Why doesn't she ask him to pay it and if this time he passes this exam they agree to split it after? I get this guy should be more responsible but I have to disagree with a lot of people here. If this girl married somebody who wasn't necessarily educated or brought up in her home country then by even signing papers to consent for his immigration she takes on the responsibility to be the provider as his sponsor for even bringing him over.
Op, for you to be advising your friend about anything in her marriage, quite frankly has no grounds and your friend shouldn't even be listening to you. Not because your wrong but because you basically have no right to be giving her advice about a situation you may not fully understand. This is THEIR marriage, how they chose to split their finances is on their accord. Although I agree with you that it seems absurd for the wife to be basically having to pay for a deadbeat husband but we don't really know that. Based on your judgement, he's not a "nice" husband because he tries to control her finances BUT this is still a marriage in which this girl seems to have signed up for. If it was going to take time for this guy to get setup in another country, for better or for worse she has still chosen to be with him right? Anyone bringing anyone over from a different country is not easy. We don't know anything else about their marriage or external factors affecting them.
There needs to be some compromise here. Don't get me wrong, I don't think she should have to pay either however this case seems to be different. Just because he tries to control her finances doesn't him make a bad husband, more of just an annoying one for that sole reason. There could be a 1000 reasons as to why and sometimes marriages aren't so black and white.
Personally, they should make a compromise and have him pay for it and if he passes she agrees to split it with him after. She needs results, I get that. He needs to buckle up and work harder. But how do we know he didn't in the first place? Usually people even trying for professional exams have some pre reqs on their belt to have gotten to that point but I imagine it would be difficult for anyone not raised or educated in the west to do well right off the bat. Even parents would stop funding free loading kids after a certain point but most give it a chance and sometimes they don't make it on the first try. I don't know very many parents who have agreed to pay for their kids education costs would give up so easily. Others work their butt off to put themselves through school and not always succeed right away so Im just saying it doesn't matter about how is being payed, that doesn't always play a factor in someone doing well or not. I'm just saying there could be a bunch of reasons why this guy didn't make it and I'm surprised that as his wife she seems to have lost faith in him so quickly but how do we even know how or why. It's just silly to me that you would give your friend any kind of advice. Your a third person and there's always two sides to a story. Marriages take ALOT more work and usually that means supporting your spouse even in their lowest of times. Personally, she should split it after he passes or have him agree to pay her back a certain amount if he still doesn't.
Is he even ready to retake these exams? Who knows and if he's not then I still feel she has a part to play in helping him succeed because yes she did chose to marry somebody who may have been educated in a country of a completely different standard from the one they are living in now. I don't think her putting food on the table constitutes as her eternal sacrifice for this marriage, SHE sponsored this guy to bring him to live her in her country by the sounds of it not the other way around. People who have the courage to do so move mountains to follow their dreams and don't always succeed the first time because things are never that black and white.
Sorry for being repetitive, just saying there's always more to consider, this is way to one sided.
Well only your friend can tell how sincere he looks towards the exam. May be she should talk to him nicely and tell him that i will pay for ur exam or will pay half of it but this time do ur entire best because money is not grown on trees, it comes from hard work and you urself know it very well since you work. And also if you fail this time i wont be able to pay for ur third attempt....and finally saying something like ppl do fail nothing bad. Just do ur best this time and i know inshallah u will succeed.
Why doesn't she ask him to pay it and if this time he passes this exam they agree to split it after? I get this guy should be more responsible but I have to disagree with a lot of people here. If this girl married somebody who wasn't necessarily educated or brought up in her home country then by even signing papers to consent for his immigration she takes on the responsibility to be the provider as his sponsor for even bringing him over.
Op, for you to be advising your friend about anything in her marriage, quite frankly has no grounds and your friend shouldn't even be listening to you. Not because your wrong but because you basically have no right to be giving her advice about a situation you may not fully understand. This is THEIR marriage, how they chose to split their finances is on their accord. Although I agree with you that it seems absurd for the wife to be basically having to pay for a deadbeat husband but we don't really know that. Based on your judgement, he's not a "nice" husband because he tries to control her finances BUT this is still a marriage in which this girl seems to have signed up for. If it was going to take time for this guy to get setup in another country, for better or for worse she has still chosen to be with him right? Anyone bringing anyone over from a different country is not easy. We don't know anything else about their marriage or external factors affecting them.
There needs to be some compromise here. Don't get me wrong, I don't think she should have to pay either however this case seems to be different. Just because he tries to control her finances doesn't him make a bad husband, more of just an annoying one for that sole reason. There could be a 1000 reasons as to why and sometimes marriages aren't so black and white.
Personally, they should make a compromise and have him pay for it and if he passes she agrees to split it with him after. She needs results, I get that. He needs to buckle up and work harder. But how do we know he didn't in the first place? Usually people even trying for professional exams have some pre reqs on their belt to have gotten to that point but I imagine it would be difficult for anyone not raised or educated in the west to do well right off the bat. Even parents would stop funding free loading kids after a certain point but most give it a chance and sometimes they don't make it on the first try. I don't know very many parents who have agreed to pay for their kids education costs would give up so easily. Others work their butt off to put themselves through school and not always succeed right away so Im just saying it doesn't matter about how is being payed, that doesn't always play a factor in someone doing well or not. I'm just saying there could be a bunch of reasons why this guy didn't make it and I'm surprised that as his wife she seems to have lost faith in him so quickly but how do we even know how or why. It's just silly to me that you would give your friend any kind of advice. Your a third person and there's always two sides to a story. Marriages take ALOT more work and usually that means supporting your spouse even in their lowest of times. Personally, she should split it after he passes or have him agree to pay her back a certain amount if he still doesn't.
Is he even ready to retake these exams? Who knows and if he's not then I still feel she has a part to play in helping him succeed because yes she did chose to marry somebody who may have been educated in a country of a completely different standard from the one they are living in now. I don't think her putting food on the table constitutes as her eternal sacrifice for this marriage, SHE sponsored this guy to bring him to live her in her country by the sounds of it not the other way around. People who have the courage to do so move mountains to follow their dreams and don't always succeed the first time because things are never that black and white.
Sorry for being repetitive, just saying there's always more to consider, this is way to one sided.
she asked me for advise. I wouldn't give anyone advise without them asking for it, unless it was family or something.
Look there is a saying that when u ask for an opinion, you already know what you want to do.
Yikes. These are the stories that scare the crap out of me. What were the conversations before marriage? Did her family emphasize that she was not to be the breadwinner and how the heck is he going to support her ?
This is why I plan on keeping my money separate and have no problem now telling guys that their name will not be on my account nor will I be responsible for all the bills. I'll pay 50% but if he wants to be married he better be footing 50% of the bill himself or he goes back to Pakistan. Most guys don't even talk to me after that - great weed out system.
What was the discussion about finances previous
ofcourse, there were discussions, even in my marrage there were discussions. But I just want to let everyone here know, if you are importing someone here, dont expect them to get a job immediately. It is gonna take them a few months, if not even a year or more. You have to support them during this time.
Additionally, im not trying to scare you or anything, but I remember reading somewhere ur going to pakistan, just remember, that people will be YES MEN there. Because to come here its a pretty great life improvement. And they will think that hey let me give her the answers she wants to hear for now. Your really lucky that the people u meet are honest and are leaving if they dont like your responses.
For the people saying what is this your money my money. You probably have a great marriage, you guys trust eachother, and have common goals. Not everyone is that lucky, and I honestly suggest, that anyone who gets recently married, should never open a joint account with alarge sum of money, I dont care if its a love marriage. Truth is you dont know the person until you live with them.
Maybe it's me - but if a husband asked for money to send back home to his chachi's nani's tayya's adopted son - sure I understand the hesitation.
But to pay for exams or course entry fees that will hopefully help the husband increase his employment opportunities and salary potential - wouldn't that help them as a COUPLE? Who is going to benefit in the long term if he passes his exams and gets a higher paying job - both of them since the increased pay should add to the family pot.
Yes, I get the he has some savings and is working and may attempt to control her finances- but can she not afford to help him - isn't this like an investment in their future that should pay itself off?
But to pay for exams or course entry fees that will hopefully help the husband increase his employment opportunities and salary potential - wouldn't that help them as a COUPLE? Who is going to benefit in the long term if he passes his exams and gets a higher paying job - both of them since the increased pay should add to the family pot.
Yes, I get the he has some savings and is working and may attempt to control her finances- but can she not afford to help him - isn't this like an investment in their future that should pay itself off?
I completely understand your point. But the other side of the coin is that if he has around $10K in savings...more than enough to pay for his exams & prep course, why can't he use that money to pay for it? It sounds like the wife is helping and investing in THEIR future by paying all the bills....I believe OP mentioned wife even paid for husband to travel to some course related to the exam. And according to OP, husband is only using his income/savings whatever to pay for his personal things like haircuts. Wife is already spending her income/savings......why is the husband holding on to his? (ie. OP hasn't mentioned anything about the husband having an actual need to save that money such as maybe for sick/elderly parents that may need it in the immediate future).
P.S. If the husband is holding on to "his" money like this right now....I wouldn't be surprised if the wife feels that perhaps he will do the same even after he passes the exams and starts earning more.
Maybe it's me - but if a husband asked for money to send back home to his chachi's nani's tayya's adopted son - sure I understand the hesitation.
But to pay for exams or course entry fees that will hopefully help the husband increase his employment opportunities and salary potential - wouldn't that help them as a COUPLE? Who is going to benefit in the long term if he passes his exams and gets a higher paying job - both of them since the increased pay should add to the family pot.
Yes, I get the he has some savings and is working and may attempt to control her finances- but can she not afford to help him - isn't this like an investment in their future that should pay itself off?
This would make all sorts of sense if there was a "family pot" to begin with.
From what we are reading there is no such thing.
Agreed Shehrysh. What if its an investment for after. Why not hold on to that money both his and hers and pay cash for everything else so their not burning through their savings for immediate expenses. Maybe that's the thought process. My husband is huge on keeping savings saved unless its some kind of life emergency, there's always another way to come up with cash for immediate expenses. Thinking longterm instead of using the cash outside of what it was intended for. the fact that they both have SOME lind of savings is amazing in my opinion! its soo hard for newlyweds to be in that position. Most people are broke ass when they get married. Not everyone comes with a Jahez and all that jazz. If he's making her take out loans or something to come up with the cash that's completely different. This is for education. Just because she is supporting him and putting food on the table, how do we know she is better with their money than he is. He may not be earning yet but maybe his financial organization is better than hers. They probably have different visions and clearly different priorities. Maybe hes hoping to use that money for a down payment, starting a business or a practice and keeping it for when they will really need it. I'm kind of surprised at this girls thinking. She brought this guy over but now doesn't seem to be giving it much of a sincere try if she's already complaining about money, it's been less than a year. If this scenario was reversed everyone would jump on the chance to accuse the guy of not being supportive and closed minded, doesn't care about wife, selfish etc. This could also be a power struggle issue. Girls earning more, feels like she has to be in control, guy doesn't feel like enough of a provider and wants to take some of his manly hood back or live up to his traditional role in the marriage, feed his own ego a bit. These two don't seem to be on the same page.
Not necessarily - it can be, if the GIRL chooses to, but she is completely within her Islamic rights to say ‘my money is mine’. The husband however, is not.
Never said it was an ehsan, but the separate account yip yap from guys and girls both annoys me. Have trust, make a budget, break it if needed. Plan your financial future together.
Just to clarify, as a man my job is to provide what the needs are not necessarily the wants…like a reliable, safe, comfortable vehicle. It does not have to be a luxury SUV, but we mutually decide that is what she is getting. I would not still say ehsan..because that’s not how I think, but it’s more than what is a ‘responsibility’ … I do it not because I have to but because I want to.
This is fast becoming another one of those highly misunderstood and abuse concepts in Islam. The whole my money is mine rule is largely there to protect girls' inheritance or any money she brings into the marriage. If a wife chooses to work for 9 hours a day for five days a week and comes home and snaps her fingers saying my money is mine, don't even look at it, don't touch it, don't sniff it (she might just live in hostel be and single). So in that case, I'm sure Islam gives man a complete right to part ways with such woman if he is unhappy with her behaviour. Or worse, he can actually turn around and say no you stay at home, I'll provide for you and you in return be pleased with whatever halal earning I bring home. Or to make things turn into an absolute disaster, he can just take another wife. Islamically he's totally allowed to do that, right? So you really cannot use the term "Islamically" to apply hard and fast rules and say that's it. Every rule in Islam comes with an indepth context and room for flexibility, consultation and compromise.
Marriage in Islam is all about partnership, team work and lasting companionship.
I agree in a healthy relationship, OP's friend wouldn't have to worry about the issues of money. So yes, everything you say applies - there should be equal contribution as long as both partners are happy and agree. But given what OP's said about how this guy has no qadar for the fact his wife is paying for everything for him, yet he is still asking for more, it doesn't seem right. Under those circumstances, why should she continue to let him live like that? He should wake up to his responsibility and start trying to do things for himself - ESPECIALLY if he already has the money, but is refusing to use it!
Never said it was an ehsan, but the separate account yip yap from guys and girls both annoys me. Have trust, make a budget, break it if needed. Plan your financial future together.
Just to clarify, as a man my job is to provide what the needs are not necessarily the wants...like a reliable, safe, comfortable vehicle. It does not have to be a luxury SUV, but we mutually decide that is what she is getting. I would not still say ehsan..because that's not how I think, but it's more than what is a 'responsibility' ... I do it not because I have to but because I want to.
All sound advice and what **should **be happening in a healthy relationship. Both the man and woman have a role in a relationship, and both should be aware of what that is. However, the relationship is only successful when you don't have to think about it, it just **happens - **in the same way you don't think that you are forking out to buy your wife a vehicle, you just do it, similarly OPs friend was not thinking when she chose to financially provide everything for her husband. The problem that I seem to see is that the husband has no sense of his own responsibility, and continues to depend on his wife when he has the ability to do things himself.
OP's friend is obviously the main breadwinner of the family. One of the posts states that the husband just arrived last year. She knowingly married/"imported" (and I really hate that term btw) from abroad That leads us to believe that she knew that she would be the main support for the couple until he passed his exam or got settled and that she would be paying for everything, right?
So again, instead of making this into a my money vs his money standoff, she could just sweetly say "Sorry jaanu, $5,000 nikalna abhi humaray budget main nahin hai"..... if he argues with her about the amount she has in savings (which if she's the sole earner/ supporter of the family, how does he know about?) she should continue to sweetly remind him that those funds are set aside for something else....basically corner him into paying for his exam himself.
And I still believe that there are probably much bigger issues in their marriage than who pays for what
OP's friend is obviously the main breadwinner of the family. One of the posts states that the husband just arrived last year. She knowingly married/"imported" (and I really hate that term btw) from abroad That leads us to believe that she knew that she would be the main support for the couple until he passed his exam or got settled and that she would be paying for everything, right?
So again, instead of making this into a my money vs his money standoff, she could just sweetly say "Sorry jaanu, $5,000 nikalna abhi humaray budget main nahin hai"..... if he argues with her about the amount she has in savings (which if she's the sole earner/ supporter of the family, how does he know about?) she should continue to sweetly remind him that those funds are set aside for something else....basically corner him into paying for his exam himself.
And I still believe that there are probably much bigger issues in their marriage than who pays for what
I completely agree that she knew that she would support him for a while. But again, A) she already paid once, and he failed B) he has like 10K that is sufficient, even if he paid for everything, he would still have half or more left in savings. And when she pays for all living expenses, even his cellphone. What is he saving it up for?
I agree, Bholneka Tarika hai, you cant just say no. Anyway, my addition thing is, say she pays for it again. And she sees him watching tv or something? Its gonna irritate her if he doesnt properly study.
What do you think there other issues are in their marriage? I personnally think, that she is smart if she doesnt pay it again. I feel like alot of people here are like automatically saying that she should cover him completely. But not everyone is exactly the same. Meaning when you see people divorced, its because they didnt set limits in the beginning. I think sometimes people compromise way to much, basically ending up as a door mat, and when they say nomore. there is no way to continue. Hense I say set your limits in the beginning. if someone is going to leave, they can do it after taking whatever value you were offering them.
^ Reverse the roles. Would you tell a guy to do the same thing to his wife? That's what people are saying.
The bigger issues are that they're so combative about everything. He's a control freak, she's a confused feminist, Islamic when it suits her, liberal when it doesn't.
^ Reverse the roles. Would you tell a guy to do the same thing to his wife? That's what people are saying.
The bigger issues are that they're so combative about everything. He's a control freak, she's a confused feminist, Islamic when it suits her, liberal when it doesn't.
Why do you say she is aconfused feminist? I never mentioned anything about Islam, liberal, or feminist.
I say she shouldn't pay, because its going to become a constant issue.
Frankly speaking, even if it was the opposite, if the girl was home since march, with no job, no kids, and the guy paid 2k the first time, I would tell the guy not to pay again. Even with you, if you pay for your wife, and then say u see her day in and out, talking on the phone, watching tv, and not really studing. Im sure you would be like seriously, I paid for this again?
What I meant by other issues in their marriage, from what you have told us so far, it sounds like their is a serious lack of respect for one another and clear discontent. When either partner starts getting irritated and annoyed with the other for not carrying their weight in the household, the wife is not happy with the fact that he has to retake an exam, the husband gets used to being carried by the wife..there to seem deeper issues than just who pays for what. Could it be she's regretting her decision to "import" a husband?
In a situation where one spouse is better settled career wise than the other, and gets irritated when their spouse is just sitting around all day doing nothing as you put it, I don't know...sounds to me like she's just it that into him anymore.
Why is it that he's asking her to pay for it instead of paying himself? According to my humble opinion, a man should not ask his for money unless there's a really good reason for it. Not paying for anything except your own haircuts and stashing your money away while you're wife pays for everything and then you not wanting to spend that money doesn't seem like a good reason to me. I'll give you a good reason to have him pay for it himself though--he'll take it more seriously and work harder for it if it's from his own pocket.
The same people here who tout the mantra that a woman should be happy to be supported and make chai for her husband-types are the same people criticizing her for not paying up?
I think it is the other way around - his behavior on finances is killing the romance creating a deeper and deadly division to the marriage as oppose to this being a symptom of underlying discontent with each other.
My parents totally love each other but I'm sure the day my dad starts asking my mom to pay for everything plus her job plus coming home and doing ALL cleaning and cooking like she already does, I'm sure this would create havoc in the marriage and in our home.
Not to mention id lose all respect for my dad. He busts his behind providing for us, in fact to this day , despite that we kids work, he gives us our weekly allowance and pays our education loans to some degree and has always payed for our living expenses when we were in school.
Even now he pays for my gasoline!!
Why? Not because it's an ego issue for him because he says he loves us and this is how he shows it, by still taking care of us even though we don't need it.
Now this guy is the total opposite he wants the girl to pay for exams and living expenses too EVEN though he has money set aside.
No one is answering the question - why not use some of his own savings? Yet here we are criticizing the girl for not supporting him. Some of that 10K is "our" money too, so he can dip into that.
The answer to the question is simple: He's not using his own savings because he's gotten used to being a "kept man". And I'm sorry, but she took that risk when she signed on to marry someone she knew she'd have to support financialy for an unspecified length of time. It goes back to my original point that there are bigger issues at play here. He's obviously a slacker and now she's regretting placing herself in a situation where she's being taken advantage of .
When you have unequal footing, lack of respect and a clear discrepancy on the vision of the marriage, this is bound to happen. Happy and content people don't squabble over counting pennies and who is paying for what; they work together to come up with a solution.
This has zilch to do with chai and paratha making.
The answer to the question is simple: He's not using his own savings because he's gotten used to being a "kept man". And I'm sorry, but she took that risk when she signed on to marry someone she knew she'd have to support financialy for an unspecified length of time. It goes back to my original point that there are bigger issues at play here. He's obviously a slacker and now she's regretting placing herself in a situation where she's being taken advantage of .
When you have unequal footing, lack of respect and a clear discrepancy on the vision of the marriage, this is bound to happen. Happy and content people don't squabble over counting pennies and who is paying for what; they work together to come up with a solution.
This has zilch to do with chai and paratha making.
If this is the case, I say she should put her foot down and have him pay for it himself.