Re: Ya Ali madad
Brother Ibn Sadique: Please learn Islam and do not accuse people of what they have never said or wrote … For instance, you want to accuse me that I wrote ‘worshiping other than Allah is not shirk’, when ‘I never wrote anywhere that one can worship anyone other than Allah’.
I think you have big problems understanding and knowing Islam, but that maybe because it seems we have two different beliefs (Aqeedah). :)
For you ‘calling’ is ‘worshipping’, and you believe that ‘calling someone other than Allah is Shirk’ … even when caller has neither intention nor belief that one the person is calling is deity (god = illah).
Worse is that, you yourself must be calling someone other than Allah for your needs from your birth … calling your mother for food and comfort when you were born and later calling others in your daily life for one thing or another … and that you know too … so to accommodate and live with your fabricated belief, you take help and refuge in your second belief.
Your second belief is that, when a person leaves this world (Nafs dies), Ruh of that person dies too, hence that person cannot hear, cannot see, cannot feel, cannot reply, cannot do anything, cannot help, nor can pray for anyone … hence your ‘call someone other than Allah being Shirk’ becomes ‘call someone other than Allah who has died is Shrik’.
As for Muslims, we believe that those who pass away, they move (inteqal) from this world to world behind curtain (Alam-e-Barzakh), and that they are as much alive as one living in this world, with exception that their test in this world ends. Thus, those who passed away, they can hear, see, feel, reply, give dua, and can help or do things whatever Allah permits them.
For us Muslims, calling someone for help or whatever, be that person alive with us or has passed away is not worshiping that person neither it is Shrik. Rather, it is recognition that there is life after death and a person that passed away can do anything with permission of Allah (if that person has permission of Allah).
For us Muslims, shirk and worship depends on our beliefs and intentions … and that means, until we do not call someone (be that someone alive or passed away) with belief that the person is Deity (has his own power as god to fulfil anything) then that is not worship nor shirk.
Now, if your beliefs became same as what we Muslims believe … that death is just ‘going behind curtain’ … or behind ‘pardah’ … where a person moves from ‘world of test’ to ‘world behind curtain’, then it would be easy for you to understand what I am saying.
Please do not think that from above statement I mean you are not Muslim. What I am saying is that, beliefs of sect you belong to is different then we Muslims (or sect we and majority of other Muslims belong to). I am putting down the beliefs of us Muslims, so that you can see the difference and also find answers to the questions you raised. I can further explain with references, but I am not sure you would accept our beliefs (Aqeedah), hence me writing further would be beating the bush, so my rest of the post is for you (to know our beliefs) as well as for anyone who may have confusion regarding the matter we believe, that I wrote earlier.
Please read carefully (actually, I answered similar query few years back, and fortunately I found some of those material, so posting them here):
As Muslim, it is our belief (Aqeedah) that we cannot call anyone other than Allah for help 'with belief' that the person could give ‘help’ on their own account independent of Allah. All source of help a person receives originates from Allah, and whoever one calls are intermediary (Zariya), who can do whatever only with permission of Allah. This is true for us, be the person we call is alive or passed away (no difference between the two).
In Islam, Allah has told Muslims to give to other Muslims who are in need, and there is nowhere Allah has said that those who are in need should not ask others for help or ask others for whatever they need.
Actually, for a Muslim to help needy if they can, give to needy if they have anything, plus give dua to all in abundance is part of Islam ... and similarly for needy Muslims to ask others if they need anything and take from them if given is part of Islam, as these are the ways of Allah and whoever do not believe on this asking/giving is not Muslim (Zakat is fard, and process of Zakat itself is process of giving by those who have and taking by those who need).
Thus, asking others for help when in need, and asking others for dua is character of Muslims. Only fraun, Namrood, Iblis, follower of Iblis, people with similar character as Iblis, people who are under the influence of Iblis, people who are so proud of themselves that to ask others hurt their ego, or people who are so miser that giving to needy hurt them, would disagree with that (disagreeing with this process is disagreeing with Zakat and many things Islam promotes).
Anyhow, requirement of asking is that, whenever asking,** belief** of one should be that in the end, it is Allah who provides and those who are asked can be only intermediaries (Zariya).
Similarly, requirement of giving (in whatever form and shape) is that the giver should believe that whatever they have is gift from Allah and it is their duty to help others with what they have, as guardian of what Allah has given them.
This belief is true regardless of the person asking someone a glass of water, wages for work, medical treatment, or dua ... that is, those who give glass of water, wage for work, medical treatment, or dua, they are only intermediaries (Zariyas) and in reality the provider is Allah.
As for death, our Aqeedah is that, there is no such thing in Islam that a person dies spiritually even though that person may have died physically. Thus, asking from a person who died physically is same as asking a person who is living physically, because in the end, both are helpless in helping others on their own account and could only become go-in-between (Zariya) if Allah wants to, as help and provisions are always from Allah.
Further, to provide help or provisions through someone, regardless of them being physically Alive or not, is no big deal for Allah, as when/if Allah wants to, a person becomes helpful, regardless of that person is physically alive or not (and anyone who do not believe that Allah could do that even if Allah wants to, than that person cannot be a Muslim).
Allah has made material world a place where each of his creation depends on other of Allah’s creations for everything. We can see that when baby is born (humans or animals), as from the time of birth that baby depends on another of Allah’s creation (usually Mother for food, comfort and protection). That obviously does not mean the one providing is God of one provided, or taking help from other is accepting other as God, but it only means that one accepts the way Allah has created this material world, and whoever does not accept this as way of Allah and revolts and misguide others against this way of Allah, are friend of Shaitan.
Even when it comes to guidance of human beings, Allah never sent obvious guidance directly to individuals rather Allah has sent guidance through his selected guides as intermediaries (Prophets and other humans close to Allah or Wali-Allah), and this is the way of Allah in this material world.
This is especially true for humans as we are going through test of ‘Iman on unseen’, so belief on Allah and his providing provisions has to be unseen. Shaitan has always misguided humans making them revolt against Prophets and Wali-Allahs (friends of Allah) by making his followers demeaning and abusing people close to Allah, as Iblis himself tried to demean and abuse Allah by not respecting Allah’s raising of Adam (AS) status making Adam (AS) worthy of Sajdah-e-tazeem. Shaitan continuously prompt humans that they are so close to Allah that they should expect guidance and hearing from Allah directly ... though it does not mean that it is not possible for Allah, but that is not way Allah adopted for this material world where Allah is testing his creations. These misguided humans full of ego do not even realise that all guidance ever came to them is through intermediaries (Prophets, parents, guardians, Saints, elders, scholars, etc) and thus without realisation, fall for Shaitan’s ploy.
For those, who believe that they are so close to Allah that they should ask and expect everything from Allah directly and that there should be no intermediaries in between, then they should ask Allah to send them Quran as guidance directly too, rejecting anything Allah sent to them indirectly through intermediaries. Reason is simple.
Quran and all components of Islam that Allah sent to Prophet (SAW) is through Jabrael (AS) as intermediary between him and Prophet (SAW) who passed Quran and components of Islam to people of his time. Muslims of today got Quran and all components of Islam through generations of Muslims between them and prophet (SAW). So neither Muslims nor Prophet (SAW) got Quran and components of Islam directly from Allah … though that does not mean Allah could not have done that … and fact is that Prophet (SAW) always had direct contact with Allah, though for worldly purpose, this is how things happened … Jabrael (AS) was shown as intermediary).
Anyhow, if any Muslim would do that (reject Quran and expect direct message from Allah for his guidance), than they would find that Allah would never send them Quran or any message directly, nor Allah would send Angel telling them anything about guidance, but by just desiring such, these misguided Muslims would only end up as Kafir with end in Jahannum.
Asking Allah directly: It is true that Allah has told Muslims to ask him only (but have never used the word ‘directly’). Actually, asking Allah for help is to do with 'in belief sense', not 'in literal sense' ... as I wrote earlier, that when asking anyone, belief should be that actual source who provides is Allah and whoever one is asking is just intermediary whom Allah has or may have bestowed ability to provide. If that asking (to ask Allah) was in ‘literally sense and directly’ than a believer could not even ask anything from anyone, including a glass of water from his wife/children, wages from his employer, medical treatment from his doctor, dua from any person, etc.
Well, if asking was in literal sense than Prophets (AS) could not have even asked kuffars to accept Islam, rather Prophet (AS) would have asked Allah to make Kuffars accept Islam. Actual Islamic belief is that in the end it is Allah who gives guidance, but still Prophet (AS) gives guidance and asks Kuffars to receive guidance from him.
One could find verses in Quran that says ‘those who help Prophet (SAW) ....’ or that ‘those who help Allah’… so, one should think. In this material world Allah do not help directly but helps through intermediaries, else one would be denying not only common sense, historical facts, but would be making all Prophets Mushrik (those who asked help from people other than Allah), would be making Allah Mushrik (as Allah asked people in Quran to help Prophet and Allah too), and would be denying many ayahs of Quran, including following ayahs, so read carefully the ayahs and think:
For instance: Ayah (7:157) ... where Allah asking human to help Prophet (SAW) ... So, if 'direct help only from Allah' is true than where is that direct help gone, instead here it is Allah telling Muslims to help Prophets (AS), how come?
Surah 7, ayah 157: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
Ayah (3:124) … Allah is telling Muslims that he did not helped directly, but his help came through 3000 angels. So, if anyone thinks that Allah help directly, then why Angels?
Surah 3, ayah 124: Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?
Ayah (4:75): Allah is telling people that why not help those Men, women and children who cry: ‘Raise for us from thee one who protect and help’ (or asking Allah to raise people who protect and help them). Why Allah is saying that ‘people asking to raise from thee (Allah) one who protects and help, why not ask Allah to protect and help directly?’
Surah 4, ayah 75: And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Ayah (8:72): Allah telling Muslims that it is their duty to help other Muslims? How come? If Allah helps directly than shouldn’t it be that Allah should help directly and not ask people to help?
Surah 8, ayah 72: Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.
Ayah (22:40) Allah mentions that he repel some men by means of others (made one group of men intermediaries to repel other group and do not repel them directly) … and talk about people helping cause of Allah, shows that Allah uses intermediaries. Is Allah using means to provide or help, doing shirk too?
Just think, if Allah helps directly and there are no intermediaries then how come Allah used one men against other as well as Allah is talking about people helping Allah’s cause?
Actually, Allah says in ayah below that if he has not used one group of men to repel other group of men than places where Allah is worshipped would have got pulled down (as even then Allah would not have intervened directly) ... shows that in this world Allah do not interfere directly but use intermediaries to do whatever he wants.
Surah 22, ayah 40: Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty -
Ayah (47:7) Allah is directly asking people to help Allah (is Allah doing shirk, I mean according to you?). So, if Allah helps directly and no one can help anyone ... then how come Allah is telling people to help him (is that shirk asking help from believers?).
Surah 47, ayah 7: O ye who believe! If ye help Allah, He will help you and will make your foothold firm.
One might ask why there are no obvious ayahs in Quran where Allah clearly says that in this world, Allah only (in most cases) uses intermediaries. Also, why there are no clear ayahs about making intermediaries those who died. Reason is that, most ayahs in Quran are circumstantial, that means, people asked or something happened, and ayah came. At the time prophet (SAW) was amongst people, so no need to ask anyone, as the most closes person to Allah was there. People also did not asked such question, or raised issue, as most closes person to Allah was with them.
Anyhow, Allah says in Quran that if one wants to ask Allah for forgiveness, one should better ask prophet (SAW) and his asking would get accepted without question. Here is the ayah:
Surah 4, ayah 64:We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto** thee**** and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the ***Messenger had asked forgiveness for them*, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
From above ayahs it is obvious that Allah wants people to use Prophet (SAW) as intermediary when Asking forgiveness from Allah, and also make Prophet (SAW) judge,
at other place, Allah says that what prophet (SAW) did is actually, was done by Allah himself.
Surah 8, ayah 17: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).
In above ayah, Allah is telling Muslims (believers) that in war when they slew Kuffars, it was not them but Allah … and when Prophet (SAW) threw dust on kuffars it was not Prophet (SAW) but Allah …Such is obvious reference that when Allah in this world wants anything to happen, he gets that happen through the hands of his creations as intermediaries.
I know that misguided (or people with wahabi believe) would say that these ayahs are valid when Prophet (SAW) was alive, but we Muslims believe that these ayahs are valid at all time until judgment day … and that asking forgiveness making Prophet (SAW) as intermediary is also valid until judgment day, and that death of a person does not change anything … because person is always there, only his nafs dies (detaching the person from material world of test).
As far as acts of earlier Muslims, there are numerous hadiths where people asked from Prophet (SAW) as intermediaries for sorting out worldly problems, even after the death of Prophet (SAW). Do some search and you would find them.
One should know that only Kafirs and Mushriks believe that God literally comes down on earth and help them directly ... like Kali Mai, Vishnu, Sunny, etc in Hindu beliefs getting born or materialising on earth (as autaar) to help them directly fighting evils, injustices or poverty. Greeks had many Gods and Goddesses like ‘Hercules’ coming down on earth to fight evil and help them directly. In case of Christians it is Isa (AS) who was born on earth to help them directly by washing their sins.
Actually, many Kuffars thinks that God or Gods help them directly. It is this thinking that corrupted most religion Allah sent. Whenever believers started thinking that ‘Allah helps them directly’, with time they start considering whoever help them is God … and thus they become Kafir with numerous gods. Now it seems new breed are born amongst Muslims like Wahabis and Kharjees who believe the same that Allah literally help them directly and not through intermediaries.
