Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

ImranJaff shaib, If Prophet Muhammad (SWW) is died then whom you are sending Salam everyday in ‘Dorod Sharif’? (Salam is only for alive peoples not for dead ones) don’t tell me that you don’t send Salam to Prophet Muhamad everyday in your daily prayers.

Allah sends His Salah on the Prophet Muhammad), and also His angels (do so). Oh you who believe! Send your Salah (i..e. ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad) and greet him with the Islamic way of greeting (i.e. as-Salaam Alaykum, which means peace be upon you)" (33:56)

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Way to go Y2K! this is exactly what i wanted to convey but wondered if I should even bother considering the fact that some ppl will never stop arguing even if the truth stares them in the face. Some of them argue just for the sake of argument. i believe ignorance(jahaalat) is not lack of knowledge. Ignorance is obstinacy,rigidity,inflexiblity to see another point of view.

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

so u believe that the Prophet (saw) is not dead???

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Half of the paki generation has concept that Hazrat mohammad(p.b.u.h.)is alive.Can u explain how ? angels are the one who are giving RASUL ALLAH (P.BU.H.) message about darood he cannot hear himself.Because we only say "YA ALLAH"that means ALLAH talla is here and listening to us.but we cannot say "YA MOHAMMAD"because he is not alive and we can only say it in one condition condition when we go to roza-e-rasooll(p.b.u.h.)because hazrat MOHAMMAD(P.B.U.H.)IS THEIR AND THEY CAN HEAR US.The word "ya"means prescense and we cannot say it accept to ALLAH TALA.
Agar woh zinda hian to un ke pass malak-al-maut kiyoon ayaa thaa?and woh qabar mein her baat sun sakte hain to hamein jawab kiyoon nahi dete?
HAZRAT MOHAMMAD(P.B.U.H.) SIRF EIK INSAAN THEY JAISE TAMAAM ANBIA INSAAN THEY AUR UNHAIN DUNYAWI MAUT AAII HIA .

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk

Yes, Muhammad e Mustafa :saw: is not dead if for a minute we suppose that he is not alive then I don’t find a good reason to calling his name in Azan & Aqamat. In Azan & Aqamat every single Muslim of this world call Prophet :saw: name.

Ash-hadu anna Muhammadur rasūlullāh :saw:

Bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.

If he is not alive then why Muslim bear witness that Muhammad :saw: IS the Messenger of God
NOT
Muhammad WAS the Messenger of God.

If anyone of you think that he is not alive then first change the Azan and bear witness that he was the Messenger of Allah otherwise accept it HE (:saw:) is alive

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

We are going off-topic here...

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Nahi Janab we are on the track.

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged

Ok janab.

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

** “Muhammad is a man, but not like men;
He is an emerald, and others mere stone.”**

** The belief (Aqidah) of the mainstream Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah is that our beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and all the other Prophets are alive in their graves.**

This life is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah), and not just a spiritual one with the soul (barzakhiyyah), as the latter is common for all the people. They are usually involved in performing prayer and worshiping Allah (out of their own free choice without it being obligatory on them), and we can normally not see or feel them.

This is the Aqidah held by the Sunni Muslims throughout the ages, and many books in Arabic have been written on this subject. The great Imam Suyuti (Allah have mercy on him) compiled a whole work on this subject titled ‘Inba al-Azkiya bi Hayat al-Anbiya’ (Informing the intelligent regarding the living of the Prophets), in which he quoted many evidences in support of this belief. Similarly, other scholars such as: Imam al-Bayhaqi, Imam Abdul Wahhab al-Sha’rani and Imam Ibn al-Qayyim in his book ‘al-Ruh’ (The Soul) have also written and gathered evidences with regards to this.

Evidences on the prophets remaining alive in their graves:

There are many evidences in the Qur’an, Hadith and sayings of the predecessors regarding the prophets remaining alive after death. Some are reproduced here:

** 1) Allah Most High says:**

“And Question thou our Messengers whom we sent before you. Did we appoint any deities other that Allah, Most gracious, to be worshiped”? (Surah al-Zukhruf, 45).

Many commentators have stated in their respective exegeses of the Holy Qur’an that the living of the Prophets can be proved from this verse (See: Durr al-Manthur of Suyuti, Ruh al-Ma’ani by al-Alusi and others).

** 2) Allah Most High says:**

“And say not of those who are slain (martyred) in the way of Allah, “they are dead”, nay, they are living, though you perceive it not” (Surah al-Baqarah, 154).

Regarding this verse, the great Hadith expert (hafidh), Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) states in his monumental commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, ‘Fath al-Bari’:

“When the living of the martyrs is proven from the text of the Qur’an, then this is also proven from a analogical point of view. And the Prophets are superior then the martyrs” (Fath al-Bari, 6/379).

** 3) Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates:**

“On the night of Isra, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by the grave of Sayyiduna Musa (Allah bless him), and found him praying in his grave” (Recorded by Imam Muslim in his Sahih, and others).

** 4) Anas ibn Malik narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wsallam) said:**

“The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat” (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi in his ‘Hayat al-Anbiya’ and Abu Ya’la in his Musnad).

The above Hadith has been authenticated by many Hadith scholars, such as: Ibn Hajar, al-Haythami, Ali al-Qari, al-Munawi, al-Shawkani and others.

** 5) Aws ibn Aws narrates the Messenger of Allah as saying:**

"Send salutations in abundance on me on Friday, as your sending salutations are presented to me. The Companions inquired: "How is it possible that you receive our salutations when your body will have been decayed? The Messenger of Allah said: “Verily Allah has made forbidden on the earth that it eats the body of the Prophets” (Recorded by Abu Dawud, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Darami and others, and authenticated by many, such as Ibn al-Qayyim).

** 6) Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) Narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Peace and blessing be upon him) said:**

“None of you greets me except that Allah returns my soul on me until I return his greeting” (Musnad Ahmad, 2/527 and Abu Dawud, 1/279).

** 7) Anas ibn Malik narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
**
“The Prophets are not kept in their graves for more then forty nights, but they remain worshiping Allah until the trumpet will be blown” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).

Due to the fact that there are many narrations regarding this (of which we have only reproduced a few, as an example), Imam Suyuti is of the view that these narrations have reached the level of certainty (tawatur).

** 8) The great Hadith Imam, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani states:**

“Death will never come to the Blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in his grave, but he will remain alive, due to the fact that the Prophets remain alive in their graves” (Fath al-Bari, 17/22).

** 9) Imam al-Subki states:**

“It is from our beliefs that the Prophets are alive in their graves”. (Tabqat al-Shafi’iyya al-Kubra, 6/266).

** 10) The great Hanafi jurist, Ibn Abidin says:**

“The Prophets are alive in their graves, as proven from the Hadith” (Rasa’il of Ibn Abidin, 2/203).

** 11) Imam al-Shawkani (whom the Salafis normally refer to) states:**

"The Prophet (Peace and blessing be upon him) is alive in his grave, as has been established in the Hadith “The Prophets are alive in their graves”. (See: Nayl al-Awtar, 5/101).

** 12) Also, one of the major incidents that prove this, is the incident of Me’raj (Ascension of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) to the heavens), where he met and conversed with many Prophets. He also led them in prayer in Masjid al-Aqsa.**

The above evidences from the Qur’an, Hadith and the sayings of the predecessors are sufficient to prove the fact that the Prophets remain alive in their graves after they pass away from this world. There are many other evidences which we have not mentioned here, due to the fear of prolonging
our discussion.

** This is the reason why this Aqidah has been held by the mainstream Sunni scholars throughout the eras. It is only recently that some people have objected to this view.**

For more details on this subject, one may refer to Imam Suyuti’s ‘al-Inba’ and Imam al-Bayhaqi’s ‘Hayat al-Anbiya’.

** May Allah guide us all to the straight path (Ameen).**

And Allah knows best
Muhammad ibn Adam
www.sunnipath.com

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged

[quote=cricketplaya]
Bro, you are misunderstanding the whole concept of tawassul.

from Mufti Ebrahim Desai (askimam.org):

Tawassul (to seek a medium) is proven from Qur’an and Hadith. Allah
Ta’ala says, ‘O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek Waseela to Him.’
Hadhrat Umar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) sought rain during drought through the
Waseela of the Prophet’s Uncle. However, due to people trespassing the
limits of Waseela and there is fear of committing Shirk, it is advisable to
abstain from Tawassul. Any permissible act which may lead to Shirk also
becomes prohibited.

I**t is clear and cut. There is no shirk involved. **

**We are not saying that asking Allah directly is bad or should be avoided, we are just saying on the matter of tawassul that it is permissible. **

Do you understand bro?

Also, please read the following, it is of great benefit to all!

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Tawassul (using intermediaries in supplication to Allah Most High) through the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), Awliya and righteous believers is permitted, rather recommended according to the four schools of Sunni Islamic law.

This has been the mainstream belief held by scholars of this Ummah throughout the eras. The Salaf (predecessors) from the earliest generations had this understanding and this has been the way of the four Sunni Madhhabs in Fiqh.

The meaning of Tawassul is: To ask Allah Almighty through the medium and intercession of another person. For example, one says: “O Allah! I ask forgiveness for my sins through the Wasila (intercession) of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace)”.

Tawassul can be carried out through one’s own righteous deeds, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), righteous people who have passed away and those who are still alive. All these types of Tawassul are permitted and acceptable.

The permissibility of Tawassul is proven from the Qur’an, Sunnah, continued practice of the Ummah and reason.

Some of the proofs on the validity of Tawassul:

1) Allah Most High says:

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek a means (wasila) to him” (Surah al-Ma’ida, V: 35)

The word “Wasila” (a means of approach) in its general indication includes Tawassul (intercession) by persons, and through actions.

2) Allah Almighty says:

“If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you (O Muhammad, Allah bless him & give him peace) and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger of Allah had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed forgiving and Most Merciful”. (Surah al-Nisa, V: 64)

These two verses are clear on the permissibility and recommendation of Tawassul. The distinction made by some, between the living and the dead in this matter only comes from one who believes in the perishing of souls upon death, which would lead to denying resurrection.

Also, when one uses Tawassul in supplication, one does not ask and seek from other than Allah Almighty. Only the high position, status and rank of the person through whom Wasila is carried out is used as intercession. In other words, the servant is saying: “O Allah! This certain Prophet or servant of yours is very close to you. I do not possess any good deeds, but I have love for the pious. O Allah! Pardon me and forgive my sins due to this love and connection I have with this pious servant of yours”.

Now, every person with a sound mind will determine that there is no reason to distinguish and differentiate between the living and the dead. This is the reason why scholars such as Imam Subki, Hafidh Ibn Kathir, Imam an-Nawawi (Allah have mercy on them all) and many others have declared the permissibility of Tawassul through the righteous, whether alive or passed away to the Mercy of Allah.

  1. Imam al-Tirmidhi (Allah have Mercy on him) and others relate from Uthman ibn Hunaif (Allah be pleased with him):

“A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: “I’ve been afflicted in my eyesight, so pray to Allah for me”. The Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Go perform ablution (Wudu), perform two Rak’at Salat and then say: “O Allah! I ask you and turn to you through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I seek your intercession with my lord for the return of my eyesight, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah! Grant him intercession for me”. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) then said: “and if there is some other need, do the same”. (Recorded by Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa’i, Tabrani and others, with a sound chain of narrators).

The express content of this Hadith proves the legal validity of Tawassul through a living person. It implicitly proves the validity of Tawassul through a deceased person, as Tawassul through a living or dead person is not through a physical body or through life or death, rather, through the positive meaning attached to the person in both life and death.

  1. Moreover, Imam Tabrani relates in his al-Mu’jam al-Kabir reporting from the same Uthman ibn Hunaif (Allah be pleased with him) that a person repeatedly visited him concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him. The man met his son and complained to him about the matter- this was after the death of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and after the eras of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr and Sayyiduna Umar (Allah be pleased with them)- so Uthman (who collected Hadith and was from the learned) said : “Go to the place of Wudu, then come to the Masjid, perform two Rak’ats and then say : “O Allah!, I ask you and turn to you through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I turn through you to my lord, that He fulfil my need”… until the end of the Hadith.

This is an explicit and clear text from a Companion (sahabi) proving the legal validity of Tawassul through the dead. The Hadith has been classed as authentic (Sahih) by al-Bayhaqi, Mundhiri, al-Haythami and many others.

  1. In the Hadith recorded by Imam al-Bukhari and others, the Companion Umar (Allah be pleased with him) made Tawassul through the uncle of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), Sayyiduna Abbas (Allah be pleased with him), in asking Allah Almighty for rain at the time of drought.

These and many other Ahadith are clear on the permissibility and validity of Tawassul. This is the reason why the great traditional Sunni scholars have held this belief throughout the ages. Even in the present era, most of the Muslims who belong to the Ahl al-Sunnah Wa al-Jama’ah in most parts of the world have this belief.

Many books in Arabic and other languages have been written in refutation of those who regard Tawassul to be Shirk. Scholars from Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, Emirates, India, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia itself have rejected the position held by the minority -so called- Salafi sect.

As far as some of the scholars of the Haramayn are concerned, there views in matters of Aqida are generally from the blind following of Imam Ibn Taymiyya… The Imam, despite having great knowledge, in many issues chose a path which was different from the path of the majority of the Ummah, and the Scholars by and large did not accept his views.

At the same time, one should be precautious in not having any wrong belief in Aqidah. There should be the conviction that Allah Almighty alone has influence over everything, outwardly and inwardly. Also, one should not have the belief that the supplication (Dua) is not accepted without Tawassul. This is the real Tawhid.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK**
dear brother
]ALLAH bless you,your post has a reference to Al-Maida, Ayath # 35. which contain the word"Waseela" . on the basis of this word, people argue about importance of waseela which is quite surprising. i have study the different explanations, no one support this ayath in this regard to which you reffered it.hazrat Mododi explain this Ayath as seek the " Qurb" by Taqwa not by something else.the most elaboration is in the Ibne Kaseer which i am attatching


**Al-Maid, Ayath35O ye who believe! do your duty to Allah seek the means of approach unto Him and strive with might and main in His cause: that ye may prosper.
taqwa here too might be translated “fear of Allah”, but the very next clause shows that “fear of Allah” does not mean “fear” in the ordinary sense, which would make you avoid the object of fear. On the contrary the “fear of Allah” is the intense desire to avoid everything that is against His Will and Law. It is in fact duty to Allah, for we are told to seek ardently the means by which we may approach Him, and that can only be done by striving with might and main for His cause.

see some Hateeth which shows the real method of Dua
Hadith Qudsi 35
Our Lord (glorified and exalted be He) descends each night to the earth’s sky when there remains the final third of the night, and He says: Who is saying a prayer to Me that I may answer it? Who is asking something of Me that I may give it him? Who is asking forgiveness of Me that I may forgive him? And thus He continues till [the light of] dawn shines.
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith
Hadith 8.350 Narrated by Anas

Allah’s Apostle said, "When anyone of you appeal to Allah for something, he should ask with determination and should not say, ‘O Allah, if You wish, give me,’ for nobody can force Allah to do something against His Will.
regards

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Maddad Maddad Maddad, Maddad Ya RasoolAllah...Tawassul was accepted as sound during the time of the Prophet (sallal lahu alaihi wassalm). it was accepted by his successors and the generations of scholars that followed. Until one man, Abdul Wahhab who so arrogantly said that he was more knowledgeable than all the scholars and sahabis that came before him, declared it to be shirk. I take the word of the Prophet (sallal lahu alaihi wasallam), the sahabis, and the scholars that followed over the word of Abdul Wahhab and his followers. anyone who believes its shirk, is going against the teachings of our Rasul (sallal lahu alaihi wasallam) and the way of his followers and the way of the scholars that followed. They're nothing but biddatis.

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

^^
Saying Ya Muhammed Madad s.a.w is not tawassul but its shirk.
Tawassul is something like you say "Oh Allah accepet my dua,etc, through your beloved Prophet".
When you say Ya Muhamed Madad, you are directly asking Prophet s.a.w which is not allowed.

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Ya Phuppa Jan Madad

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

so you are saying here you Phuppa is equal to Rasool Allah (Nauzubillah)

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

You didn’t listen Qawalli
Bhur do Jholi Merri Ya Muhammad
This particular Qawalli has been broadcasting on Pakistan Television from decades but why no body claim that it is Shirk before but since the Tablian came into existence every thing is Shirk and Bidat now.

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

No I am not saying that. let me jog your memory. I asked which of the following is accurate (I have not seen agreement on one yet)

let me clarify to what i said

I am thinking of 4 scenarios here

  1. one can not ask anyone for help except allah- so no tawassul
  2. tawassul limited to the prophet
  3. tawassul limited to the prophet and some other major figures like Hazrat Ali
  4. tawassul thru any righteous person

if it is #4, then my nana jan, dadi amma, phuppa jan, whoever I think was a righteous person can work.

if it is #1, then i cant do ya ‘anybody’ but just ya allah

if it is #2 then it is just the prophet, and hazrat ali, hazrat hasan hazrat hussein can not be used

or it is #3.

I see no answers…do you

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

Shakeel bhai, nobody is denying the power of direct dua to Allah. It is encouraged.
The discussion here is on the subject of tawassul

1- is it shirk
2- it is permissible

so after reading many sources I have come to the conclusion that the view of Alh-e-Sunnah is that Tawassul is allowed as long as you are not asking directly to that person.

The debate is NOT to encourage tawassul, it is solely about following the correct and accurate aqidah inshAllah.

Now, Tawassul is not like saying "Ya rasulullah madad" this falls under shirk.
Why? Because you are asking a Prophet for help which is just a blunt act of shirk. If you can't ask the Prophet(s) for help then obviously you cannot ask your parents, grandparents, uncles..etc for help> It is shirk.

Now tawassul is saying that it is permissible to make dua to the Prophet(s) or to a righeous person and ask him to make dua to Allah for me. This is NOT shirk.

I hope everyone now understands the difference. There is A BIG difference.

Fraudia bhai, #4 is in my opinion (through understanding all sources) is correct IF you are NOT directly asking "Dadi jaan madad karo". That's shirk remember.

Clear?

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

O btw, qawali... lol how is that part of Islam?

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

dont u read?

namaz, rozah ,zakat, hajj and qawaali

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged

ur a fraud! :halo:

Re: Ya Ali Madad or A Shirk - Ask Allah (SWT) directly or it equates to shirk (merged)

u caught me... its actually

niyaz/sabeel/langar , halva manda, qawali, minat/manat and taveez

PS: and some charas and afeem