Your humble Opinion
Agreed khatti
Re: Your humble Opinion
So any groom coming from Pakistan - in that marriage there is an implicit understanding that the girl will pay for everything ?
Huh? Is that a blanket statement for any groom from Pakistan. Not only was I born on the wrong continent, I was apparently born the wrong gender.
Regardless of where the guy comes from, he provides. If he is still in his education, he either should have the sense to wait and take a wife once he is financially ready or he take a wife and understand his family will be helping him support the couple until his exams are done.
Any scenario where the girl agrees to fully financially support a guy - huge mistake. And even if she does plain and simple, this guy has extra cash he can dip into. "Getting used to be paid for" is no excuse, not when he has 10K sitting there.
Can't believe the kind of excuses we are now making to create a new class of doormats.
Re: Your humble Opinion
Regardless of where the guy comes from, he provides. If he is still in his education, he either*** should have the sense to wait and take a wife once he is financially ready ***or he take a wife and understand his family will be helping him support the couple until his exams are done.
You have hit the nail on the head with the highlighted portion. Unfortunately, that is the crux of the problem: some men do not have the sense to wait until they are financially ready to get married. What I find truly mind boggling, though, is how acceptable this is becoming.
However, I disagree with this part:
or he take a wife and understand his family will be helping him support the couple until his exams are done.
Quite frankly, if a person cannot support themselves financially (and thus, is unable to support a family), they have no business getting married. Period.
Re: Your humble Opinion
No PCG, that is not a blanket statement about grooms from Pakistan. It’s about this situation in this thread based on the details OP has given us. In fact, go back to your own thread about importing grooms, I believe I have you 3 examples that I personally know of where the groom came from Pakistan and there are no issues at all with him the sole financial support of the family 
Go back and read my post again carefully. We’re both essentially saying the same thing. Whether this wife pays for her husbands exam or not is kind of irrelevant at this point because by the limited information provided to us, it sounds like they have other issues in the marriage than who pays for what. A husband and wife who have mutual respect, a shared vision for the marriage and trust in one another don’t count their pennies this way. It has nothing to do with what continent that came from or what their gender is
Re: Your humble Opinion
The whole situation is kind of sad really.
Initially, my hunch was that maybe it's OK if your friend pays $750-$1000 towards her husband's exam fees because if he passes that exam and gets the professional certification, the living standard of both the husband and wife will improve and he won't be hoarding all the extra money. But then I read post #9 that your friend is already footing the bills for utilities, rent and just about everything. So, it's probably a good idea for her to securely hold on to her savings, and insist that he pays for the review course and the exam himself. He shouldn't be taking his wife for granted. It's about time the husband became more responsible and tried to be a little more self-sufficient instead of just relying on his wife. Plus, he will be more motivated to give the exam his best shot if he directly incurs the cost (i.e. depletion of his savings) of repeated failures.
Re: Your humble Opinion
Regardless of where the guy comes from, he provides. If he is still in his education, he either should have the sense to wait and take a wife once he is financially ready or he take a wife and understand his family will be helping him support the couple until his exams are done.
Quite frankly, if a person cannot support themselves financially (and thus, is unable to support a family), they have no business getting married. Period.
You make marriage sound like a business deal. A guy is not a money making machine (just like a girl is not a maid or cook).
Transitioning from Pakistan to any of the developed countries is challenging, especially for someone who is stepping out of Pakistan for the first time and his dad is not a landlord or politician with loads of easy money to support him financially.
In a sponsorship arrangement, it is assumed that initially the girl and/or her family will help the guy settle in and for the short-term (while he is unemployed and either studying or looking for a suitable job), the girl's side will bear the major living expenses. The guy may or may not take a part-time job to cover some of the expenses (that would depend on how long his study period is). Of course, if the guy comes from a rich family jo Pakistan main baith ke dollars main rent aur tuition fees de sakte hain, that's great for the girl! They got lucky! But most people can’t afford that. When you take someone into your family, it is assumed you'll treat them like your own.
I know of many cases where the girls here sponsored Pakistani guys from Pakistan/Dubai/UK. Initially, the couple stayed in the girl's parents' home. After a few months/years, the couple moved to their own place, the guy took a part time job and enrolled into a study program to upgrade his degree, and the girl was either working full time and covering majority of house bills, or she was not working / got pregnant / and in turn forcing the husband to take a full time crappy job and not have time to study. In the long-run, the couples who took the time to help the guy get a professional job (or business set up) were better off than those who pushed him to start being the breadwinner from day one.
Of course, these are all couples who are happily married and willing to support each other to reach common goals. And in all these cases, the guy was not a freeloader but genuinely making an effort to further his career so there were no grudges or unwillingness to bear his expenses for the short term.
I am not disagreeing with you that Islamically and culturally, the guy should be the provider. But I think in this specific situation (and with limited info to go on), this is a short-term set up and sounds like there may be other issues.
PCG, I don’t think the guy is “still in his education”. This guy is studying for transition exams. Sounds like he is in a professional field (i.e. well-educated from back home but needs to do transition exams to qualify to practice here).
There is simply not enough info to figure out what's causing the fights.
But I do wonder if the girl doesn't want to pay because there are problems in the marriage, or if there are problems in this marriage because of the whole tera-mera attitude.
Re: Your humble Opinion
There isn't enough info to give proper advice on this topic.
Its possible he really is struggling and holding onto his savings because they're not a lot to begin with. He might be asking her because she's more secure financially.
The thing that bothers me is...he's controlling her finances. If he's not being good to her and thinking its right to just push his wife around because he's the man - that won't work too well for him in the long run.
Re: Your humble Opinion
So any groom coming from Pakistan - in that marriage there is an implicit understanding that the girl will pay for everything ?
Huh? Is that a blanket statement for any groom from Pakistan. Not only was I born on the wrong continent, I was apparently born the wrong gender.
Regardless of where the guy comes from, he provides. If he is still in his education, he either should have the sense to wait and take a wife once he is financially ready or he take a wife and understand his family will be helping him support the couple until his exams are done.
Any scenario where the girl agrees to fully financially support a guy - huge mistake. And even if she does plain and simple, this guy has extra cash he can dip into. "Getting used to be paid for" is no excuse, not when he has 10K sitting there.
Can't believe the kind of excuses we are now making to create a new class of doormats.
OK, so just fyi, anybody coming from pakistan, will not be able to support you. you will support him. The question is if it will be for how long.
case inpoint, a doctor in pak probably makes $1000 permonth? Depending where u live, that wont even cover the rent. Anyone goes to a new country is slow in everysence. Imagen if you moved from texas to NY. Don't you think it would take you a month or two to get adjusted?
So now take someone from PAKISTAN, and bring them here, your looking at about a 6 month period of adjustment.
Anyway my point is you will have to support him. Just don't be niaeve and say im gonna take him on vacations and buy him high end clothing. do the minimum so he thinks that he has to find work as well. if you show like hey i have tons of money to pay for everything. They guy is gonna try to save his money, remember $500 here is not as much as $500 there. Its like a little kid, if you spoil it, its gonna be bad. If you treat it the way you want it to act from the beginning, your fine.
Re: Your humble Opinion
You make marriage sound like a business deal. A guy is not a money making machine
I did not imply that a guy is a moneymaking machine. I stated that if a person (person as in male or female) cannot support themselves financially, honestly, they are not ready for marriage and should not even be contemplating it. The reason I used the word "person" and not "guy" is that I believe that this applies to both men and women. If a couple is being supported by their families (either set) while “getting settled,” what will they do if one of the parents falls seriously ill, has an accident, loses their job or they are faced with some other catastrophe that strains the family’s finances? My comment was in reference to PCG’s suggestion that if a guy cannot support himself because he is still studying, his family should support the couple.
I would also like to point out that earlier generations of immigrants often migrated abroad with no support system in place (as in, no one to support them while they were “getting settled”) and managed to do quite well for themselves. I see no reason why a person (such as the gentleman in the OP's post) cannot study AND work. Does our generation lack our parent' work ethic? A personal example of this is my own parents. When my parents immigrated (or rather fled, no thanks to the Soviet occupation) to Denmark in the early eighties, my parents went from having decent, skilled jobs in our country (my father ran his own business and my mother was a professor) to having to work menial jobs in Denmark to help support the household. They worked menial jobs AND went to evening classes to learn Danish and later study for the exams to obtain equivalency for their education in Denmark. They never asked either of their families for a single pound (or rather, a single kroner) or asked their families to support them, using the excuse “we’re still getting settled” or “well, we just got here.” Eventually they did quite well for themselves and moved to the UK and started a business here, which, due to their hard work, has been quite successful.
Many of my friends’ parents had similar experiences. They migrated here with little or nothing and worked hard to become successful. I doubt they would have been comfortable with their in-laws supporting them for any length of time. One of my friend’s parents even stated that this trend of getting married before one can support oneself is new and that this was uncommon in his generation. In fact, he stated that rather than asking their families for money, they SENT money TO their families, despite having to struggle here. He stated something to the effect of “I came here from Pakistan with less than a high school education and I worked and I studied at night and helped my wife do the same. I struggled but I managed to provide for my family and give them a decent life without anyone’s help. Are young guys these days not capable of doing that?” Based on the number of stories similar to the OP’s, I guess not.
Re: Your humble Opinion
By the sounds of it, OP's friend's husband seems to be giving medical exams.
Here is the problem facing newbie docs which girls now really need to quit daydreaming about bling dresses and diamonds and really understand.
In the US, past 5-10 yrs of planning has increased # of American medical school seats. In my old state alone, 4 new med schools each with avg 100 seats.
US government has not invested in expanding residency spots to accommodate all new med students.
This is critical.
In the past, girls' families imported doctors from Pakistan regularly - they were seen as a secure investment. Boy has MD equiv from Pakistan, done by a younger age, comes here, does residency here, voila in 3-5 yrs he is practicing. Since he is a man, and has no domestic obligations and freedom to move (wife will go anywhere for a 500K salary for husband!) guy trains further --> more bling.
End result: the doctor dawats we are all too familiar with - average dress : HSY Jora costing hundreds of dollars and fashion shows etc.
Now, this is going to be a diminishing reality. The same guy who came over and got a residency spot here because there were x # of seats in residency leftover (previously residency spots exceeded # of American med seats), now will not get residency.
Pakistani grads with average USMLE scores now aren't getting in and you hear stories of people pulling social connections to get a residency interview, except these are board decisions so the interview offer is usually a pleasantry, they are never serious.
Unfortunately in the past year it's gotten so tough that American grads now aren't matching to residency spots.
Girls need to understand that importing a doctor is no longer a viable option, you might be stuck paying his exam costs and he may never get a job in medicine.
Now back to work ethic. With an MBBS from Pakistan, it doesn't qualify you for many jobs in the US, all medical field jobs involve specific training and licensing exams down to a lab tech. So it's not like these guys can get part time jobs easily. They usually end up researching in their spare time to boost the resume and 90% of the time those positions are not paid.
And unless you come from a well known med school in Pakistan, coming to America is a huge risk.
A risk that is now becoming a noose to many American desi women whose families were more interested in marrying a "doctor" instead of a guy who is actually employable.
Re: Your humble Opinion
I did not imply that a guy is a moneymaking machine. I stated that if a person (person as in male or female) cannot support themselves financially, honestly, they are not ready for marriage and should not even be contemplating it. The reason I used the word "person" and not "guy" is that I believe that this applies to both men and women. If a couple is being supported by their families (either set) while “getting settled,” what will they do if one of the parents falls seriously ill, has an accident, loses their job or they are faced with some other catastrophe that strains the family’s finances? My comment was in reference to PCG’s suggestion that if a guy cannot support himself because he is still studying, his family should support the couple.
Right, Mezhgan. But the way I understood your comment was, if the guy in this situation couldn't provide for his wife, he shouldn't have gotten married. The point I'm trying to make is, we don't know his financial situation or his qualifications, but I am guessing if the couple was back home, the guy would very well be able to provide for the family. In this situation, the circumstances are such that there is an adjustment period, and patience and teamwork is required on their part to make their marriage work.
I didn't read all the responses in this thread but I generally dislike any crude responses (in this thread or others) like:
- Girl shouldn't have married him if she wasn't willing to support him
- Guy shouldn't have gotten married if he wasn't able to support the family
- Girl should consider giving divorce because there seem to be serious issues
People should think before making a comment. First step is communication. Shaadi ke shuru main, kise problems nahi aatin? Ek tu pehle se the couple is having a tough time, ooper se it doesn't help when others put doubt in your mind. The girl married him and brought him here ... kuch dekh ke hi rishta kya hoga na?
I agree with you that our parents' generation had a much higher work ethic than our generation does. They were also much more tolerant and willing to make things work.
Re: Your humble Opinion
Now back to work ethic. With an MBBS from Pakistan, it doesn't qualify you for many jobs in the US, all medical field jobs involve specific training and licensing exams down to a lab tech.
I understand that qualifications from abroad don't qualify you for jobs in the US/UK/wherever in your exact field. However, what is stopping such individuals from getting other jobs in other field in the meantime? Can they not get jobs or even part-time jobs doing other things or are they above that?
As far as jobs in the medical field all requiring training, in my experience, this is not true. When I was still studying, I worked as a research assistant for a professor at my uni and later as a lecturer's assistant. While they were not dream jobs, they provided a bit of extra money and resume experience, as well as, recommendations and future connections.
Re: Your humble Opinion
By the sounds of it, OP's friend's husband seems to be giving medical exams.
Here is the problem facing newbie docs which girls now really need to quit daydreaming about bling dresses and diamonds and really understand.
In the US, past 5-10 yrs of planning has increased # of American medical school seats. In my old state alone, 4 new med schools each with avg 100 seats.
US government has not invested in expanding residency spots to accommodate all new med students.
This is critical.
In the past, girls' families imported doctors from Pakistan regularly - they were seen as a secure investment. Boy has MD equiv from Pakistan, done by a younger age, comes here, does residency here, voila in 3-5 yrs he is practicing. Since he is a man, and has no domestic obligations and freedom to move (wife will go anywhere for a 500K salary for husband!) guy trains further --> more bling.
End result: the doctor dawats we are all too familiar with - average dress : HSY Jora costing hundreds of dollars and fashion shows etc.
Now, this is going to be a diminishing reality. The same guy who came over and got a residency spot here because there were x # of seats in residency leftover (previously residency spots exceeded # of American med seats), now will not get residency.
Pakistani grads with average USMLE scores now aren't getting in and you hear stories of people pulling social connections to get a residency interview, except these are board decisions so the interview offer is usually a pleasantry, they are never serious.
Unfortunately in the past year it's gotten so tough that American grads now aren't matching to residency spots.
Girls need to understand that importing a doctor is no longer a viable option, you might be stuck paying his exam costs and he may never get a job in medicine.
Now back to work ethic. With an MBBS from Pakistan, it doesn't qualify you for many jobs in the US, all medical field jobs involve specific training and licensing exams down to a lab tech. So it's not like these guys can get part time jobs easily. They usually end up researching in their spare time to boost the resume and 90% of the time those positions are not paid.
And unless you come from a well known med school in Pakistan, coming to America is a huge risk.
A risk that is now becoming a noose to many American desi women whose families were more interested in marrying a "doctor" instead of a guy who is actually employable.
they guy is becoming an actuary, its like a cpa+cfa type thing.
Re: Your humble Opinion
An actuary?? Seriously? Yes he can get any part time job to support. Maybe not with exam study time but business folks - they can get jobs.
Research assistant jobs and TA jobs usually involve being enrolled in a university as a student.
Your humble Opinion
Seriously she has an actuary for a husband and she's not willing to help the kid out to push him to do better by supporting him a little longer?!? Were talking about a couple who JUST got married. In less than a year she is fed up with him? Actuaries are so in demand right now and have some of the highest earning potential here. It's such a lucrative field! This girl is cray cray. Shows exactly that there are deeper issues because when my husband was deciding to go back to school, I didn't turn around and accuse him of free loading. Thats crazy! We are trying to better our lives together. This is a marriage you make sacrifices and decisions together especially when your younger and you can. She must have known what he was going to have to do in order to put himself in a stable career.
I moved from darn cold Canada up to the states and it took me MONTHS to adjust in one western country to another! On top of that I couldn't even visit back home because I had immigration issues and it made my mental state worse. I couldn't work or do much till my paperwork was sorted and it was the hardest time of my life. Adjusting in a new family with none of yours own around, adjusting to a new place and basically new culture. The mindsets and culture are pretty different from one place to another. Plus my husband had to adjust as well, he all of a sudden had another thing on his plate to look after and it was hard for him to adjust in a new marriage because even his life drastically changed. It's not easy people. School was different for me too when I finally started going because all of a sudden everything was in context to American history and American culture and politics which I honestly did not know much about. I kept going back to my Canadian case studies and examples and it wasn't easy in the first semester. I'm sure this girl is working really hard. But I'm surprised that in less than a year she is complaining about this stuff knowing her man may need more time to adjust from the beginning. Shes also struggling with the responsibility it seems and almost hostile that she has to be in this position even if it is temporary. Loving spouses usually are more tolerant and willing to give the situation time to hash itself out. Willing to work together and on top of that they usually don't go around telling other people their financial situation because it makes their SO look bad to their friends and family. People who are conscious of this and loving towards their spouse are more careful about putting that stuff out there. Like someone said there's so much to this case we don't know.
Such docs who are not getting residencies need to broaden their career options. Options range from training as a surgical assistant, to medical practice mgmt, jobs with pharma companies, hospital mgmt, health insurance companies. It would require some additional training but the opportunities are there. Seen a number of people in the all or nothing situation for years just hoping to make it this year to a match
Re: Your humble Opinion
The match is rough these days. Really sad seeing people more qualified than doctors in the past not making it because the government will shove money into the endless pit called obamacare but they won't make more docs.
What the heck, an NP with no med school or residency training and poor college scores can do the same
Re: Your humble Opinion
Yes but S and S : did you pay for his schooling when he had adequate personal funds to pay himself plus take on all the household expenses? Was your husband just paying for a haircut?
I don't think the question is about little sacrifices and big sacrifices to help a spouse thru school.
It's about - should you be in a marriage with a husband who has 10k in his account and all he pays is his haircut costs?
Re: Your humble Opinion
The match is rough these days. Really sad seeing people more qualified than doctors in the past not making it because the government will shove money into the endless pit called obamacare but they won't make more docs.
What the heck, an NP with no med school or residency training and poor college scores can do the same
govt does not control how many docs there are and how many residencies to give. with residents being abused working 80 hour weeks, sure you can grow number of residents by 150% if not 200%, but residencies and number of doctors is kept low. I will let you look into where those decisions are made.
Re: Your humble Opinion
Seriously she has an actuary for a husband and she's not willing to help the kid out to push him to do better by supporting him a little longer?!? Were talking about a couple who JUST got married. In less than a year she is fed up with him? Actuaries are so in demand right now and have some of the highest earning potential here. It's such a lucrative field! .
Actuaries with the right focus are in demand.
but the lucrative roles go to the best of the best.
someone who cant pass basic certification exams would have to try to convince someone real hard that he is among the best of the best.
I am not an actuary...but even I passed actuary certification exams in my first try, while working fulltime. I was running projects in that space and just having that exam passed gave some crediblity, so was asked to study for it and take it...still have the certificate collecting dust in some drawer.