the past, May Allah guide us all.
I think i've made my points in this thread clear...
Its times like these when I remember the famous incident of our beloved Rasool saw.
He was standing, warning people in the markets of Makkah, yelling at the top of his lungs. 99% were against him, he alone that 1% was standing there conveying the message. Non stop.
Behind him..
was his uncle. Bashing him, yelling over him that "this man here is a traitor, a liar, and will bring harm to our society, do not listen to him!" (This is watered down version, but the arabic version has alot of direct nastiness to it.)
In essence, he was calling him a terrorist.
but our beloved Prophet pbuh kept going, kept conveying, people threw rocks, he kept going, people spat him, he kept going, people brought him to his knees, but he kept going.
"If you dont stand up for the truth, then you are in the wrong religion, because this religion is all about standing up for the truth! And if you dont, then you are a coward. The greatest Shaheed is he, who stands up with the truth, in the face of injustice."
-Sh. Hamza Yusuf